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#Post#: 10271--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quakerism: The Silent Witness
By: coldwar Date: February 1, 2015, 7:49 am
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Wonderful Holland. Do you keep a Journal of what you experience
in the silence of a meeting? I decided to start one, and nothing
has happened to me yet that cannot be shard, so I'd like to
share some of my Journal with this group. Here's one that's
particularly interesting:
Jan. 13, 2015
“Yin-Yan”
This was a far more subtle, less distinct vision. I felt the
usual upward pull, and was given an immediate impression that my
Spirit and Soul were being separated (Heb 4:12*), and also that,
by years of previous practice that I was in fact barely aware
of, I have become quite accustomed to this sensation.. some
other people might feel very disturbed by this, even fearful,
but for me, it's simply a sensation of the more significant part
of me being pulled up and out of my body. Today was the first
day ever that I was given the impression that it was my Spirit
that was being pulled upward, leaving my body and soulish self
seated in the chair. (Ezek. 8:3 “And he put forth the form of an
hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted
me up between the earth and the heaven...”
Immediately after this, I saw a dark shape below wrestling with
a white shape above, and it was prevailing. The white had almost
disappeared, and it was then I realized I was seeing the classic
Oriental Yin-Yang symbol(1) locked in a struggle with itself.
Then I saw an extremely quick flash of a confusion of naked arms
and legs sticking up out of what could have been the Lake of
Fire, but it quickly vanished. Then, suddenly the white shape
above began to enlarge again and went into balance with the dark
shape below.
It was then that I felt in my Spirit that I shouldn't jump to
conclusions about trying to find meaning in this vision, but
rather, to slowly ponder it over the next few days. This whole
vision only lasted five minutes at the most, and I simply spent
the remaining 40 minutes of the Meeting relaxing with random,
unconnected thoughts – it was enough – my Spirit and Soul
must've re-integrated. I thought concerning the vision that I
ought to study the most basic stuff about Taoism, but I'm not
sure if this was from Jesus or simply a random thought of my
own. I (looked) into it, to see if it makes any more sense
concerning this vision.
*One more thought - This “dividing” I was feeling was not at
all similar to my experience over a year ago when I smoked a
joint of “turbo-weed” with my friend. At that time, I felt my
soul leaving my body, not my spirit. Biblically I've already
stated the difference between soul and spirit (Update 2 below) –
they're not the same thing. Under the influence of this very
strong cannabis which I was not accustomed to, I found the
experience most disturbing and uncomfortable.
(1)Update-1 When I did a simple search on “Yin-Yang”, I
immediately saw that the traditional symbol known as the
Taijitu was backwards in my vision – it's commonly shown white
on the left and black on the right – mine was opposite, and
somewhat rotated, so that the dark was rising from the bottom
left and the right was coming down from the top right.
Update - 2 Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and
powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to
the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and
marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the
heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in
his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of
him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a
great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the
Son of God, let us hold fast ourprofession.
This seems to me an afirmation of the Quaker belief that Jesus,
and not the Bible, is the Word of God. Lot's of people love to
quote v12 to say the Bible is sharper than any two edged sword,
but they fail to read what is written immediately after – “that
there is no creature who is not manifest in his sight... a great
High Priest... passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God...”
Update – 3
I feel there must be significance in that I saw the Yin-Yang
formed backwars and rotated. I know sometimes how religious
symbols can be distorted – the Roman Catholic's bent crucifix,
and the practice of Seventh Day Adventists to rotate a wooden
cross on the wall about 30 degrees clockwise are two examples.
The Yin-Yang symbol is Taoism's reference to perfect balance and
harmony, so as long as it is in balance, perhaps it doesn't
matter how it's orientated. But it wasn't in balance – it was in
struggle, first with the dark prevailing from below, with the
lake of fire emerging from it, and then with the light
prevailing from above, seeming to swallow up the lake of fire,
as if becoming one with it. “God is a consuming fire”.
Taoism certainly has a recognition of Jesus (as do the majority
of the world's religions); also, in a sense, Taoism is merely
everybody's individual “ism”, and so if Jesus is strongly set in
one's beliefs, then he belongs in the Tao for such. But Taoism
doesn't typically contain the whole account of Jesus – most
importantly, it would not acknowledge Jesus' exclusivity, saying
“Nobody comes to the Father but by me”. So perhaps the “proper”
Yin Yang is in fact backwards, and what I saw was the correct.
