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#Post#: 9389--------------------------------------------------
Before Genesis
By: George Date: October 22, 2014, 4:09 pm
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I have heard it insinuated that there were beings prior to Adam
living on the earth. If this be the case, were they human
beings? Who made them? How does this fit into the story we read
in Genesis? Did/do they have/need a savior to connect them back
to there god/creator? I don't think the answers to these
questions can be found in the bible; but what about other
writings? What about the story of Thoth claimed to be told in
the emerald tablets? Thoth must have been important even to the
Egyptians, he is often seen as a huge statue in Egyptian
hieroglyphs. It is said that the emerald tablets pre dates the
bible by many thousands of years. It is said to tell about the
origin of life here on this planet. Is there truth in the
teachings of Thoth?
#Post#: 9392--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: Kerry Date: October 22, 2014, 5:38 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=895.msg9389#msg9389
date=1414012197]
I have heard it insinuated that there were beings prior to Adam
living on the earth. If this be the case, were they human
beings?[/quote]My opinions follow. Yes, they were human
beings. [quote]Who made them?[/quote]
The spiritual beings who were originally in charge of this
planet. When invaders arrived, there was a war and the
original spiritual hierarchy fell, becoming very much like the
invaders. These beings (the original gods) are almost never
mentioned explicitly in the Bible.
[quote]How does this fit into the story we read in
Genesis?[/quote]
Genesis 1, after the opening, is not a story about creation but
about restoration. The "new era" begins on "day one" when a
new class of "gods" arrived to restore the original order to
earth. They agreed to take on the form of the native humans.
[quote]Did/do they have/need a savior to connect them back to
there god/creator?[/quote]
The problem for the native earth humans was that they lacked
spiritual guidance when the original gods fell.
[quote]I don't think the answers to these questions can be found
in the bible; but what about other writings? [/quote]Well, much
is concealed in the Bible. The concern there was that humans
would start worshiping the fallen gods as God if too much
information was given. That is what the fallen gods wanted, of
course; and giving their names publicly was a sort of
advertising, the Jews figured.
The True God is manifested through all His children, through all
the gods. Anytime we pick one and worship it as God, we make a
big mistake, and the god who encourages it also did.
[quote]What about the story of Thoth claimed to be told in the
emerald tablets? Thoth must have been important even to the
Egyptians, he is often seen as a huge statue in Egyptian
hieroglyphs. It is said that the emerald tablets pre dates the
bible by many thousands of years. It is said to tell about the
origin of life here on this planet. Is there truth in the
teachings of Thoth? [/quote]Are we talking about the same thing?
The Emerald Tablet is a short work that doesn't mention Thoth
-- if it's the Emerald Tablet I know about. Wikipedia
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet#Newton.27s_translation<br
/>has Newton's translation of it.
I do not know much about the Egyptian gods to be honest. I've
never met one of them. That could be because my own history on
earth doesn't go back to the time when they were the proper
gods for Egypt. But part of the plan set forth in the Bible is
the restoration of Egypt and Babylon -- and all the nations.
First spiritually Israel was to replace the fallen gods -- and
once they did that, they were to teach the physical humans about
the One True God. When that is accomplished, the angry
fallen gods can be restored to spiritual sanity.
There was a time when both Egypt and India had true religion.
There are clues in the Bible. Take for example, getting "dust"
from the four corners of the earth to form hadam before putting
him in Eden. That was so he could be compatible with the
natives. Paul refers to this briefly:
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to
dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the
times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Another clue is when Jacob wrestled the angel. We are not told
who or what the angel was in Genesis itself. It was Esau's
Guardian Angel. Jacob "won" the right to offer his spiritual
covering to the descendants of Esau. Who were they? They
came from the fallen races and had incarnated in the Adamic
line; but they retained the same affiliations spiritually and
still owed something to that Guardian Angel.
#Post#: 9393--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: Runner Date: October 22, 2014, 5:48 pm
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As I tried to post, I see that Kerry has already
answered...must go and read it!!
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This sounds very much in Kerry's court George , I am sure you
are asking him. :)
I do think there was life here before Adam, pre Genesis, to me
it is the only thing that 'makes sense', but biblically,
obviously "it doesn't matter" or was ever talked or written
about..therefore, I would guess God didn't tell Moses or anyone
anything, because to Him it was not important. I don't think
any man-kind if there were any had a spirit...they must have
only had body and soul like our animals.
No I don't like they needed to be saved. I do think the
prehistoric animals were clumping around here for a every long
time...and ' probably' the grunt-man, later.
It's all guess work. Fun eh? :D
#Post#: 9395--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: coldwar Date: October 22, 2014, 11:47 pm
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The Bible isn't totally silent -
Gen. 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath
opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield
unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be
in the earth. 13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is
greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out
this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I
be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth;
and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall
slay me. 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever
slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the
LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 ¶And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt
in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his
wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city,
and called the name of the city, after the name of his son,
Enoch. 18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat
Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat
Lamech. 19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the
one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 And Adah
bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of
such as have cattle. 21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he
was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. 22 And
Zillah, she also bare Tubal–cain, an instructer of every
artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal–cain was
Naamah. 23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah,
Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I
have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. 24
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and
sevenfold. 25 ¶And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a
son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed
me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. 26 And to
Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name
Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Many people ask the question "where did Cain get his wife?" The
young-earth Christians' reply that it must've been an un-named
sister conceived in Eden. But Eve says specifically that Seth is
"another" seed to replace Abel. If Eve had already conceived
baby girls, it would have to have been in Eden before they were
expelled, yet this is not mentioned. I think the more important
questions are 1) who was Cain afraid of, so that God put a mark
upon him and 2) who comprised and dwelt in the city which Cain
built, named after his son Enoch?
