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#Post#: 10056--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: Brad Date: January 12, 2015, 11:00 pm
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[quote author=meshak link=topic=960.msg10049#msg10049
date=1421085565]
Ok, that's your faith. I am just fine with Jesus with me.
When I evangelize in Okinawa, I tell them that they don't have
to attend the church to be God's children.
[/quote]
I think that since Jesus and his disciples were all baptized in
water AND follow Jesus's teachings, so should we!
#Post#: 10060--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: meshak Date: January 12, 2015, 11:44 pm
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[quote author=Brad link=topic=960.msg10056#msg10056
date=1421125213]
I think that since Jesus and his disciples were all baptized in
water AND follow Jesus's teachings, so should we!
[/quote]
Overall Jesus' teachings do not harmonize with your comment.
There are too many confused Christianity. Too many
denominations. Why we should tell the world to go to the church
to be baptized? We are all so confused Christian world as a
whole.
In my evangelism, I tell people you don't have to attend the
church to be God's children.
#Post#: 10071--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: Brad Date: January 13, 2015, 10:33 am
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[quote author=meshak link=topic=960.msg10060#msg10060
date=1421127842]
Overall Jesus' teachings do not harmonize with your comment.
[/quote]
Jesus's teaching indeed does harmonize with with my comment.
If Jesus Himself was baptized, though He had no need to do so,
then He did it as an EXAMPLE for us to follow, submitting
himself to John to be baptized. If you refuse to be baptized
or teach others they dont need to be baptized, then you are
picking and choosing what you want to follow in Jesus's
teaching. It is not required for salvation, but those
refusing to do so are refusing to do what Christ wanted us to
do.
#Post#: 10075--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: meshak Date: January 13, 2015, 12:59 pm
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[quote author=Brad link=topic=960.msg10071#msg10071
date=1421166838]
Jesus's teaching indeed does harmonize with with my comment.
[/quote]
You are disregarding what is going on with the churches. They
are nothing but chaos.
Why would you send people to chaotic churches and make them
confused?
You cannot straiten out yourself, much less others.
#Post#: 10087--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: Brad Date: January 13, 2015, 10:24 pm
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[quote author=meshak link=topic=960.msg10075#msg10075
date=1421175596]
You cannot straiten out yourself, much less others.
[/quote]
I can only attempt to straighten out others, when people see the
need to be straightened out. I cannot help a crooked person
who sees themselves as perfectly upright already. Its when
people are convicted by the Spirit of God, that they are willing
to change their course.
#Post#: 10088--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: Arsenios Date: January 13, 2015, 10:45 pm
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[quote=meshak]
You are disregarding what is going on with the churches. They
are nothing but chaos.
Why would you send people to chaotic churches and make them
confused?
You cannot straiten out yourself, much less others.[/quote]
The Church is in a condition of great decline now...
And no more so than in the Western Church, both Catholic and
Protestant...
But the Eastern Church is running into the same kinds of issues
of worldly departures...
The only difference is that the Truth EXISTS in the Eastern
Orthodox Faith,
and CAN be found there...
"When Christ returns, will He find the Faith upon the earth?"
"...And the last shall be first..."
Lord have Mercy!
Arsenios
#Post#: 10228--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: HOLLAND Date: January 25, 2015, 12:26 pm
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I do not think we need water baptism, but Baptism in the Spirit.
I think the washing of the flesh is only that. It is the
Spirit that does the cleansing; and, I think, that the Spirit
can do this immediately, without the mediation of anything that
has been created in and for this world.
Salvation is that grace given to us in Christ for our salvation,
the forgiveness of our sins and rebirth into a new reality or
self in Christ. We must be born again, born from above, a new
creation in Christ putting the old man or self down until Christ
brings us into that final fullness (pleroma) that is our destiny
in the eschaton.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 10229--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: Brad Date: January 25, 2015, 9:42 pm
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Althought baptism by water is much like circumcision was to the
jews, do you all remember what happened to Moses when he refused
to do it?
#Post#: 10237--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: Kerry Date: January 26, 2015, 6:02 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=960.msg10228#msg10228
date=1422210418]
I do not think we need water baptism, but Baptism in the Spirit.
I think the washing of the flesh is only that. It is the
Spirit that does the cleansing; and, I think, that the Spirit
can do this immediately, without the mediation of anything that
has been created in and for this world.
Salvation is that grace given to us in Christ for our salvation,
the forgiveness of our sins and rebirth into a new reality or
self in Christ. We must be born again, born from above, a new
creation in Christ putting the old man or self down until Christ
brings us into that final fullness (pleroma) that is our destiny
in the eschaton.
Peace be with you!
[/quote]Can anyone summon the Holy Spirit and receive it?
Can a person be confident he's gotten the Holy Spirit and not a
deceiver if he relies on nonphysical means alone and proceeds
without the aid of others?
What do we do with the Scripture that says Jesus will be with
two or three that are gathered in his name? It seems
important to me that the community of believers is emphasized
when someone enters the Body of Christ. I think that was the
reason Jesus let his disciples baptize but didn't baptize
himself. He wanted people to know they had to value all the
relationships with other members in the Body and not try to make
it a "only Jesus and me" thing.
I believe the exterior details of physical baptism help focus
minds so the spiritual one happens and relying on our fellow man
to introduce us into the Body of Christ teaches a lesson.
#Post#: 10249--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Salvation?
By: HOLLAND Date: January 28, 2015, 6:36 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=960.msg10237#msg10237
date=1422273749]
Can anyone summon the Holy Spirit and receive it?[/quote]
No, Kerry. God retains his sovereignty.
[quote]Can a person be confident he's gotten the Holy Spirit
and not a deceiver if he relies on nonphysical means alone and
proceeds without the aid of others?[/quote]
There is, granted, the possibility of deception by proceeding
alone, but reliance upon the aid of others can also result in
deception. Groups can and do make errors in respect to the Holy
Spirit. Groups can be more pernicious in the error given that
they propagate the errors more easily.
[quote]What do we do with the Scripture that says Jesus will be
with two or three that are gathered in his name?[/quote]
"That he is there with them."
[quote]It seems important to me that the community of believers
is emphasized when someone enters the Body of Christ. I think
that was the reason Jesus let his disciples baptize but didn't
baptize himself. He wanted people to know they had to value all
the relationships with other members in the Body and not try to
make it a "only Jesus and me" thing.[/quote]
The Spirit does beckon towards community. In the expression of
love that is in Christ and moves outward upon the workings of
the Spirit leads to th working of the value of relationships.
But, it would seem that the immediacy of the Spirit in the
consciousness of the believer must still and always make it a
"Jesus and me" thing.
[quote]I believe the exterior details of physical baptism help
focus minds so the spiritual one happens and relying on our
fellow man to introduce us into the Body of Christ teaches a
lesson.[/quote]
I don't see it, Kerry. I do not see the need of the washing of
the flesh to symbolize an inner working of the Spirit. To me
physical baptism always leads to a position where there is an
ecclesiastical hierarchy that demands a control over the ritual
and, thru it, control over others.
Peace be with you!
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