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#Post#: 8188--------------------------------------------------
What's happening to the Church?
By: Mike Date: June 29, 2014, 2:02 am
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[font=comic sans ms]More and more I am finding sincere
Christians on forums who have abandoned 'church' as such yet
still long for the church fellowship that once they enjoyed but
are no longer able to find.
So I am wondering whether the prophecy in Amos 8:11-12 might be
something that has already been fulfilled.
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a
famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for
water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall
wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and
shall not find it."
What think ye all?
[/font]
#Post#: 8189--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: James Date: June 29, 2014, 5:25 am
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God says he will send a famine or hunger of hearing not a hunger
of speaking the word.
The meaning in Amos is that these people can not hear or a
better interpretation might be discern the word of the Lord.
It is pretty obvious that on forums you will meet those who are
not happy with church, that's why they are on forums. On the
other hand if you were to visit all the church buildings in your
town you would meet loads of Christians who were tickled pink
with going to church as it met what they were looking for.
Both points of view are wrong of corse since our perspective
should be, not what are we getting out of church but what is the
Lords desire.
You seem in your opening post equate the word of the Lord and
people having the fellowship they desire, whereas it is possible
to have fellowship with Christians where the word is a bit thin
and it is also possible to be in a meeting where the word cuts
like a knife and you know it is the Lord yet the church
fellowship is not there.
I should say imo!
#Post#: 8191--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Mike Date: June 29, 2014, 7:03 am
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[font=comic sans ms]Just after I was born my Father (who worked
in the engineering Department of the local rail company) got
moved to Norwich and my parents bought a bungalow in a new
expanding suburb (£350 in 1936).
One of the leaders in Surrey Chapel Norwich (you can google it)
decided to build a 'daughter chapel' in this new suburb and it
happened to be right opposite my parent's bungalow.
It was there that I found my faith and every evening on the way
home from work I would call into the chapel and spend quiet time
with the Lord before going home.
The members were very strict and devoted and we met three time
on Sundays for worship followed by 'squash' (literally) after
the Sunday evening service at a rotation of member's houses.
Tuesday was prayer meeting, Thursday was Bible Study, and
Saturday was Young People's Fellowship.
Additionally we had Gospel campaigns, consecration meetings, and
performed 'Foot Washing' once per month.
The ladies always wore head coverings in meetings, and some
always did so at home if in the presence of their husbands.
(Also they kept silence in the church.)
Annually the young people always went on holiday together at
various Christian holiday locations.
Our young people's group was larger than the entire congregation
of many local churches.
That's what I miss....they don't make 'em like that
anymore.[/font]
#Post#: 8194--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Jella Date: June 29, 2014, 7:24 am
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<The ladies always wore head coverings in meetings, and some
always did so at home if in the presence of their husbands.
(Also they kept silence in the church.)>
I know I am opening up a can of worms here...but do you believe
this is a practice that has to be evident in churches today in
order for them to be obediant to God?
#Post#: 8195--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Mike Date: June 29, 2014, 8:06 am
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[quote author=Jella link=topic=817.msg8194#msg8194
date=1404044669]
<The ladies always wore head coverings in meetings, and some
always did so at home if in the presence of their husbands.
(Also they kept silence in the church.)>
I know I am opening up a can of worms here...but do you believe
this is a practice that has to be evident in churches today in
order for them to be obediant to God?
[/quote]
No.[font=comic sans ms][/font]
#Post#: 8196--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: meshak Date: June 29, 2014, 8:29 am
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=817.msg8188#msg8188
date=1404025331]
[size=14pt][font=comic sans ms]More and more I am finding
sincere Christians on forums who have abandoned 'church' as such
yet still long for the church fellowship that once they enjoyed
but are no longer able to find.[/quote]
Most churches are just another social club. the church is made
up of all His followers, not in the buildings.
Most churches are not dedicated to be faithful to Jesus, IMO.
#Post#: 8210--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Kerry Date: June 29, 2014, 1:33 pm
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=817.msg8191#msg8191
date=1404043437]
The ladies always wore head coverings in meetings, and some
always did so at home if in the presence of their husbands.