Curious, I googled “Yin-Yang backwards”, and found the symbol is
in fact represented in both ways, and often rotated! It can be
seen as in a mirror (1 Cor 13:12). I must say, all of what I see
in Quaker Meeting, or by myself, is obscured in a dark haze –
Paul's meaning is clear - in his day, the polished silver /
glass mirrors we have today didn't exist, and the reflected
image was much darker and difficult for discerning detail.
#Post#: 10283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quakerism: The Silent Witness
By: HOLLAND Date: February 2, 2015, 6:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=coldwar link=topic=896.msg10271#msg10271
date=1422798556]
Wonderful Holland. Do you keep a Journal of what you experience
in the silence of a meeting?[/quote]
No, coldwar. I have stopped doing a Journal decades ago. I am
in the Quaker diaspora and are not part of a particular meeting.
[quote]I decided to start one, and nothing has happened to me
yet that cannot be shard, so I'd like to share some of my
Journal with this group. Here's one that's particularly
interesting:
Jan. 13, 2015
“Yin-Yan”
This was a far more subtle, less distinct vision. I felt the
usual upward pull, and was given an immediate impression that my
Spirit and Soul were being separated (Heb 4:12*), and also that,
by years of previous practice that I was in fact barely aware
of, I have become quite accustomed to this sensation.. some
other people might feel very disturbed by this, even fearful,
but for me, it's simply a sensation of the more significant part
of me being pulled up and out of my body. Today was the first
day ever that I was given the impression that it was my Spirit
that was being pulled upward, leaving my body and soulish self
seated in the chair. (Ezek. 8:3 “And he put forth the form of an
hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted
me up between the earth and the heaven...”
Immediately after this, I saw a dark shape below wrestling with
a white shape above, and it was prevailing. The white had almost
disappeared, and it was then I realized I was seeing the classic
Oriental Yin-Yang symbol(1) locked in a struggle with itself.
Then I saw an extremely quick flash of a confusion of naked arms
and legs sticking up out of what could have been the Lake of
Fire, but it quickly vanished. Then, suddenly the white shape
above began to enlarge again and went into balance with the dark
shape below.
It was then that I felt in my Spirit that I shouldn't jump to
conclusions about trying to find meaning in this vision, but
rather, to slowly ponder it over the next few days. This whole
vision only lasted five minutes at the most, and I simply spent
the remaining 40 minutes of the Meeting relaxing with random,
unconnected thoughts – it was enough – my Spirit and Soul
must've re-integrated. I thought concerning the vision that I
ought to study the most basic stuff about Taoism, but I'm not
sure if this was from Jesus or simply a random thought of my
own. I (looked) into it, to see if it makes any more sense
concerning this vision.
*One more thought - This “dividing” I was feeling was not at
all similar to my experience over a year ago when I smoked a
joint of “turbo-weed” with my friend. At that time, I felt my
soul leaving my body, not my spirit. Biblically I've already
stated the difference between soul and spirit (Update 2 below) –
they're not the same thing. Under the influence of this very
strong cannabis which I was not accustomed to, I found the
experience most disturbing and uncomfortable.
(1)Update-1 When I did a simple search on “Yin-Yang”, I
immediately saw that the traditional symbol known as the
Taijitu was backwards in my vision – it's commonly shown white
on the left and black on the right – mine was opposite, and
somewhat rotated, so that the dark was rising from the bottom
left and the right was coming down from the top right.
Update - 2 Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and
powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to
the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and
marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the
heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in
his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of
him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a
great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the
Son of God, let us hold fast ourprofession.[/quote]
I find this fascinating but having no similar experience do not
know what to make of it.
[quote]This seems to me an afirmation of the Quaker belief that
Jesus, and not the Bible, is the Word of God. Lot's of people
love to quote v12 to say the Bible is sharper than any two edged
sword, but they fail to read what is written immediately after –
“that there is no creature who is not manifest in his sight... a
great High Priest... passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of
God...”[/quote]
I would witness that for many Quakers, the Word is disclosed
through the Spirit and is manifested bodily in Jesus and is
disclosed in the Bible. What is important about Quakers is that
they affirm that much that is declared about the Bible is not
the speaking of it through the Spirit which manifests its
meaning, but rather through the flesh, the notions derived from
human imagining. Because so many notions are bound up in the
reading of the Bible, its interpretation apart from the Spirit
is a futile working of human pride.
