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       #Post#: 9107--------------------------------------------------
       The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: Kerry Date: September 20, 2014, 3:05 pm
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       Did you know your religion may be shrinking your brain?
       There's a scientific study that says it can.
       From plosone.org
  HTML http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0017006:
       Despite a growing interest in the ways spiritual beliefs and
       practices are reflected in brain activity, there have been
       relatively few studies using neuroimaging data to assess
       potential relationships between religious factors and structural
       neuroanatomy. This study examined prospective relationships
       between religious factors and hippocampal volume change using
       high-resolution MRI data of a sample of 268 older adults.
       Religious factors assessed included life-changing religious
       experiences, spiritual practices, and religious group
       membership. Hippocampal volumes were analyzed using the GRID
       program, which is based on a manual point-counting method and
       allows for semi-automated determination of region of interest
       volumes. Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was observed
       for participants reporting a life-changing religious experience.
       Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was also observed from
       baseline to final assessment among born-again Protestants,
       Catholics, and those with no religious affiliation, compared
       with Protestants not identifying as born-again. These
       associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic
       factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has
       been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia,
       and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate
       that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced
       by certain types of religious factors.
       I think some religion could affect the brain.  I've met people
       with "born again" claims who sometimes held beliefs that
       contradicted things in the Bible.   No matter what you said to
       them, they wouldn't or couldn't doubt that they were right about
       everything they believed.  They would say they believed all the
       Bible but then felt free to hold views that contradicted it.
       I think it would drive me a little crazy if I were like that.
       I met a man online who once said Adam and Eve were deceived.
       When someone tried to tell him he was wrong and the Bible said
       Adam was not deceived, this man would not admit being wrong.  He
       couldn't, I guess.  He seemed to think his salvation depended on
       his belief that every thought he had came from the Holy Spirit.
       If he doubted that, he might be damned; so he preferred to
       contradict the Bible.   You could see him going crazy about it.
       
       Then there were the condemning judgmental types.  Wouldn't it
       drive you crazy trying to prove how superior you were all the
       time when inside you knew you weren't any better than anyone
       else?    I think it might  shrink my brain.
       #Post#: 9112--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: Runner Date: September 20, 2014, 7:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Interesting read.  Maybe with the real spiritual people..like
       prayer intercessors who spend hours on their knees...their
       spirit and soul gets bigger and their brain gets smaller.
       Maybe that is the increasing and decreasing that John the
       Baptist spoke of   :P  :D
       ( not that in all seriousness I would want a smaller brain, mine
       is small enough already!! :'(   )
       #Post#: 9119--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: Kerry Date: September 20, 2014, 8:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's probably not a good thing since that kind of brain is
       connected with depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease.
       I'd like to do a study on the hellfire and brimstone type.
       Some of them strike me as depressed.   Sometimes I wonder if
       they're there -- it's like hearing a phonograph recording that
       repeats things over and again.
       #Post#: 9124--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: coldwar Date: September 21, 2014, 6:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This is of serious interest to me, having had a brain surgery.
       As I've mentioned here before, my brain now has two multi-point
       wires pushed down through it into the Basal Ganglia, which is
       located deep in the mid-brain. The wires are connected to a
       Neuro Stimulator which regulates excessive signalling that
       causes abnormal movements = Dystonia. If you need to know more,
       Google Dystonia and DBS.
       Up until around early 2010, all was fine. After that, in order
       to keep my abnormal head / neck twisting under control, I had to
       have my Stimulator turned up to a point where my arms and left
       hand were beginning to have painful spasms - it was as if the
       Stimulator was now spreading the abnormality around a bit,
       instead of firing it in the one spot that counts. After many
       unsuccessful mis-adjustments of pulse width and amplitude, I
       finally asked the surgeon if my brain could be shrinking, and
       thus changing the position of these important Core Neurons with
       relation to the tips of the implanted wires. He said "impossible
       - think of the wires as two long needles implanted inside a
       cauliflower - it doesn't change". Thinking about this, I thought
       how a cauliflower must shrink as it ages, losing it's moisture
       after it is harvested - I said this to him, but he still
       wouldn't budge.
