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#Post#: 7837--------------------------------------------------
What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: CinderAsh Date: June 13, 2014, 8:20 pm
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Acts13:
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the
word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life
believed.
Did these Gentiles have to be appointed before they believed?
Quick definitions from WordNet (appointed)
▸ adjective: fixed or established especially by order or
command ("At the time appointed (or the appointed time")
▸ adjective: subject to appointment
#Post#: 7855--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Kerry Date: June 14, 2014, 8:24 am
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I would say everyone must be "ordained" or "appointed" to
believe before they can. Some are not able to believe no
matter what. It doesn't mean they will be damned -- don't think
that since God is not willing that any should perish. It means
some people would be worse off if they believed prematurely. If
there is no chance that someone could be strong enough to
survive, he does not receive the seed of immortality. As it
is, some receive the seed and the seed perishes for one reason
or another. That is a sin held against that person. It is a
grave sin. For once having the truth and then rejecting it is
worse than never having had it.
Thus God in His Infinite Mercy does not offer eternal life to
all in this life. It is a mercy for some people to be blind
spiritually. God does not have to judge them then.
Consider what Abraham was told about his offspring how they
would be strangers in a strange land for hundreds of years.
Surely they knew some things; but it was necessary for them to
"sojourn" for a while and then go into Egypt and become the
slaves of Pharaoh. Consider now how the vast majority of them
over the age of twenty perished in the wilderness while those
under the age of twenty entered the Land of Promise. Shall we
say God is unjust? Surely not. There is a plan at work here.
All Israel will be saved, but still most of the adults in Israel
perished in the wilderness. It was not yet their time. Some
say they "wandered in the wilderness." God forbid! They did
not wander. They followed the Pillar. God did not desert them
but led them like a shepherd leading a flock. Indeed the word
used is "grazed." Translations say "wander" but it is really
"graze." They grazed like sheep and were fed by manna. Check
out how this word is used elsewhere:
HTML http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7462&t=KJV
Who will receive eternal life in this life is usually worked out
before birth, indeed usually before conception even. We are
given the right parents, the right economic conditions, etc.
God provides exactly what we need although it may perplex us.
Can things change after someone is born? Yes. I would say the
woman Jesus used the word "dog" to got her fate changed. She
had not been appointed to anything. But she had done well in
her life with what she had been given -- so Heaven was willing
to revise its verdict and grant her more.
Paul was certainly appointed but had to be clobbered over the
head to comply. That was not overriding his free will. Paul
had already agreed to things before he was born -- but then was
slow in complying when called. Jonah? We are told about a
vow he made and that he would honor it; but we aren't told what
that vow was. I would guess it was the vow at Sinai when the
people standing there and the people not standing there took the
vow. It was more than the people in physical bodies taking the
vow.
Deuteronomy 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant
and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the
Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this
day:
It was also many more than the original 144,000 who had been
elect from the very beginning. Many more souls had been added
to that original number. There were 600,000 men, not counting
the women and children and the souls not in bodies.
The sequence is foreknow, predestinate, called, justified and
glorified.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the
firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and
whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified,
them he also glorified.
Does the Spirit "know" everyone? Well, in a way I guess; but in
another way, Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not. Jesus said he
will tell some people to depart, he never knew them. To get
born elect, one must be known by God before being born. That
person's life is planned -- his goals are set. Then after being
born and living for a while, he is "called" as the disciples of
Jesus were.
#Post#: 7862--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Runner Date: June 14, 2014, 1:59 pm
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Hi Kerry...I enjoyed your post, very good...I have picked out a
couple of points I do not see the same way. As one cannot
discuss that which is agreed upon..well we could, as you had
some very good points, I could pick them out and post them back
to you! :D
[quote]quote Kerry...Thus God in His Infinite Mercy does not
offer eternal life to all in this life. It is a mercy for some
people to be blind spiritually. God does not have to judge
them then.
[/quote] I am not sure I believe that. I DO believe that He
offers everyone eternal life through a living relationship, now,
in this life. I believe that that is what "life is all about".
I DO agree and believe that there is a level of spiritual
blindness upon some people.
My question is , Does that come from God or the enemy? I think
spiritual blindness is of the enemy..but maybe through a chink
in the flesh that the person chose and gave a foothold to the
enemy. Maybe in youth.
[quote]quote Kerry...
All Israel will be saved, but still most of the adults in Israel
perished in the wilderness. It was not yet their time. [/quote]
I do not believe that it was "not their time". I think there
could have been many more of Joshua's and Caleb's generation
that entered in. Just two!!? ::)
I believe it was "by choice", not timing.
" Deut 8
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led
thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to
prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou
wouldest keep his commandments, or no."
They would not be humbled, and obviously said No to keeping
God's ways.
Their own heart keep them out, not timing!! ( like the majority
of people today!)
As I see it.
They lost the first prize.
