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#Post#: 9214--------------------------------------------------
Accountability
By: George Date: October 1, 2014, 9:09 pm
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Not long ago there was a college coach who was convicted of
molesting some young boys in the shower, I think these young
boys were visiting the college, doing some sports training, or
playing a game, or something along those line... I remember
there being at least one guy who came forth and admitting seeing
this happen; but out of fear of what could happen to the coach,
the school, and or even himself he kept quiet. He allowed this
to go on for many years, without ever reporting it to the
authorities.
Do you think that the fellow who was aware of these actions, and
could have possibly prevented them from happening, will be held
accountable in the eyes of God?
#Post#: 9215--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: Brad Date: October 1, 2014, 10:09 pm
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Of course he is accountable, but it is not a sin that cannot be
forgiven.
#Post#: 9216--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: meshak Date: October 2, 2014, 2:09 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=877.msg9214#msg9214
date=1412215798]
Do you think that the fellow who was aware of these actions, and
could have possibly prevented them from happening, will be held
accountable in the eyes of God?[/quote]
Of course he will be. He is as accountable as who actually did
the crime.
#Post#: 9217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: Kerry Date: October 2, 2014, 3:52 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=877.msg9214#msg9214
date=1412215798]
Do you think that the fellow who was aware of these actions, and
could have possibly prevented them from happening, will be held
accountable in the eyes of God?[/quote]
The key word in your question may be "possibly."
It is very easy to judge that man in hindsight, saying he could
have stopped things if he had talked. That's very possibly
true, no doubt. It's also probable that more people than him
knew things and they too kept quiet.
But in a corrupt climate, the person who speaks out can be
overwhelmed. He can speak in vain. He and his family can
suffer as a result and without accomplishing any good.
Consider Moses when he saw a man abusing another. The whole
Egyptian system was corrupt. Did Moses change anything by
killing the Egyptian? No. In fact, the man he defended went
and talked about it, putting Moses' life at risk. This
situation was simpler than what happened later in that Moses
wasn't married yet. He could run away and not be killed. It
separated him from his family; but at least he didn't have a
wife and children who suffered.
Moses also acted rashly, without thinking. If the man who saw
the man and boy in the shower had talked without having real
evidence that would hold up in court, he could have used for
defamation of character. And what if the boy refused to
testify? What if the boy was afraid to testify or bribed to
keep quiet? Saying, "I must speak up" without having a plan may
not be the best thing. It might be better to keep quiet and get
the evidence that would stand up in court. Talk to the boy and
his parents to see if they would back up his story. Get times
and dates.
Back to the story of Moses, we see that Moses made another
mistake after God told him to go back to Egypt to do something.
There was a plan at this point; but Moses made the mistake of
taking his wife and children with him. This was putting them
in harm's way. It's said that Aaron told him to send them back
to his father-in-law so they wouldn't be in danger.
So I think people have to be smart about it. If you want to
stop evil, you can't just blab. Your talk has to be able to
bring that evil person down or it's just a waste of breath; and
it could pose danger to your job and thus to your family. I
can see the university firing the person who talked. They had a
climate of corruption there. There would have been people in
high places who sided with the coach and they would have torn
down the witness, most likely firing him and possibly suing him.
It seems pretty clear to me that the coach felt so safe in what
he was doing he could do that in a shower where almost anyone
could walk in. He had friends in high places, and anyone who
felt like talking would be intimidated.
The task is to figure out how to accomplish the good. Just
talking may not be enough. It may be a mistake if it doesn't
fix anything but drags other innocent people into the situation.
Yes, I'd like to think that if that witness had talked, it would
solved everything fast; but I don't know that is true. His
fears at the time may have been valid. God would also consider
that, I think. If the witness would have been threatened,
fired, sued, and his family damaged, and if no good had come of
it, then he did the right thing by keeping quiet.
#Post#: 9218--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: coldwar Date: October 2, 2014, 10:48 pm
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Your question is specifically "would he be accountable in the
eyes of God?" I think most certainly he would, but God, who we
suppose knows all things, would know all of the cross-impacts
and ripple effects mentioned by Kerry. It would take a deeper
study of God's principles to answer "to what degree would this
be accountable to God" - I don't think I agree it would have the
same severity as the one who did the actual acts of abuse "for
whom it would be better if he had a millstone around his neck
and then cast into the sea". God shows us certain things - like
the presence of two or three witnesses are required, for example
- not sure if that applies here or not. We also knows that
everything done in secret will be revealed - does this include
the keeping of secrets while remaining otherwise innocent? I
don't think that to God, all the complications of human justice
will matter much, but my hope is that God would somehow lead
witnesses to act, not rashly, but in ways that would accomplish
the greatest good with the least collateral harm.
#Post#: 9219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: George Date: October 3, 2014, 12:15 am
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Kerry, you have made some valid points, I would want to believe
that there had to have been something that the witness could
have done to change what had happen at the school for several
years. I agree that he couldn't just run out and start making
claims; but there must have been a way to go about bringing the
perpetrator down, and save some of the boys who had been
violated later on after he witness the first offense. I cant
remember the details, I want to say that he did say something to
someone and was told to keep quiet. Regardless, do you think he
is accountable for not trying harder to bring a stop to these
actions? Even if it meant making sacrifices and possibly losing
his job? Is he justified for allowing this to happen for years
by saying, well he was looking out for his best interest and the
financial well being of his family, as well as the reputation of
the school?
#Post#: 9220--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: George Date: October 3, 2014, 5:16 pm
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[quote author=Brad link=topic=877.msg9215#msg9215
date=1412219352]
Of course he is accountable, but it is not a sin that cannot be
forgiven.