(Also they kept silence in the church.)[/quote]That's a little
odd. The custom Paul was recommending is still observed today
by Orthodox Jewish women who cover their hair in public. The
only man who sees a woman's hair is her husband. This was
because married women should not be dolling themselves up top
make themselves attractive to other men. I've seen a few women
in churches I thought should have gone home and washed off the
excessive makeup and covered more of their bodies if not their
heads. They can be a distraction in churches -- married or
single. If the woman is thinking about attracting men, I'd say
she could attract a fallen angel or two; and if men are thinking
about her, I'd say their minds can't be on what is being talked
about.
The idea is that some beauty should be reserved solely for the
husband. Something of the inner self should be kept private. It
may seem a little strange that in Orthodox Jewish circles, the
women often wear wigs since sometimes the wigs are more
attractive than their real hair. Yet that's how it is -- but
the wig still covers her, and she knows that people are not
invading her privacy since they are not seeing the real her that
should be kept private except for her husband.
HTML http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/336035/jewish/The-Meaning-of-Hair-Covering.htm
#Post#: 8242--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Runner Date: June 30, 2014, 11:02 am
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[quote]quoting Mike...we met three time on Sundays for worship
followed by 'squash' (literally) after the Sunday evening
service at a rotation of member's houses. Tuesday was prayer
meeting, Thursday was Bible Study, and Saturday was Young
People's Fellowship.
Our young people's group was larger than the entire congregation
of many local churches.
That's what I miss....they don't make 'em like that
anymore.[/quote]
[font=comic sans ms]This is something Dave and I have just been
talking about. As we also were "there" too Mike. ( 50's ,60's
and into the early 70's)
What do we think?
1) Is it that 'today' no one is interested so it is not
happening now.
2) Or is it that it was a 'move of God' and He is not moving
like that now?
There was always an excitement about 'going to a meeting' there
was expectancy. AND God always 'showed up' and we knew it!
Today there is no expectancy, and "to me" God is not moving or
doing in this age.
So..... I believe it wasn't a revival as such, but it was the
last breaking wave of the great Latter Rain Movement which swept
through...50' it was still strong...60's it was still exciting
and the presence of God was strong...by the 70's it was still
wonderful but was more 'hit and miss' as the great wave was in
the ebb not the flow.
....and now, today? I believe the tide has gone out as far as
the eye can see. I don't believe God is 'doing' anything much,
except privately one to one...and even then there are long
periods between.
My two cents.
[/font]
#Post#: 8285--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Leaf Date: July 1, 2014, 12:06 am
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I'm bringing my response over from another forum that your
question was posted at Mike. Boy, I almost got confused... lol,
I just knew I had responded to this and didn't see it here!
[quote]Quote by Mike:
More and more I am finding sincere Christians on forums who
have abandoned 'church' as such yet still long for the church
fellowship that once they enjoyed but are no longer able to
find.
So I am wondering whether the prophecy in Amos 8:11-12 might
be something that has already been fulfilled.
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send
a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for
water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall
wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and
shall not find it."
What think ye all?[/quote]
There are still oasis' of living water. That's not to say that
there is not a dearth of them.
I do believe, however, that we can raise up these fountains of
living water through prayer.
[quote]Quote by Mike:
Just after I was born my Father (who worked in the
engineering Department of the local rail company) got moved to
Norwich and my parents bought a bungalow in a new expanding
suburb (£350 in 1936).
One of the leaders in Surrey Chapel Norwich (you can google
it) decided to build a 'daughter chapel' in this new suburb and
it happened to be right opposite my parent's bungalow.
It was there that I found my faith and every evening on the
way home from work I would call into the chapel and spend quiet
time with the Lord before going home.
The members were very strict and devoted and we met three
time on Sundays for worship followed by 'squash' (literally)
after the Sunday evening service at a rotation of member's
houses. Tuesday was prayer meeting, Thursday was Bible Study,
and Saturday was Young People's Fellowship.
Additionally we had Gospel campaigns, consecration meetings,
and performed 'Foot Washing' once per month.
The ladies always wore head coverings in meetings, and some
always did so at home if in the presence of their husbands.
(Also they kept silence in the church.)
Annually the young people always went on holiday together at
various Christian holiday locations.
Our young people's group was larger than the entire
congregation of many local churches.
That's what I miss....they don't make 'em like that
anymore.[/quote]
Except for the silence of the womenfolk, this sounds a lot like
our church days. Yesterday, Sunday, our day began at 9:30am and
finished along about 11:30pm that night. Of that time, only 2
hours were spent at our residence. We have a wide range of ages
as well as a great mix of both men and women. We have a healthy
growing Spirit-filled, bible-based church... for which I am very
grateful; and frequently pray for the continued health of.