#Post#: 7863--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: coldwar Date: June 14, 2014, 2:31 pm
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As you've all said, it has everything to do with "time" (and
place). We who are appointed now, during the "time of the
Gentiles" are also called "first fruits". The 144,000 were
called "first fruits"; immediately after these ar so-called, we
see a great multitude which no man can number in white robes
with palm branches singing the song of the redeemed. and Peter
said "we are a "kind of first fruits". Paul said "for as in Adam
all have died, so also in Christ, all shall be made alive, but
every one in their own order; "Christ the first fruits (and
implied with what Peter says, all we who are with Him now, make
up the appointed first fruits of this age). There is also a time
when "all Israel shall be saved" at their appointed time, and
there is also a future age known as the "dispensation of the
fullness of time" (Eph 1:10) in which all remaining will become
one with God.
I think there are also some (a minority) who are un-redeemable -
they are not subject to God's judgment, but only to his
immediate wrath when Christ returns after gathering all his
elect from the four winds - the sheep (redeemable) and the goats
(un-redeemable) are simply separated, and without any account of
their works being allowed, Christ will tell their works to them
- to the sheep he will say "you did, therefore come into my
life" but to the goats he will say "you didn't, so go into
everlasting torment." The goats are also the "tares" planted by
Satan in with the wheat. They're Satan's seed ("God said to the
serpent "behold I will put enmity between your seed and her
seed""). This is why they are immediately condemned without even
being judged.
#Post#: 7864--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Kerry Date: June 14, 2014, 2:53 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=776.msg7862#msg7862
date=1402772377]
Hi Kerry...I enjoyed your post, very good...I have picked out a
couple of points I do not see the same way. As one cannot
discuss that which is agreed upon..well we could, as you had
some very good points, I could pick them out and post them back
to you! :D[/quote]Fair enough.
[quote]quote Kerry...Thus God in His Infinite Mercy does not
offer eternal life to all in this life. It is a mercy for some
people to be blind spiritually. God does not have to judge
them then.
[/quote]I am not sure I believe that. I DO believe that He
offers everyone eternal life through a living relationship, now,
in this life. I believe that that is what "life is all
about".[/quote]
The father did not go chasing after the prodigal son. I think
God is like that. God is not in a hurry; and He knows someday
the prodigal son will return. So he waits just like the father
did in that story; and when God sees someone coming towards him,
He "runs to meet" him just like the father in that story.
[quote]I DO agree and believe that there is a level of spiritual
blindness upon some people.
My question is , Does that come from God or the enemy? I think
spiritual blindness is of the enemy..but maybe through a chink
in the flesh that the person chose and gave a foothold to the
enemy. Maybe in youth. [/quote]What we call "the enemy" also
serves God by chastising us. If we want to act like the Devil,
then why shouldn't we know what it's like to have the Devil come
after us? Satan's power over man depends on our choices. If
we say, "No," then I say "Let God be true, and every man a
liar."
When Paul talked about delivering people to Satan, I think he
was doing them a favor. They weren't benefiting from the
spiritual protection Paul could give them as a shepherd -- and
yes, saints can give other people some degree of spiritual
protection -- and yes, sometimes it costs the saints a great
deal. If someone is acting like the Devil and I have him under
my protection, that person is summoning the Dark Side -- and I
have to be ready to deal with it when it shows up at my
doorstep.
[quote][quote]quote Kerry...
All Israel will be saved, but still most of the adults in Israel
perished in the wilderness. It was not yet their time. [/quote]
I do not believe that it was "not their time". I think there
could have been many more of Joshua's and Caleb's generation
that entered in. Just two!!? ::)
I believe it was "by choice", not timing.[/quote]True, they
could have been more. But I think they learned one of life's
most valuable lessons.
[quote]" Deut 8
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led
thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to
prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou
wouldest keep his commandments, or no."
They would not be humbled, and obviously said No to keeping
God's ways.
Their own heart keep them out, not timing!! ( like the majority
of people today!)
As I see it.
They lost the first prize.[/quote]
Did they? Paul says all Israel will be saved. So what did
they learn? Love.
[b]John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay
down his life for his friends.
They grumbled about cucumbers and leeks. They said they wanted
to go back to Egypt. They had the wrong mindset. But when it
came to it, they chose to love their children. If they went
back to Egypt and took their children with them, their children
couldn't enter the Land of Promise. If they were willing to die
in the wilderness as they had requested, their children would.
Is this not the same kind of love Paul felt for his brothers
when he said he would risk losing his own salvation to save
them? I believe they learned the hard way to value the welfare
of their children over cucumbers and leeks for their bellies.
I must ask then why shouldn't God offer them salvation later?
#Post#: 7865--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Kerry Date: June 14, 2014, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=coldwar link=topic=776.msg7863#msg7863
date=1402774284]
As you've all said, it has everything to do with "time" (and
place). We who are appointed now, during the "time of the
Gentiles" are also called "first fruits". The 144,000 were
called "first fruits"; immediately after these ar so-called, we
see a great multitude which no man can number in white robes
with palm branches singing the song of the redeemed. and Peter
said "we are a "kind of first fruits". Paul said "for as in Adam
all have died, so also in Christ, all shall be made alive, but
every one in their own order; "Christ the first fruits (and
implied with what Peter says, all we who are with Him now, make
up the appointed first fruits of this age). There is also a time
when "all Israel shall be saved" at their appointed time, and
there is also a future age known as the "dispensation of the
fullness of time" (Eph 1:10) in which all remaining will become
one with God.