[/quote]
[quote author=meshak link=topic=877.msg9216#msg9216
date=1412276968]
Of course he will be. He is as accountable as who actually did
the crime.
[/quote]
[quote author=coldwar link=topic=877.msg9218#msg9218
date=1412308092]
I think most certainly he would, but God, who we suppose knows
all things, would know all of the cross-impacts and ripple
effects mentioned by Kerry.
[/quote]
I agree completely. As does the judicial system, If you are with
someone who commits a crime, and you do nothing to try to
prevent it, and you do not report the crime if it does occur,
you have now become an accessory to the crime. You will be held
accountable for your actions or lack there of.
My next question is, Who will hold God accountable for allowing
the bad things that happen in the lives of every human being to
walk the face of the planet?
It is something that arose in my thoughts while reading a post
here on "LoveGodOnly" forum.
Now, we all agree that if someone "Allows" bad things to happen,
and they have the ability to do something about it, they will be
held accountable. It is often said that God allows things to
happen, good things, as well as bad things. When the good things
happen in ones life, they are quick to thank God. Yet, when
something bad happens in ones life, it is often explained that
God has allowed this into ones life. When spoken of pertaining
to the negative, Gods allowing it seems to me, is a way that
most Christians use to act as if God is completely without
accountability. At the same time when God allows the good in
ones life, they thank God, glory be to God, God has answered
ones prayer.
I can't seem to come to means with all of this. I have always
questioned why; but the other day I questioned, Who will hold
God accountable? If God is not accountable for allowing thing to
happen, then why is anyone held accountable for allowing things
to happen?
#Post#: 9221--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: Kerry Date: October 3, 2014, 6:06 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=877.msg9219#msg9219
date=1412313327]
Kerry, you have made some valid points, I would want to believe
that there had to have been something that the witness could
have done to change what had happen at the school for several
years.[/quote]I'd would like to think that too, but it may not
be true.
[quote]I agree that he couldn't just run out and start making
claims; but there must have been a way to go about bringing the
perpetrator down, and save some of the boys who had been
violated later on after he witness the first offense.[/quote]His
own son lied at first. And I don't know I buy his story 100%.
Young people are apt to want to do things because they feel
good. Later, when they're older, they're embarrassed by them
and want to deny they enjoyed anything. Put "shame" and the
"good feelings" of sexual pleasure together, and you have an odd
mixture that confuses young people. I'd say the truth is they
have two reasons for not talking.
I also wonder why the boy Sandusky was doing in the shower
didn't tell his parents? Would they have forced him to keep
seeing Sandusky if he said he was being molested and didn't like
it? I think not. If you bribe young people with gifts and
give them sexual pleasure as well, odds are they won't want the
gifts to stop and possibly not the sex as well. It's the way
life is. When they grow up, have money to buy their own things
and can pick their own sex partners, things may look different
to them. But at the time, odds are they'll not want to make
waves.
Think about it. Think about all the sex abuse cases we hear
about. It's often years and years before anyone says anything.
If they really hated it at the time, my guess is many of them
could have gotten out of it. Not all -- not all. But the
silence of the victims is often because they'd lose something
themselves if they spoke up. The same goes for some parents of
victims -- some know or suspect what's going on, but they like
something they're getting, so they aren't going to talk. There
are women who will gladly turn a blind eye if a man wants to
have sex with her children if she's getting something out of the
man, often it's financial support -- sometimes it's just relief
that someone's taking her kids away giving her some free time.
[quote]I cant remember the details, I want to say that he did
say something to someone and was told to keep quiet. Regardless,
do you think he is accountable for not trying harder to bring a
stop to these actions? Even if it meant making sacrifices and
possibly losing his job? Is he justified for allowing this to
happen for years by saying, well he was looking out for his best
interest and the financial well being of his family, as well as
the reputation of the school?[/quote]I can't really judge. It's
in the area of "what-if's."
Is God accountable? Absolutely. Sometimes the only way people
will learn anything is by being allowed to injure one another.
I don't think God intervenes or is even willing to intervene
unless the injured party is 100% innocent and not responsible in
any way.
In almost any bad situation, there is nobody who's being
responsible. Not one person. Everyone is being irresponsible
one way or another. Take Sandusky's wife. I don't buy her
story either. How could she not know something was wrong? Can
we believe that he came home and made passionate love to her
after these escapades with boys? Can we believe he gave his
wife the sexual pleasure a man should give his wife? I can't
believe that anymore than I can believe Bishop Eddie Long's wife
about their sex life as she alleged. . . at first. I think
men who are mostly gay but who want to get married to keep up
appearances tend to pair off with women who aren't that
interested in sex. The wives may be happy with that; but they
could be ignoring something -- something that should raise red
flags. They don't want to see it. It might upset the status
quo.
#Post#: 9222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: Brad Date: October 3, 2014, 9:25 pm
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I think many hold God accountable. But God is only accountable
to Himself, but is trustworthy. When people want to blame God
for the evil found in the world, they often turn from Him based
on the lies from the father of lies. Satan wants us to
question God, but we never know the full story in anything. I
think thats one of the first things that happen in heaven or our
meeting Christ. We will be shown in our minds the truth of
every situation in where we question God's justice. And that
is why ever knee shall bow in repentance for finally realizing
our doubts were unfounded. I pray that my desire to call Jesus
Lord of my life will bring me to my knees before my doubts being
refuted take me there.
#Post#: 9226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accountability
By: Runner Date: October 4, 2014, 11:07 am
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Very good post Brad.
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