I do also think that we each can be a catalyst in creating this
environment at any church, but that can be a slow and arduous
process requiring great patience and a great deal of prayer as
well. The devil is always trying to destroy... and apparently,
all too obviously he has been all too successful. We can take
back what the devil has stolen. We are who have dominion, unless
we give it up.
I noticed last night while we were singing that so many of the
songs had the phrase: "I'm so tired" in them... could this be
the problem?
P.S. and edited to add: In a situation such as a dead church
and going about to revive it, I believe that it would be more
productive and maybe? quicker to pray a church into existence. I
say maybe because while God will go to work quickly on such a
request, it may take you longer to find where it is. Of course,
prayer can assist in that too. Prayer changes things...
especially us! :D Praise God!
#Post#: 8300--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening to the Church?
By: Jella Date: July 1, 2014, 10:12 am
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I apologize, as I am not responding to any one's particular
reply to the OP....but just, IMO, to the OP itself.
Yes, this is a big question today...what IS happening? In my
view the answer stems from what fruit it bears...and I don't see
much fruit...at least here in the USA. There is the moving of
God in individual cases like Helen mentioned, but not
corporately as a nation wide body. So, why is this?
It is very interesting to me that God connotes us with 'things'
that have to be united and healthy to bear fruit (a tree and the
body)...so that we can better see and understand where the
problem might be. He also speaks about what fruit the Holy
Spirit bears, telling us plainly the kind of fruit we (those who
tout having or being filled with the Holy Spirit) should see in
their lives/churches. I believe that it is here...at the root of
things, is where the answer is...at least to a large degree.
I think 'fruit' means a couple different things....as (for
instance) fruit bears fruit (results). If I am eating an apple,
this fruit bears certain vitamins for my body. So, if we were
bearing the fruit God has in mind, then we would be seeing
results.
God has equipped us with so many insights. Therefore, in my
heart and mind, if we truly are filled with the Holy Spirit,
then we will also bear what He bears. Galatians 5: 22 "But the
fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such
things there is no law".
So, what is happening that 'we' are not bearing good fruit? What
is preventing it? Luke 6:43 "A good tree doesn’t produce bad
fruit; on the other hand, a bad tree doesn’t produce good
fruit."
Is it because we are not leaning into Christ, making Him not
just our Savior, but also our Lord & example of how to bear this
fruit in the world? He showed us in so many instances during His
earthly ministry how His love - patience, kindness, and etc...
bore fruit for the Kingdom of God. John 15:5 “I am the vine; you
are the branches. The one who abides in Me and I in him produces
much fruit, because you can do nothing without Me."
It is basically the same in the metaphor of the body. If we are
disconnected...all doing our own thing...then how can we
produce? If I stub my toe my hand goes to that toe right
away...which happens if the body is working properly. But all I
see is disconnection. Churches may show 'love', but it is not in
the way the body works. 'Love' is mostly shown within the
programs that are set up....so, it is shown just at certain
times and places. Sure, this is a way for people to activate
their specific spiritual gifts...and getting together with
others who have the same gifts...but love is a different
thing...as I don't think that love should or really can be
programed. So, what is apparent (to me) is that this is another
reason we see these things happening (or not happening) in the
church today.
1 Cor. 12 "For as the body is one and has many parts, and all
the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is
Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one
body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were
all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 So the body is not one part
but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I’m not a hand, I
don’t belong to the body,” in spite of this it still belongs to
the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I’m not an
eye, I don’t belong to the body,” in spite of this it still
belongs to the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where
would the hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would
the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed each one of
the parts in one body just as He wanted. 19 And if they were
all the same part, where would the body be? 20 Now there are
many parts, yet one body.
21 So the eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” Or
again, the head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22
But even more, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker
are necessary. 23 And those parts of the body that we think to
be less honorable, we clothe these with greater honor, and our
unpresentable parts have a better presentation. 24 But our
presentable parts have no need of clothing. Instead, God has put
the body together, giving greater honor to the less honorable,
25 so that there would be no division in the body, but that the
members would have the same concern for each other. 26 So if
one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one
member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you
are the body of Christ, and individual members of it."
I got saved in the later 70's and the teaching we had was
in-depth...and was truly out of this world! I wish there was
such teaching today...teaching that helped people see and
understand how the Kingdom of God works from 'beginning to end'.
IMO,
Jella :)
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