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#Post#: 9268--------------------------------------------------
Living soul
DIR By: James
Date: October 10, 2014, 1:21 pm
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Gen:- And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul.
This did raise questions in my mind .
(1) Was Adam dead before the Lord breathed or was he just not
alive?
(2) A living soul, is that just soul or does it have a spirit
entente as well?
(3) Is there any place in the bible that states however vague
that soul= mind, emotions, heart?
I do not have answers that I am happy with, therefore I wondered
what others thought.
#Post#: 9270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: Kerry
Date: October 10, 2014, 5:20 pm
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My beliefs:
There are two types of breath. The first is the kind all
animals have. This is nephesh or soul. Soul by itself is not
immortal. When God Himself breathed into h'adam, this was
the Divine Breath of Life. It was the Holy Spirit. The Spirit
can move like the wind. In and out and here and there. It can
also fill a thing or a person. This is what the Jews call
neshamah or the breath of life. This is the breath which can
transmute the mortal soul and make it immortal. This is the
breath which Jesus breathed on his disciples before the
Crucifixion. They could not have received the fuller
expression of the Holy Spirit later if they had not received it
and retained it.
The Apostle James says the person with an unruly tongue is on
the path to ruin. Such a person cannot possibly have the "breath
of life." Without the neshamah, the soul of man is mortal and
can die. It is no different from the beasts of the field as
Solomon said; but if someone knows, he possesses a "spirit" that
goes upwards when he dies.
Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of
the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they
might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts;
even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the
other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no
preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to
dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the
spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Now there are men who stop reading at verse 20. They teach that
man is exactly like the animals; and these people say, "When
you're dead, you're dead." They deny Abraham or anyone else is
alive even though Jesus said he was. If we read on however to
verse 21, we see, "Who knows"? Indeed, who knows. He who
knows will take the proper action so he possesses that "spirit
of man" that goes upward when he dies.
Nothing can go up to heaven unless it came from heaven. What
comes down from heaven abides on the earth for a while and then
returns; and this can be compared to a man as bridegroom seeking
a wife. When the bridegroom returns home, he can take his wife
with him if the two are one.
If the "carnal" nature of man is not obedient to the "divine"
nature, it is not made immortal. When the body dies, it
returns to dust rather quickly; and the soul too can degrade and
eventually die. The Bible frequently speaks of souls dying,
but never the spirit dying.
---------------
About question three. The cherubim are vehicles. They can
also be called Temples of God. They are aspects of man. They
are also bodies which can exist together or separately. When
people's physical bodies are alive, the other three are usually
around. That is the value of having a physical body -- the
problems of the other three can be resolved. The heart is the
ethereal body -- they almost always by themselves appear as
having white hair. There is the mental body too and the
emotional body or nephesh/soul.
Lion=heart=third heaven
Man=mind=second heaven
Eagle=soul=first heaven
Calf=physical body=earth
When Paul says he was in the third heaven, that tells me that
God was in the Temple or vehicle called "the lion" by others.
Satan continues to act as prince over the second heaven in large
part since men's minds are deceived; and God is not in that
Temple. It's even worse in what is called the first heaven
which has been turned into hell.
This probably appears complicated. Maybe it is. It gets even
more complicated when you deal with the animals. They must
wait for their salvation until man gets his act together. Adam
was supposed to "preach the Gospel" to all the animals. Instead
"all of creation" continues to groan. You see, all of creation
is intended to rejoice and be glad. Adam was meant to be the
"connection" between God and the entire world. When he lost
the neshamah, the connection with Heaven was severed.
#Post#: 9271--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: Runner
Date: October 10, 2014, 6:56 pm
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It's funny how when we ( well at least James, Mike, and myself)
have a question or problem, we say to ourself...'I bet Kerry
knows the answer or at least will 'have' an answer.' See how
highly esteemed you are Kerry. ;D But it is so true!!
Interesting answer. I haven't grasped half of it..but will
re-read it a bit slower this time.
The prophet Paul Cain once talked about ( or was it Bob Jones)
people "running into the second heaven" and taking back the harp
of David ( as spiritual thing obviously) and said that satan had
stolen lots of thing into the secon heaven.
Have you heard anything like that? Sorry, not trying to knock
the thread off topic.
#Post#: 9273--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: Kerry
Date: October 10, 2014, 7:11 pm
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--- Quote from: Helen link ---
>
> It's funny how when we ( well at least James, Mike, and
myself) have a question or problem, we say to ourself...'I bet
Kerry knows the answer or at least will 'have' an answer.' See
how highly esteemed you are Kerry. ;D But it is so true!!