[quote]Update – 3
I feel there must be significance in that I saw the Yin-Yang
formed backwars and rotated. I know sometimes how religious
symbols can be distorted – the Roman Catholic's bent crucifix,
and the practice of Seventh Day Adventists to rotate a wooden
cross on the wall about 30 degrees clockwise are two examples.
The Yin-Yang symbol is Taoism's reference to perfect balance and
harmony, so as long as it is in balance, perhaps it doesn't
matter how it's orientated. But it wasn't in balance – it was in
struggle, first with the dark prevailing from below, with the
lake of fire emerging from it, and then with the light
prevailing from above, seeming to swallow up the lake of fire,
as if becoming one with it. “God is a consuming fire”.
Taoism certainly has a recognition of Jesus (as do the majority
of the world's religions); also, in a sense, Taoism is merely
everybody's individual “ism”, and so if Jesus is strongly set in
one's beliefs, then he belongs in the Tao for such. But Taoism
doesn't typically contain the whole account of Jesus – most
importantly, it would not acknowledge Jesus' exclusivity, saying
“Nobody comes to the Father but by me”. So perhaps the “proper”
Yin Yang is in fact backwards, and what I saw was the correct.
Curious, I googled “Yin-Yang backwards”, and found the symbol is
in fact represented in both ways, and often rotated! It can be
seen as in a mirror (1 Cor 13:12). I must say, all of what I see
in Quaker Meeting, or by myself, is obscured in a dark haze –
Paul's meaning is clear - in his day, the polished silver /
glass mirrors we have today didn't exist, and the reflected
image was much darker and difficult for discerning detail.
[/quote]
Thus it is with us all. We "see darkly" as the Apostle says
until the Spirit illuminates. So is the common witness of
humankind. It is groping in that dark wherein that we all meet
and it is in the Spirit, into the Light that we all meet God.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 10285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quakerism: The Silent Witness
By: Kerry Date: February 2, 2015, 7:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=coldwar link=topic=896.msg10271#msg10271
date=1422798556]
Immediately after this, I saw a dark shape below wrestling with
a white shape above, and it was prevailing. The white had almost
disappeared, and it was then I realized I was seeing the classic
Oriental Yin-Yang symbol(1) locked in a struggle with itself.
Then I saw an extremely quick flash of a confusion of naked arms
and legs sticking up out of what could have been the Lake of
Fire, but it quickly vanished. Then, suddenly the white shape
above began to enlarge again and went into balance with the dark
shape below.
It was then that I felt in my Spirit that I shouldn't jump to
conclusions about trying to find meaning in this vision, but
rather, to slowly ponder it over the next few days. This whole
vision only lasted five minutes at the most, and I simply spent
the remaining 40 minutes of the Meeting relaxing with random,
unconnected thoughts – it was enough – my Spirit and Soul
must've re-integrated. I thought concerning the vision that I
ought to study the most basic stuff about Taoism, but I'm not
sure if this was from Jesus or simply a random thought of my
own. I (looked) into it, to see if it makes any more sense
concerning this vision.
*One more thought - This “dividing” I was feeling was not at
all similar to my experience over a year ago when I smoked a
joint of “turbo-weed” with my friend. At that time, I felt my
soul leaving my body, not my spirit. Biblically I've already
stated the difference between soul and spirit (Update 2 below) –
they're not the same thing. Under the influence of this very
strong cannabis which I was not accustomed to, I found the
experience most disturbing and uncomfortable.
(1)Update-1 When I did a simple search on “Yin-Yang”, I
immediately saw that the traditional symbol known as the
Taijitu was backwards in my vision – it's commonly shown white
on the left and black on the right – mine was opposite, and
somewhat rotated, so that the dark was rising from the bottom
left and the right was coming down from the top right.
Update - 2 Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and
powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to
the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and
marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the
heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in
his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of
him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a
great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the
Son of God, let us hold fast ourprofession.
