DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Love God Only
HTML https://lovegodonly.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Things of the Spirit
*****************************************************
#Post#: 9000--------------------------------------------------
Jesus Christ
By: Runner Date: September 6, 2014, 9:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So, what do you think/believe?
Did Jesus Christ pay the price for our potential salvation, or
for our actual salvation?
1 Corinthians 5:7
Ephesians 5:2
Hebrews 5:1
Hebrews 7:27
Hebrews 9:26
Hebrews 10:1
Hebrews 10:12
I didn't write these out, as I thought they would 'be alive' and
show up on here, but they don't. Sorry.
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump,
as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed
for us:
2 and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given
himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a
sweetsmelling savour.
5 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men
in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and
sacrifices for sins:
27 who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up
sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the
people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up
himself.
26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of
the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared
to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not
the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices
which they offered year by year continually make the comers
thereunto perfect.
12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for
ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
#Post#: 9001--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Brad Date: September 6, 2014, 10:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We still have choice, and there is the parable of the brides
with the lamps. Some who were chosen as brides didnt make it
in to the wedding feast.
#Post#: 9002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Kerry Date: September 6, 2014, 10:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Jesus mentioned "price":
Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a
merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and
sold all that he had, and bought it.
This is a hard saying. What do we have of any worth that we
can sell?
Then we have Peter's criticism of Ananias:
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine
heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the
price of the land?
Is salvation a one-way street where we take but do not give?
How could we possibly be like Jesus if that is our goal?
#Post#: 9332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Runner Date: October 18, 2014, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[b]I think Jesus paid the price for our actual salvation ( OP)
I think that we are the pearl, and He paid the ultimate price to
gain it.
Malachi 3: - 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one
to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of
remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the
LORD, and that thought upon His name.And they shall be mine,
saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels;
and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth
him.
#Post#: 9334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Kerry Date: October 18, 2014, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Let's take the first passage.
1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is
fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as
named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's
wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he
that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have
judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that
hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered
together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus
Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the
flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord
Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven
leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump,
as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed
for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither
with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the
unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with
fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or
with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then
must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any
man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an
idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with
such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do
not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away
from among yourselves that wicked person.
Was the eating of the Passover lamb enough? If so, why was the
commandment given to rid the house of all yeast?
If Jesus is enough all by himself as the Lamb, why does Paul
here tell people not to keep company with the wrong sorts of
people? He's talking about partaking of Communion, isn't he?
Isn't he telling the people at Corinth not to imagine Communion
is going to save the unrepentant sinner; and trying to keep
such a sinner as part of the Body of Christ endangers the whole
Body.
I think it fair too to say we could apply this to people
individually. Can I cling to sins, which can be compared to
dark spots on white garments, and hope that Jesus is going to
save me?
Also telling is the commandment given by Moses to Israel that
the uncircumcised may not partake of the Passover. To the
Christian, I think this means the person who is unwilling to
circumcise his heart should not partake of Communion; and it
will do him no good if he did.
[hr]
[quote]I think Jesus paid the price for our actual salvation (
OP)
I think that we are the pearl, and He paid the ultimate price to
gain it.[/quote]
I can see how you might come to this conclusion; but it seems a
little self-centered, doesn't it? Are we, as sinners, really
worth that much? Does the universe really revolve around me
the way I'd like it to? I shouldn't have to do anything at
all to be saved? I should expect it all to be done for me?
Somehow, Helen, I don't feel that special. :)
#Post#: 9335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Kerry Date: October 18, 2014, 2:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us,
and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God
for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it
not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which
are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor
covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the
kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these
things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of
disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Again I think we see Jesus being willing to carry the burden of
our past sins but unwilling to keep carrying our burden if we
keep sinning.
#Post#: 9336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Runner Date: October 18, 2014, 3:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with what you say here Kerry. (Whoops, you posted again
while I was writing and getting up and down making a meal!! so
this one is back to the previous post :) )
And for sure we know that bad apples can destroy the whole
barrel. We know in 1 Cor we are told- "Yet not altogether with
the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or
extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out
of the world. I can see that, yet it gives me a bit of a
problem in living it out. If we are going to judge our Christian
brother as sinful and "not eat with them" or mix with them, yet
it is permissible to mix with and eat with "sinners"...how do we
ever 'redeem' our wayward Christian brother?