--- End Quote ---
I have opinions anyway.
--- Quote ---
> Interesting answer. I haven't grasped half of it..but will
re-read it a bit slower this time.
>
> The prophet Paul Cain once talked about ( or was it Bob Jones)
people "running into the second heaven" and taking back the harp
of David ( as spiritual thing obviously) and said that satan had
stolen lots of thing into the secon heaven.
>
> Have you heard anything like that? Sorry, not trying to knock
the thread off topic.
--- End Quote ---
Not about the harp of David, no; but I believe every saint has
his own spiritual place in the second heaven (as well as the
others); and if he hasn't ousted Satan out completely, Satan can
still keep the things he's stolen. Until the saint casts out
Satan, Satan is being given authorization by that saint to
operate in his part of the second heaven.
I think many parts of Revelation can be read two ways. There is
the global aspect; but there is the personal aspect too. The
person who reads it and keeps the things in it is blessed.
True when written and true today. When enough people cast
Satan out of the second heaven -- transfiguring their minds or
mental bodies -- then we will see the global event. The
"mind" of the world will be cleansed -- and that is necessary
before the Thousand Year Reign can begin. From the beginning,
God's side was winning since each saint who saw through the
deceptions of Satan, even in part, was helping clean up the
Second Heaven.
#Post#: 9277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: James
Date: October 11, 2014, 4:16 pm
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Just as Helen says, I shall go back over this to try and take it
in, it is all completly new to me.
Thank you very much Kerry.
#Post#: 10260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: HOLLAND
Date: January 30, 2015, 7:01 am
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It is interesting that the passage refers to "living" souls. If
my memory serves me rightly, there are other passages in
scripture which refer to "dead" souls. I am curious to know
what this might possibly mean. Anyone?
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 10267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: Kerry
Date: January 31, 2015, 10:57 pm
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Think about the branch of a tree that is cut off. It still
looks the same as before. It appears the same except that it is
no longer connected to the tree. It even has sap. But if it
remains unconnected, it cannot interact with the other parts of
the tree. Eventually it will wither and die. Without the sap
that goes back and forth, it must eventually die. You can keep
it alive by artificial means for a while however.
The same is true of body organs. They can look alive if
separated from the body; but eventually without being connected
to the body by blood, they must die. They can be sustained by
artificial means for a while.
The "breath of life" serves to connect the Divine Consciousness
in man with the Unity of God. The person without this breath
may appear live, and his "life" or "awareness" of the Unity may
be sustained temporarily by other means; but eventually he must
die if he remains separated from the Unity.
I believe when Jesus breathed on the disciples, he was repairing
their connection to the Unity -- apparently by acting as a
bridge between them and the Father. Once that repair was made,
it grew and matured and when Pentecost came, they developed
the ability to interact with the Unity. You can compare it
perhaps to a body organ that has been put back into a body but
remains a period of time before it acts normally again.
The spiritual delusion in man is that he can sustain forever his
own Divine Consciousness separate from the Unity. It is not
possible, and the Dark Side then resorts to various nefarious
means to keep itself "alive." These all resemble parasitic or
vampiric practices where a being from the Dark Side is stealing
from God's children what they can get and he can't. The Dark
Side needs to know once and for all it cannot stay alive
eternally using these methods. If God's children continue to
allow it, they are not helping beings of the Dark Side -- yet
God's children often continue to feed the Dark Side with
inappropriate sympathy for beings who are fallen.
Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take
the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Feeding evil only serves to feed its delusion that it can
continue indefinitely as separate from the Unity.
It may also be worth noting that when someone with a physical
body is connected to the Unity, he himself resembles a tree. He
is like an olive tree with his roots in the soil of this earth.
He does not depend solely on the Unity for everything; but
rather he can convert something in the physical world into the
"oil" of Christ consciousness -- which keeps his lamp burning.
Perhaps the important chakra here is the throat chakra which if
"alive" can draw "life" directly from the air as the person
breathes. If the throat chakra is not operating correctly,
the rest of the person also will not operate properly. James
speaks about the importance of having the tongue tamed. And
notice too that it is not said the disciples spoke "in other"
tongues. No, they spoke "with new" tongues. They had had the
"breath of life" given to them again when the tongues of fire
fell on them. Compare too to Isaiah's lips being purified.