And Kerry already mentioned Acts 17:26
#Post#: 9396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: coldwar Date: October 22, 2014, 11:56 pm
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^ "There was a time when both Egypt and India had true
religion."
Kerry - is India Babylon do you believe?
#Post#: 9397--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: Kerry Date: October 23, 2014, 12:55 am
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=895.msg9396#msg9396
date=1414040189]
^ "There was a time when both Egypt and India had true
religion."
Kerry - is India Babylon do you believe?
[/quote]I don't think so -- too far south. I'd say they are
related somehow but how I don't know. You can see that in the
similarities of the astrological systems. It would be quite
fair though to say it is part of the modern "Babel" of
confusion. Let me think about this. I've never given this
possibility much thought.
There were also "high civilizations" long ago in Central Asia
and all across Northern Africa, but I don't think that means
they existed in physical form. It appears to me that spiritual
beings existed at the ethereal plane and spent time guarding or
guiding evolution. The areas in North Africa were somehow
associated with Atlantis. When it fell, so did they. My guess
is that they had colonies -- both spiritual and physical -- all
over. I place the fall of Atlantis at Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth <became> without form <tohuw>, and
void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit
of God moved upon the face of the waters.
"Was" is wrong. Sorry, but it's just plain not right. It's a
mistranslation that also contradicts Isaiah.
Isaiah Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the
heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath
established it, he created it not in vain, <tohuw> he formed it
to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
It definitely should read "became" formless and empty.
#Post#: 9399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: Runner Date: October 23, 2014, 2:53 pm
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[quote]"Was" is wrong. Sorry, but it's just plain not right.
It's a mistranslation that also contradicts Isaiah.
Isaiah Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the
heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath
established it, he created it not in vain, <tohuw> he formed it
to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
It definitely should read "became" formless and empty.
[/quote]
Yes, I totally agree with 'became'. Do you link satan and one
third of the fallen angels being cast out of heaven, as this
time of 'becoming' void & chaos?
Isn't Iraq the old Babylon? I thought they found all kinds of
archeological proof there?
#Post#: 9400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: coldwar Date: October 23, 2014, 5:03 pm
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Babylon was a great empire - in Daniel, it was "of gold" and
unsurpassed. Yet, I know next to nothing about it, how far it
extended, or influenced the Eastern world..
#Post#: 9401--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: Kerry Date: October 23, 2014, 9:34 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=895.msg9399#msg9399
date=1414094020]
Yes, I totally agree with 'became'. Do you link satan and one
third of the fallen angels being cast out of heaven, as this
time of 'becoming' void & chaos? [/quote]I think there are three
types of fallen ones. The first type consists of the invading
spirits from the outside. They are incorrigible I think. The
second are the fallen spiritual beings who were to direct
mankind but who got into arguments and conflicts with the
invaders. If they had asked God to remove the invaders, it
would have been so, since they had dominion over the earth.
Instead they began imitating the invaders, returning evil for
evil; and thus they became like them. The third type is the
Adamic type which fell when Adam fell. Hadam, "the man", was
more than one person in one physical body. It was a corporate
body, like the Body of Christ. Indeed to me it's the same
thing.
This explains why it was necessary to have Adam and Eve confront
the serpent. Their job was to confront it and master it. The
salvation of the fallen races on the earth depended on that.
Unfortunately Adam and Eve did not master it but fell
themselves, but not completely, not as completely as the former
spiritual beings had fallen.
[quote]Isn't Iraq the old Babylon? I thought they found all
kinds of archeological proof there?[/quote]
Yes, the location of the city is well known. Saddam Hussein had
a plan to rebuild it and make it into a resort for people to
take vacations.
HTML http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/world/meast/iraq-babylon-tourism/
That article says Saddam called himself a son of Nebuchadnezzar.
Iraqi archaeologist Hai Katth Moussa said that during a massive
reconstruction project in the early 1980s, Saddam began building
a replica of the palace of Nebuchadnezzar II on top of the ruins
of the ancient palace.
Like Nebuchadnezzar, he wrote his name on many of the bricks,
with inscriptions such as: "This was built by Saddam, son of
Nebuchadnezzar, to glorify Iraq."
After the Gulf War, Saddam began building a modern palace for
himself on top of ruins in the style of a Sumerian ziggurat.
When U.S. forces arrived in 2003, they occupied the palace,
which lies adjacent to Nebuchadnezzar's palace and overlooks the
Euphrates River, and left their own mark. Today, a basketball
hoop remains in Babylon, while concertina wire left behind by
the military is used to prevent visitors from climbing over a
2,500-year-old lion statue -- an ancient symbol of the city.
[quote author=coldwar link=topic=895.msg9400#msg9400
date=1414101815]
Babylon was a great empire - in Daniel, it was "of gold" and
unsurpassed. Yet, I know next to nothing about it, how far it
extended, or influenced the Eastern world..[/quote]
What about Nebuchadnezzar's dream? Was it from God? It was,
according to Daniel's interpretation:
Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of
heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and
glory.
38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the
field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand,
and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of
gold.
This poses an awkward problem if we want to see Babylon as 100%
evil that lies completely outside God's plan and whose only
purpose is to be demolished later.
#Post#: 9416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Before Genesis
By: James Date: October 24, 2014, 4:01 pm
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Off topic no doubt, but I always wonder what happened to these
great civilizations.
Not only Babylon but also the Inca and the Aztec.
They are all reported as being resplendent in gold,
indescribable wealth, where did it all go. There seems so
little gold around now days, whereas these kingdoms were covered
in gold, or so "they" say.
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