This guy you quoted that was 'delivered over'..later Paul says
in 2 Cor bring him back ..( I believe it it the same issue he is
addressing) "Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which
was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to
forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be
swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that
ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did
I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be
obedient in all things. To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive
also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your
sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should
get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices."
"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are
spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness;
considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." That can't
happen if we cut off the bad person!
I do agree with " abstain from any appearance of evil" and
walking in the footsteps of Jesus now while on this earth...I
dont see that making any difference to the final outcome of the
salvation of mankind. Everyone will pay the dues owed..then
debts will be forgiven and everyman receive what is laid up for
him. ( or not, as the case may be)
We know that when Paul is saying " Let us keep the feast" he is
speaking of the 'passover feast' which we keep in Christ by
believing in the sacrifiece of the Perfect Lamb, once and for
all. And purge out the old leven, I personally believe, is the
old law and ordinances of our dead works which can never make us
clean.
#Post#: 9338--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Kerry Date: October 18, 2014, 4:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Helen link=topic=859.msg9336#msg9336
date=1413664804]
We know that when Paul is saying " Let us keep the feast" he is
speaking of the 'passover feast' which we keep in Christ by
believing in the sacrifiece of the Perfect Lamb, once and for
all. And purge out the old leven, I personally believe, is the
old law and ordinances of our dead works which can never make us
clean.
[/quote]I take the Catholic position on this. Communion is a
celebration of the Lamb. They exclude some people just as the
Jews excluded the uncircumcised. It is more than "believing."
It is participating -- acting on that belief.
What does purge the "old law and ordinances" mean? Surely not
go break them all. In that passage Paul is saying that some
things are unacceptable. Maybe keeping all the laws and
ordinances can't make you clean from the past offenses; but
surely if we keep stealing, murdering, worshiping idols and all
the other things Paul mentions, we aren't going to be clean
either.
He mentions notorious sinners in the congregation before and
after the leaven, so I take from the context that these sinners
are the leaven that should be gotten rid of.
#Post#: 9342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: Runner Date: October 19, 2014, 9:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We obviously see this quite differently then. As I read Paul he
worked to get the Christians free of the old laws and
observances ..at the beginning he also vacillated between
keeping the old ways and embracing the new...then he had his
revelation of the finished work...encouaging them to 'be not
entagled again with the yoke of bondage.'
I do not believe that Jesus intended us to liturally make a
ritual of drinking wine and eating bread..we DAILY as we live in
Him, eat of the Living Bread and Drink of His Life.
Many hold 'the form' but don't have the life.
As I see it.."the law" ( ten comandment etc) are written in our
hearts. We keep them because we LOVE, we do not keep them to
'become' righteous. HE IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. In the OT man had
to keep himself, sacrifice...yet the blood of bulls and goats
could never take away sin, it just covered sin. On the cross of
Christ man was redeemed , and the account cleared. The blood of
Christ did what the blood of animals could not.
But, I know you don't believe the same here.
#Post#: 9351--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jesus Christ
By: coldwar Date: October 19, 2014, 5:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I go with Helen on this one. Paul's apparent dualism comes from
his frustration he witnesses when certain churches are not
acting according to the promise of the second coming of the Lord
- "Christ in you, the hope of glory"... the Colossians had it,
but the Corinthians obviously needed a lot of work. I don't
think Paul ever intended the churches to have "sacraments" and
"ordinances" put upon them, but rather, expected obedience to
Christ, who had returned to earth in a mystical, but very real
sense (1 Thess 2:19). When the actions of people didn't line up
with the reality of Christ's return, Paul got very expressive,
and when certain churches, most notably Corinth, had no apparent
sensitivity to the indwelling Christ among them (1 Cor 3:16),
but instead, felt that this new "philosophy" was only all about
fleshly freedom, Paul would have to come down on them with very
hard words.
This was not "communion", or in any sense a replacement for the
Passover Feast... It was a full meal. You're so correct Helen in
observing that every time we eat a meal, whether alone or in
fellowship, we are partaking of Christ's body and blood - "as
often as ye eat of it".
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page