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#Post#: 8306--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: coldwar
Date: July 1, 2014, 12:13 pm
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In my last experiences with church a few years ago, I noticed a
trend that preachers were getting "hard on sin". This may seem
odd, or maybe it has something to do with the area I live in
(small cities, smaller towns); people complain otherwise that
churches are getting "soft on sin" and therefore losing God's
blessing. Is this a factor either way, and is there a balance
between the two?
My opinion is that church preachers should not be any harder or
softer on sin as the Bible itself is. When you examine the NT
Epistles, you'll find that "sin" isn't really preached against
as much as I'm seeing today. I'll keep this short and just give
two examples.
First, Paul wrote extensively about sin almost as a doctrine.
Here's one of a great many examples:
2 Cor:5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no
sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
James on the other hand, wrote against certain sins, but not
very much so - here's one example:
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and
are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever
shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is
guilty of all.
Even James' example leads immediately to a doctrine about sin -
"offending in just one point = guilty of all"
So, what I'm getting at is, when the church becomes "hard on
sin", it's offensive. People don't want to leave church every
Sunday feeling shame that is not theirs to bare. Not long ago, a
preacher was always saying "depression is nothing but a sin" and
that "if we're not wearing a smile, we're sinning" (I'm not
making this stuff up). Church demands unattainable and phony
holiness from people, but fail to mention "be ye holy as I am
holy" - we can't do it on our own.
The other extreme is "soft on sin". Churches in other cases (big
cities) are now giving the green light to sin, but often fail to
teach with this that Jesus took away the sin of the world,
leaving people at the ready to sin as much as they want, but
with no gratitude for the Lamb of God. If the doctrine of
propitiation were taught correctly, as I think it once might
have been in the 50's - 70's, people would be living in
gratitude and love for the Lamb, which will itself give power
over sin.
#Post#: 8312--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: July 1, 2014, 12:51 pm
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^ Aren't both approaches to sin bound to fail? I think sin is
what damages people. When people are suffering or in danger of
bringing disaster to themselves and others, that's the time to
try to show them a better way of going about things. Not to
condemn, and not to excuse. I firmly believe when we are
tempted to sin and it's time for us to deal with it, the Holy
Spirit will show us a "way of escape".
If I see someone doing something I think is a sin, I keep my
mouth shut unless I think I can offer them advice that they
might find useful. A man cheating on his wife needs to be
asked, for example, if he's willing to risk his marriage for a
little sex on the side that doesn't matter that much. We all
know too that drug addicts and alcoholics damage themselves.
Why condemn them about that? Why not urge them to stop
self-destructing?
#Post#: 8320--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: coldwar
Date: July 1, 2014, 1:26 pm
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Exactly Kerry, and well put. The Church no longer knows how to
handle sin, if it ever really did at all. The Bible says "there
is NOW no condemnation", but at church, you get either plenty of
condemnation, or the opposite "anything goes, and everything's
OK".
#Post#: 8325--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: Runner
Date: July 1, 2014, 4:21 pm
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Yes, some good posts here...Mike seems to have dropped out of
the conversation! LOL
Re Dave and Kerry's posts...it seems to me that if the devil
cant get you one way, he'll do it the other! He is happy with
polarisation..." if you cant make them sin or backslide, get
them off in a corner so they are powerless."
The church must be in total confusion! In one church they are
peached at to read more bible, pray more hours , give more
money,and do things for the church. The church up the road is
telling it's people that we are all under grace( true) so sin is
no longer and issue, tithing is not an issue, praying can be
bondage, reading the bible daily is legalism, and if they don't
wish to go to church..don't. ( BTW all valid points..but it
would be good if they were also told to HEAR what God's Spirit
told them to do, or not do!!)
So I see churched people going round and round in circles, from
one church to the other..waiting to be told what they should
'really' be doing!
Maybe ALL the churches should be closed for a year..and the
people all 'stay before the Lord' and ask Him what on earth
todays Christianity is all about, ::) and why His Church is so
unfruitful and powerless....and it's people so unhappy.
#Post#: 8329--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: Leaf
Date: July 1, 2014, 4:53 pm
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Just to brag on my church a little more: we had over 20 accept
Christ as their Lord and Savior last year complete with
baptisms. Lives are changed, souls are restored. This year has
not yielded as many, but more continue to be added to the
kingdom and importantly lives are getting straightened out:
addictions overcome, illnesses healed... joy is increasing
steadily.
We aren't soft on sin... recognizing it and not soft pedaling on
it either. We say what God says about it... without condemnation
but instead providing hope, compassion and love.
There's a difference between pointing a finger and portraying
the truth of "having been where they are now at" and the offer
of understanding that goes along with that truth.
#Post#: 8330--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: Leaf
Date: July 1, 2014, 4:57 pm
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Helen,
The thing is, about today's Christianity... God has not changed,
and we need to do things as the early church did.
Nothing has changed. What people believe is possible has
changed. It's almost as if it is thought He is dead. (I just had
a flash of a thought just now... of how Israel was in a dearth
of prophets prior to Christ coming....)
Nevertheless, the suggestion of staying before the Lord for a
year is a grand idea!
#Post#: 8332--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: guest6
Date: July 1, 2014, 5:32 pm
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I look back over the last fifty years or so and it is just
almost unbelievable the changes that I see and the changes in
the Church. I think there are many things that account for this.
I've been reading the headlines for many years and I've noticed
news on tv. Media in all its forms can sway people's beliefs,
opinions and viewpoints where fear and hatred is pushed. The
public school system with its Core Curriculum and I have noticed
the posts of some of my nieces and nephews on Facebook who
attend these schools, very disappointing. Then there is the
entertainment industry with their movies and music; actors and
singers who are idolized by many children and adults. These
actors and singers set the trends and so many want to be like
them. There are more and more violent video games.
I was talking to my daughter and granddaughter about the Poise
commercial and they told me that someone would have to be sick
and twisted to think that commercial was disgusting. We live in
time where in my opinion this scripture is very true. Isa. 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put
darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for
sweet, and sweet for bitter!
We live in a time when we need to be doing a lot of praying, to
be a light and an example of God's love and peace in the world.
#Post#: 8334--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: Leaf
Date: July 1, 2014, 7:23 pm
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Heartsong,
Your comments have caused me to have more empathy about the
issues being presented. I too see the changes and progression of
society over the years.
It is quite possible that I do not have as full a view as all
those who consistently attended church over that time period,
since I only attended for a few years in the late sixties and
very early seventies and only again resumed in 2008 I believe it
was.
Even so, I still think we can each be a positive catalyst
towards the changes we want to see...it is not as easy as
complaining though. I know through experience that being a
witness and praying about what is seen is what causes the needed
changes... God responds to Himself. As I recall, the murmuring
and complaining didn't get Israel anywhere while they were in
the desert. (Psalm 106 comes to mind.)
P.S. Love the addition/edit. :)
#Post#: 8339--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: guest6
Date: July 1, 2014, 8:23 pm
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Yes I agree we can each be a positive catalyst towards the
changes we want to see. I hope that what I said wasn't
interpreted as murmuring or complaining but more as what I have
observed over the last fifty plus years. I have had to learn to
discern spirits and that I have certainly learned. And all
things work for the good of those who love God. :)
#Post#: 8340--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
DIR By: Leaf
Date: July 1, 2014, 8:27 pm
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I didn't see what you said as murmuring or complaining, but as
observational.
Amen! All things work to the good for them that love God! :D
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