This seems to me an afirmation of the Quaker belief that Jesus,
and not the Bible, is the Word of God. Lot's of people love to
quote v12 to say the Bible is sharper than any two edged sword,
but they fail to read what is written immediately after – “that
there is no creature who is not manifest in his sight... a great
High Priest... passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of
God...”[/quote]This is a controversial topic; but in my view,
Jesus can speak "the Word" or "the words" -- that does these
things -- in this case the dividing of soul, spirit, etc.
There are other words he speaks. The Words manifests in
several ways including in the flesh. Thus the Word again
becomes flesh, but this time in others. Some people personify
"the Word" as "Jesus" and then do not see how we are to be like
him. Jesus heard and obeyed every Word of God -- thus keeping
the saying, "Man shall live by every word that proceeds from the
mouth of God." Jesus was not born with all his perfections --
but earned them honestly and by facing more temptations than are
required of us. The "Word" is also "engrafted" in us -- James
1:21.
It seems as if something happened that gives you direct evidence
about how the Scriptures should be read. Until we have those
experiences, I think it best to have an open mind, admitting we
aren't sure. That openmindedness allows the Spirit to work
since we aren't actively opposing it with our ideas.
The various "components" of the human being are usually all
together; and when joined, the problems in them are hard to
discern or fix. When they are separated, the problems in each
one stand out more and can be corrected. Then when they join
again, they lack the things that caused them to have the "inner
conflicts" among the various members. One of the big problems,
in my opinion, is how people allow their emotions to usurp the
mental functions. This can cloud the mind and confuse the
emotions. Yes, I'd say your impression of what happened is
right.
And in many ways, it's more important to be quiet and allow
things to happen correctly than to analyze them with the mind.
I suppose if we had to understand first how we are saved in
order to be saved, no one would be saved.
[quote]Update – 3
I feel there must be significance in that I saw the Yin-Yang
formed backwars and rotated. I know sometimes how religious
symbols can be distorted – the Roman Catholic's bent crucifix,
and the practice of Seventh Day Adventists to rotate a wooden
cross on the wall about 30 degrees clockwise are two examples.
The Yin-Yang symbol is Taoism's reference to perfect balance and
harmony, so as long as it is in balance, perhaps it doesn't
matter how it's orientated. But it wasn't in balance – it was in
struggle, first with the dark prevailing from below, with the
lake of fire emerging from it, and then with the light
prevailing from above, seeming to swallow up the lake of fire,
as if becoming one with it. “God is a consuming fire”.[/quote]
I see a yin-yang symbol at times as I drift off to sleep, but
mine is not black and white but rather violet and black. It
rotates clockwise.
The production of the yin and yang could be compared to Day One
of Genesis in a way; but perhaps it's Day Two. At first "the
light" is still in mixed in with the darkness. As time goes
back, the two begin to separate. You can also think of it as
separating various emotions and thoughts.
[quote]Taoism certainly has a recognition of Jesus (as do the
majority of the world's religions); also, in a sense, Taoism is
merely everybody's individual “ism”, and so if Jesus is strongly
set in one's beliefs, then he belongs in the Tao for such. But
Taoism doesn't typically contain the whole account of Jesus –
most importantly, it would not acknowledge Jesus' exclusivity,
saying “Nobody comes to the Father but by me”. So perhaps the
“proper” Yin Yang is in fact backwards, and what I saw was the
correct. Curious, I googled “Yin-Yang backwards”, and found the
symbol is in fact represented in both ways, and often rotated!
It can be seen as in a mirror (1 Cor 13:12). I must say, all of
what I see in Quaker Meeting, or by myself, is obscured in a
dark haze – Paul's meaning is clear - in his day, the polished
silver / glass mirrors we have today didn't exist, and the
reflected image was much darker and difficult for discerning
detail.[/quote]I believe Lao Tzu and Jesus are the same person.
I've never seen it happen; but some say if the two sections spin
fast enough, the "dots" appear. A black dot appears inside the
white section and a black dot inside the black.
When I see the violet and black Tai Chi, I feel I am summoning
the flames of Mercy into the world. The swirling of the
Yin-Yang can also act as a vortex, it seems to me, between
various planes. The violet part is like fire.
I'd say it's also related to the matter of the merkabah which
also spins -- to what happened to Ezekiel.
As for the saying, no one comes to the Father but by Jesus, I'd
say it is true and people might be surprised how some people
get to know Jesus.
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