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#Post#: 9764--------------------------------------------------
Extreme PoV's.
By: Mike Date: December 26, 2014, 3:23 am
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I thought the following post from one of my forums, together
with my reply, to be worth a wider airing.
[quote author=xxxx link=topic=1887.msg22685#msg22685
date=1419555631]
From past times I have been advised to add to my post the words
'in my opinion', and if it helps you I do so now.
The things I say now and write may offend some, but I hope not
since that is not my intention.
I tell you that this is my opinion but would add that truly , I
believe this is God's opinion and therefore also mine.
Have you ever noticed that many of the times when someone was
healed in the bible, it was someone else who spoke for them (my
servant needs healing, my son, my mother).
Sometimes the disciples would bring them to Jesus. Maybe they
weren't teachers but sometimes I see myself as bringing people
to the Lord, even some who think they are already baptized and
know the Lord well.
So, that is my Opinion.
[/quote]
No probs xxxx.
Forums exist to enable people to express their opinions.....and
that includes opinions that God has opinions, and that they are
the same as one's own.
All members have their own opinions and that even includes me.
And my opinion is that God permitted a verbally errant,
incomplete, and far from final, 'text book' to be produced
because it is his opinion that if he had permitted a verbally
inerrant, complete and final one to be produced then man would
use it to form opinions that he could claim to be the same as
those held by God.
But that is only my opinion of God's opinion.
#Post#: 9766--------------------------------------------------
Re: Extreme PoV's.
By: Kerry Date: December 26, 2014, 5:18 am
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I moved this since another forum and a member at another forum
are mentioned.
I wonder how he'd feel if you told him you wanted to bring him
to Jesus even though he thinks he already knows Jesus well. I
wonder how that would fly with him? And tell him too that you
are "of the opinion" that your opinion is God's opinion.
If you ask me, some people need mental help.
#Post#: 9769--------------------------------------------------
Re: Extreme PoV's.
By: Kerry Date: December 26, 2014, 2:16 pm
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Words are symbols of real things. Words are used to communicate
ideas about things. They are not the things. The things are
what are real and true.
If I see a wonderful moon and want you to see it too, I could
use words. I could say, "Look up at the moon." I could also
point at it. All my words and my gesture are wasted if you
don't look up and see what I see. On the other hand, I get the
impression you did see if if you say, "Wow!" That lets me
know you understood my words and that we're in the same reality.
Words need to relate to reality.
If I say, "Look up at the moon," and you say, "Why? I've seen it
before," I don't know what's going on with you. If you say, "I
looked, I don't see anything," I may think you're nuts.
Sometimes we aren't even meaning the same thing when we use a
word.
Religion is a wonderful thing for people who don't want to deal
with reality. They can imagine almost is true without the fear
of "being proved wrong." You might get locked up if you run
red lights and tell the police the lights were green; but you
can say almost anything about religion and get away with it.
There is no truth in any religion unless the words can
communicate the reality adequately enough so that the listener
comes to see the actual reality. Most of the time, human
language lacks words that everyone agrees on. That's because
people are talking about things they haven't seen.
Suppose I started talking about woofah-alpocas. Would you know
what I meant? If I talked enough about it, maybe you would
think you knew; but would you? No, not if you never saw a
woofah-alpoca. If I described them well, you might get a very
good picture; but you still wouldn't have a perfect idea. You
might however get a good enough idea that if you ever did see
one, you'd know what I had been talking about. If I gave you
clues, that might help too. I could tell you they usually live
in the ground under trees and prefer oaks. If you were digging
under an oak trying to find one, you might know what it was if
you found it.
Most religion is nonsense since leaders seldom can tell us how
to find out things for ourselves. Leaders can tell us all kinds
about angels but not how to see one for ourselves. They can't
prove anything -- which is as it ought to be -- but they also
can't tell us how to find out for ourselves -- which is not as
it ought to be. This is the sign of the spiritually blind
trying to pick up followers by putting on the air of "I know
things you don't." Unfortunately, many spiritually blind
people who acknowledge they're blind are impressed by such bold
claims. They are apt to follow anyone who claims to know
things; but I say it's all rubbish unless your leaders can tell
you how to see for yourself.
If they have seen for themselves -- and I'm serious now --
wouldn't they know what they did right? If I grew marigolds by
planting seeds in the ground, shouldn't I be able to tell you
how I did it? Then you could go test it yourself. I could
give you seeds to plant; and even if you had never seen any of
my marigolds, you could plant the seeds and see what happens if
you follow directions.
The hallmark of the fraudster in religion is that he says he
knows but he can't tell you how he came to know. He's blind
himself; and he followed blind men who went before him; and
often he's so convinced he's right, he expects you to follow
him.
A genuine teacher will tell you he relied on the "right
authorities" in the past and then came to know and to see for
himself. This is demonstrated time and again in the Bible; but
few people seem to pick up on it.
Peter wasn't always able to communicate with Heaven. At first
he depended completely on Jesus. Peter could be compared to
that little mustard seed that was first a shrub and then became
a big tree. At first, he was low to the ground and got his
resources from Jesus. When he grew up however, he was tall
enough to "reach into Heaven" for himself. That speaks volumes
about the validity of Jesus as a teacher.
#Post#: 9785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Extreme PoV's.
By: HOLLAND Date: December 29, 2014, 6:52 am
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I would be inclined to think that objects in this world, or,
rather, that the perceptual grasp of this world is bound up in a
conceptual grasp of the same and that language and perception go
together. How can one understand one without the other?
Religion is part of a larger conceptual process and is bound up
in symbolization regarding it: to delineate meanings from it, to
understand the nature of the mystery about it, and, failing
that, to enter into philosophy to further explore its meaning.
I would suggest that religion is the doorway to deeper thought
analogically much as existentialism is the doorway to further
growth and development in philosophy.
I experience the cold and snow and have to shovel +8 inches of
snow. I have conceptualized it, defining it as cold contrasting
it with warmth, and have conceptualized rules of prudence in
respect to it. Thus it is with the empirical. But it is
existential and finally religious. It is not merely snow, as it
relates to a wider meaning of experience, religious meaning and
symbols interplay with it furthering growth of meaning in
unexpected ways. The snow may symbolize the divine or some
aspect of nature. Its meaning is not foreclosed but exists in a
plenitude of meaning that we must awaken to.
May you all have peace this holiday season!
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