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#Post#: 10286--------------------------------------------------
Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: Kerry Date: February 3, 2015, 6:16 am
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I realize the contexts are different; but these two passages
still perplex me.
John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye
shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye
cannot come; so now I say to you.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not
so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,
and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be
also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
#Post#: 10287--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: HOLLAND Date: February 3, 2015, 7:12 am
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Kerry, I think that the passages refers to the possibility of
God's salvation of those that we may not accept and condemn by
reasons of our culture and tradition. Human perception of God's
working is so very limited that human groupings are arranged in
some many mansion-like gatherings in the household of God. The
passages do not to me indicate a universal salvation but a
loving grace that is wider than what we can imagine. I believe
I have God's Spirit in all this.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 10290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: Kerry Date: February 3, 2015, 7:27 am
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Maybe I should have been more explicit, or perhaps I'm not
understanding you. The thing that confuses me is that first
Jesus says he's going to a place where his disciples can't go,
and then he says later he's going to prepare a place for them.
I do agree about differences in culture affecting the "layout"
of Heaven. I think to a large degree, those differences were
mean to be since variety is the spice of life. I figure there
are 12 major divisions just as the 12 tribes were camped around
the Tabernacle and later as the Land of Promise was divided
among them.
#Post#: 10294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: HOLLAND Date: February 3, 2015, 1:03 pm
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I believe, Kerry, that the place where Jesus says his disciples
cannot go is the place after death. I believe that the
disciples cannot go to that place until they are called there by
their death. I interpret the place referred to as the
"mansions" of the following verses. I do not draw a distinction
between the two places, between the place "where they cannot go"
from the "many mansions". What are your thoughts on this
passage?
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 10295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: Kerry Date: February 3, 2015, 10:40 pm
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I don't have any firm ideas about it, Holland. Ideas swirl
around in my mind, and I have not come to a conclusion, not
even a tentative conclusion.
I believe that perhaps I'm misreading one, thus possibly
creating a contradiction in my mind that wouldn't exist if I had
the right understanding. When the Scriptures seem to
contradict themselves in my mind, I think it may be an
opportunity to correct myself. Yes, sometimes I do conclude
that someone mis-copied a text, or it is a forgery; but I am
always reluctant to go in that direction without clear evidence
of tinkering with the text. With this problem, both passages
seem authentic to me. I also can't think of a reason anyone
would tinker with the texts.
[quote]I believe that the disciples cannot go to that place
until they are called there by their death.[/quote]
They could go somewhere Jesus had prepared for them after
death? Yes, I can see that and agree; but it seems to me there
is something deeper here. I agree that death would open doors
for the disciples so they could go somewhere Jesus went after he
died; but I can't read what Jesus said to the Jews the same way
-- and his statement is that he's saying to the disciples what
he had said to the Jews.
? ? ?
#Post#: 10297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: HOLLAND Date: February 4, 2015, 7:08 am
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It is interesting how much in Biblical interpretation comes out
of our history and culture, and human pride, instead of the
Spirit. It is good that we have to draw back sometimes and ask
ourselves if what we think that a passage in Scripture may mean
at a given point is really what the Spirit draws us unto. I am
always struck at how we are so far from God. This seems to be
the case, even for those great spiritual writers who had walked
very close to God. Always when we draw close to God, there is
the intimacy, the joy, the closeness, but, yet again, the
sensing of that great gulf between God and man. God preserves
his transcendence and so we are enveloped in mystery.
May God be praised and we walk in his peace!
#Post#: 10302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: George Date: February 4, 2015, 5:31 pm
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Hello all,
If Jesus is referring to the place after death, could this be
indication that Jesus would not dye on the cross? Confirmation
would come when Jesus tells Mary after the elleged crucifixion
"do not touch me, for I have not yet accented unto my Father"?
#Post#: 10303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: Kerry Date: February 4, 2015, 11:54 pm
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Hi George,
You may be onto something. Jesus went away twice. He went
somewhere after the crucifixion and then he left again. I'm
not sure how whether he died plays into it. The thing is that he
left twice; and if we count Pentecost as a return, he came back
twice.
I'm short on time; but I also want to think more about this. I
have a feeling it has something to do with the Ascension that
makes the places he went different. Could be, could be.
#Post#: 11077--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: CinderAsh Date: June 26, 2015, 6:14 am
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Perhaps Jesus is going back to being God not as a man. Nobody
can go there in that trinity aspect. The prepared place is the
resurrected state at which Jesus is the first born and the
disciples will have their place of order.
#Post#: 11078--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone have ideas about these two passages?
By: HOLLAND Date: June 26, 2015, 6:36 am
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^^Hello Alan! Good to see you!
Or in other words . . . perhaps the passage can refer to a
subsuming into the Trinity by Jesus (with his resurrected flesh)
that those of his Body, the ekklesia are not able to enter unto
. . .
Peace be with you!
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