If both blessings and curses come from the tongue, that person
is still under operating under the delusions of the forbidden
fruit. If the tongue is not bridled, his religion is in vain.
He is like the organ of a body which seems alive but remains
unconnected to the Unity by his curses. No matter how much
help Jesus or others may give him, his state still remains
perilous.
#Post#: 10324--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: HOLLAND
Date: February 11, 2015, 6:43 am
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Is then, Kerry, a "dead soul" in contrast to a "living soul" a
matter of consciousness, a consciousness that is endued with the
Holy Spirit? Is the content of life ultimately subsumed in
consciousness or does it involve something more?
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 10326--------------------------------------------------
Re: Living soul
DIR By: Kerry
Date: February 11, 2015, 12:44 pm
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--- Quote from: HOLLAND link ---
>
> Is then, Kerry, a "dead soul" in contrast to a "living soul" a
matter of consciousness, a consciousness that is endued with the
Holy Spirit?
>
--- End Quote ---
It may depend on how you define endue. It is certainly not
something a person can own or call his own. It is like
breathing in and out. Do you own your breath, or is breathing
something you can do?
Owning all things in common did not last long in the early
Church in physical terms; and that was a voluntary thing. In
spiritual terms however, all things are owned in common by the
Body of Christ. The physical example of Ananias and Sapphira
provides an example for how things work spiritually. They
sinned in both ways, of course; but the question is about the
spiritual side. The concept of self as a separate independent
entity that can survive on its own is abandoned as unrealistic.
The true self is found only when self figures out its place in
the unity of the Community.
Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and
supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and
with his brethren.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were
all with one accord in one place.
The type of awareness that thinks about "self" as a disconnected
entity is on the wrong path. I like the word Scientology has
for this, "individuating". This type of awareness calculates
whether to do something based solely on the advantages and
disadvantages to self in a short-term sort of way. A man with
this type of awareness may want the benefits of having a wife
that does things for him but he fails to see why that should
influence him to avoid hurting her by being unfaithful. He may
see the benefits of having friends who are inclined favorably
towards him; but if they have something he wants, he sees no
reason not to steal and lie. If he does see advantages in
giving to others, he does not experience any joy in it; rather
it is always a calculation. There is no real acceptance of
giving and receiving -- the calculation is always to receive
more than he gives. It's connected with the seed of the serpent
in its cunning.
The seed of the woman on the other hand finds joy in giving.
You see this in the innocence of children -- at least until they
are beaten down by the world.
The consciousness of the serpent drives out the Spirit. I
believe the Spirit wants to come and go like the wind. You can't
bottle the wind and own it. Once it's bottled, it's not
moving. It's no longer the wind. I see trying to own the Holy
Spirit in a similar way. The only way to have the Spirit is by
allowing it to move.
--- Quote ---
> Is the content of life ultimately subsumed in consciousness or
does it involve something more?
--- End Quote ---
My own belief is that there are many levels of consciousness.
Even the atom has several. It has its own awareness as an atom;
but that's connected to its "unconscious" or "subconscious"
levels of its protons, electrons and neutrons; and it's also
connected to a superconscious if it's part of a molecule.
The problem man faces is being able to connect with the
awareness above the individual human level. Paul would
probably call this the "Mind of Christ". Jews today might talk
about how all Israel is to be considered as one person, Adam ha
Rishon.
From kabbalah.info
HTML http://www.kabbalah.info/eng/content/view/frame/59065?/eng/content/view/full/59065&main:
Adam ha Rishon, the common soul (the creature), is the actual
root of everything that happens here. It is a structure of
desires that emerged once the formation of the spiritual worlds
was completed. As we’ve said above, the five worlds, Adam
Kadmon, Atzilut, Beria, Yetzira, and Assiya complete the
development of the upper part of Phase Four. But the lower part
still needs to be developed.
In other words, the soul is made of unworkable desires that
couldn’t receive Light in order to give to the Creator when they
were first created. Now they must surface one by one and become
corrected—workable—with the help of the worlds, the workable
desires.
Thus, just like the upper part of Phase Four, its lower part is
divided into still, vegetative, animate, and speaking levels of
desire. Adam ha Rishon evolves by the same degrees as the worlds
and the four basic phases. But Adam’s desires are egoistic,
self-centered; this is why he couldn’t receive Light to begin
with. As a result, we, the parts of Adam’s soul, have lost the
sensation of wholeness and unity in which we were created.
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