       What I had wanted the surgeon to do was to switch the
       stimulation over to another one of the four wires on each side -
       this can be done via their computer, which couples magnetically
       to the Stimulator which is installed in my chest, just under the
       skin.. He refused, insisting that because he'd gotten the "sweet
       spot" correct in the beginning, everything is now locked down
       solid and that kind of change isn't required. Besides, he also
       said that I cannot ever again have an MRI and therefore he
       couldn't know which of the other wires to switch to, and the MRI
       would damage the wires, causing them to bend. I think what I
       might be really up against here is Canada's universal health
       care - as good as it is, the public funding required for it is
       what's doing all the shrinking, and in order to perform what I'm
       requesting would require a couple of days and nights in the
       hospital, so they can know if they got it right. I suppose this
       system is trying to avoid as many hospitalizations as possible.
       Just as an aside, when my stimulator (the part locate in my
       chest) was replaced for the first time, due to dying batteries,
       the hospital beds filled up so fast with "emergencies", they
       couldn't provide me a bed for an overnight stay, until the
       sedation wore off. I wonder what these "emergencies" really
       were, which are being paid for completely with Canadian
       Government funding? Anyway, I insisted that they replace the
       unit, with me un-sedated. They warned me it would hurt like hell
       during the procedure, but I was not going to go home with dying
       batteries, so they did the replacement with me receiving
       Acupuncture, instead of sedation. I think I've told of this
       event here before.
       The problem seemed to worsen for awhile, but then stopped
       getting worse in around late 2012. I can live with it, but I
       wake up with extremely painful arms and hands, which goes away
       to some degree as the day progresses. I do need to take
       pain-killers also.
       I can't correlate these changes to changes in my spiritual
       beliefs, which are constantly growing, I think. It was after the
       initial surgery in 2008 when I began believing in UR instead of
       hell-fire. At this time, I also became non-religious and stopped
       going to church, switching my ways so as to get out of the
       self-aggrandizing religious environment, and into a place of
       spiritual service toward men in Prison. My motivation to make
       this change came out of a wonderful thankfulness, and a growing
       love for humanity, as "God so loves the world".
       Maybe my brain is getting bigger, and not smaller? I suppose it
       would have the same effect, changing the position of the wires
       in relation to the "sweet spot" neurons. It is unfortunate that
       I cannot have an MRI so it can be seen what's happening either
       way.
       #Post#: 9125--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: coldwar Date: September 21, 2014, 8:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Observations - so it would seem from this study that
       "Non-Born_Again Protestant" is the thing to be, eh?
       This translates loosely into Episcopal / C of E / Anglican,
       depending where you live; United Methodist / United Church, and
       some Presbyterian. I noticed this:
       "Limitations include the geographically and religiously
       constrained nature of the sample (largely Southeastern
       Protestant Christians), as well as the small sample size of
       participants reporting a life-changing religious experience."
       The limitations would seemingly cancel each other out, if I'm
       reading that correctly.
       I wonder if perceptions of "born again" and "life changing
       religious experience" manifest differently, or similarly? For a
       very long time in my life, I counted myself as "born-again", but
       now tend to play that down - now I'm unsure of what that means -
       Kerry, I see where you're coming from concerning this term, but
       haven't really made up my mind about it, because, whether "born
       again" or not, my religious experience was without a doubt, a
       life-changing conversion with a definite date, time and place
       for me. I freely and gladly say I was "converted"... even after
       changing from hell-fire to UR, I still don't hesitate to use the
       word "converted" regarding my initial experience.
       Perhaps what this study is really seeing is the stubborn refusal
       of "born agains" to change their minds about certain things -
       they're stuck on a 6000 year old earth, they're stuck on
       right-wing politics, they're stuck on anti-abortion, they're
       stuck on specific modes of worship, depending totally on the
       church they were born-again into - things like that. Many
       born-agains (with many exceptions of course) suddenly see
       everything as finalized, set in stone and unchangeable from the
       moment of their conversion experience onward, as if they
       suddenly have come to know everything there is to know - this is
       seen by them as having found rest - a positive thing. I know,
       because I was like that for years.
       But the mind that cannot change cannot grow, right? If the
       growth of mind is stopped, then perhaps this can actually be
       measured by the physical size of certain brain regions.
       #Post#: 9129--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: Kerry Date: September 21, 2014, 11:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=coldwar link=topic=867.msg9125#msg9125
       date=1411305772]
       Observations - so it would seem from this study that
       "Non-Born_Again Protestant" is the thing to be, eh?
       This translates loosely into Episcopal / C of E / Anglican,
       depending where you live; United Methodist / United Church, and
       some Presbyterian. I noticed this:
       "Limitations include the geographically and religiously
       constrained nature of the sample (largely Southeastern
       Protestant Christians), as well as the small sample size of
       participants reporting a life-changing religious experience."
       The limitations would seemingly cancel each other out, if I'm
       reading that correctly.[/quote]I think they would mostly cancel
       each other out.
       [quote]I wonder if perceptions of "born again" and "life
       changing religious experience" manifest differently, or
       similarly?[/quote]Hard to say, really.  They would probably be
       different for different people even inside one particular
       church; but it still poses interesting questions.   What about
       this belief creates this danger?
       [quote]For a very long time in my life, I counted myself as
       "born-again", but now tend to play that down - now I'm unsure of
       what that means - Kerry, I see where you're coming from
       concerning this term, but haven't really made up my mind about
       it, because, whether "born again" or not, my religious
       experience was without a doubt, a life-changing conversion with
       a definite date, time and place for me. I freely and gladly say
       I was "converted"... even after changing from hell-fire to UR, I
       still don't hesitate to use the word "converted" regarding my
       initial experience.[/quote]Their use of the word is not really
       all that Biblical. It  is based on the conversation with
       Nicodemus; and the people who take their belief from that
       passage cannot explain the rest of the passage.   Nor can they
       explain John's comment about the person who is born of the
       Spirit not sinning.
       [quote]Perhaps what this study is really seeing is the stubborn
       refusal of "born agains" to change their minds about certain
       things - they're stuck on a 6000 year old earth, they're stuck
       on right-wing politics, they're stuck on anti-abortion, they're
       stuck on specific modes of worship, depending totally on the
       church they were born-again into - things like that. Many
       born-agains (with many exceptions of course) suddenly see
       everything as finalized, set in stone and unchangeable from the
       moment of their conversion experience onward, as if they
       suddenly have come to know everything there is to know - this is
       seen by them as having found rest - a positive thing. I know,
       because I was like that for years. [/quote]It's a type of
       thinking that in my views seeks solid answers that are based
       more on wishful thinking than real evidence.  Their "self-worth"
       and "future salvation" seems to be tied into those ideas so they
       aren't apt to give them up easily.
       Consider how they used the word "saved" for example.  They speak
       of themselves as being saved already when the Bible (for the
       most part) refers to salvation in the future after finishing the
       race.    Nothing seems able to alter their minds.
       [quote]But the mind that cannot change cannot grow, right? If
       the growth of mind is stopped, then perhaps this can actually be
       measured by the physical size of certain brain regions.[/quote]
       I think maybe the conflict of ideas is what is short-circuiting
       parts of the brain.  "I don't want to think about that" or "I
       can't believe that" seems to be in play.   Their minds seem to
       fear damnation if they doubt some of their closely held beliefs.
       To me, it looks like idolatry of ideas.  I'm not sure they
       even know the real God.  They seem to have ideas about God that
       are substitutes.   They also tend to make an idol of the Bible,
       making various claims -- but then do not really take what it
       says that seriously if it clashes with their ideas that promise
       them they are "saved" and "born again."
       The essential problem seems to be trying to hold to opposing
       ideas at the same time -- what James calls being double minded.
       I sometimes call this dualism.    The idea of being "saved"
       tells them on one hand that they're okay with God; but on the
       other hand, some of them feel terribly unworthy.  Some run
       themselves down as well as everyone else as worthless sinners.
       Their idea seems to be that God is willing to save worthless
       creatures who shouldn't be saved because they're are vile
       beings.  It's a strange idea to me to think that God is going to
       save the wicked if they only say something like "I accept Jesus
       as my savior."
       It may be a "self-esteem" issue at work where people vacillate
       between feeling inferior and superior?
       #Post#: 9352--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Incredible Shrinking Brain
       By: twinc Date: October 19, 2014, 5:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It is quite simple really - it is adult humans who complicate it
       all - it is as per Jn.20:31 but this is seemingly very difficult
       if not impossible for adults as "the sons of reason who take as
       bride knowledge and reject the dream that is denied" oh wisdom
       of the mind of man o'learned talk o ceaseless brain when will we
       learn the hidden plan when will we learn to love again"[Derek
       Neville] - twinc
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