I think there are also some (a minority) who are un-redeemable -
they are not subject to God's judgment, but only to his
immediate wrath when Christ returns after gathering all his
elect from the four winds - the sheep (redeemable) and the goats
(un-redeemable) are simply separated, and without any account of
their works being allowed, Christ will tell their works to them
- to the sheep he will say "you did, therefore come into my
life" but to the goats he will say "you didn't, so go into
everlasting torment." The goats are also the "tares" planted by
Satan in with the wheat. They're Satan's seed ("God said to the
serpent "behold I will put enmity between your seed and her
seed""). This is why they are immediately condemned without even
being judged.
[/quote]Yes, or at least mostly yes to all that; but God does
not judge until the tares reveal themselves. Up to a certain
point, many people can go either way. I believe when God sees
someone whose heart is so hard that it's next to impossible for
him to change, action must be taken especially if that person
is a leader of others like Pharaoh. His fate is almost certain
no matter how many more chances he would get; and it's better
for others to bring him to destruction. The tares have revealed
themselves, and you want to remove them before they cast their
seeds.
You distinguish between the 144,000 of Israel and the countless
multitude. Good. I believe they are connected. (I believe you
do too if memory serves me right.) The countless Gentiles would
not be there had not the 144,000 done their jobs. Jew and
Gentile go into the kingdom hand-in-hand. In the time of
Moses, the world was "divided" and assigned -- according to the
numbers of Israel. Each tribe, even each person, had his
assignment.
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided to the nations their
inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the
bounds of the people according to the number of the children of
Israel.
The problem in Jesus' day is that Israel mostly wanted to hole
up in Palestine and not go out into the nations to do their job.
They were like the people at the Tower of Babel. So Jesus said
his primary mission was to the lost sheep of Israel. He did not
come to "save the world." He came though so that the world
might be saved; and for that to happen, he had to wake up the
lost sheep , instruct them and get them to be shepherds also.
Jesus said in his prayer in the Gospel of John that he was not
praying for the world -- not at that point. He was praying for
those who were not of this world. And he also prayed that they
stay in the world! Had God taken all of them to Heaven
quickly, who then would spread the Gospel to the world?
#Post#: 7875--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Runner Date: June 14, 2014, 6:13 pm
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[quote]quote Kerry...The father did not go chasing after the
prodigal son. I think God is like that. God is not in a
hurry; and He knows someday the prodigal son will return. So he
waits just like the father did in that story; and when God sees
someone coming towards him, He "runs to meet" him just like the
father in that story.
[/quote]
No..I am beeping you on this one...you can't use that! This
story is about this earth...the prodigal was saved at the end of
the story on this earth..not in the sweet By and By...
[quote] I must ask then why shouldn't God offer them salvation
later?
[/quote]
Oh I fully think that He does...but He doesn't FIRST offer it
later...He offers it in this life...if they refuse Him they have
lost out. They miss a chance at the 'first' resurrection. They
miss a chance of Bridehood. I do believe that they get a second
chance, I don't believe that second chance if the "first
encounter". I could be wrong...we shall see :D
I just don't believe that He blinds them to the truth on 'this
side'.
I am not totally settled on the issue of "equal calling"...I do
see that not all were called as Peter, James and John were, to
go up the Mount with Him...so, on that count I can see that He
chose not to invite some...but I have not worked out the 'why of
it'...ie, was on their side or His? Did the other not quite have
the same heart, or what? Why were some taken and some
denied...still not there and settled yet on that.
#Post#: 7878--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Kerry Date: June 14, 2014, 6:47 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=776.msg7875#msg7875
date=1402787585]
No..I am beeping you on this one...you can't use that! This
story is about this earth...the prodigal was saved at the end of
the story on this earth..not in the sweet By and By...
[/quote]He was "saved" after he decided to return home. For me,
living among the pigs is choosing to live on the earth; and
deciding to go home was deciding to try to reconcile with God.
The brother who doesn't understand is the angels perhaps who do
not understand the love that comes from understanding sin and
forgiveness the way humans who sin much and then are forgiven
do. And for me, the "fatted calf" is Jesus who suffered
outside the gate like the red heifer.
You would need to go through the story and tell me what all the
details mean to you if you want to convince me. I say it
teaches, "Draw nigh unto God and He will draw nigh unto you."
We must want something better than living in a world that
resembles a sty at times.
[quote]Oh I fully think that He does...but He doesn't FIRST
offer it later...He offers it in this life...if they refuse Him
they have lost out.[/quote]What about people who lived before
Jesus and people who never heard of him?
[quote] They miss a chance at the 'first' resurrection. They
miss a chance of Bridehood. I do believe that they get a second
chance, I don't believe that second chance if the "first
encounter". I could be wrong...we shall see :D
I just don't believe that He blinds them to the truth on 'this
side'.
I am not totally settled on the issue of "equal calling"...I do
see that not all were called as Peter, James and John were, to
go up the Mount with Him...so, on that count I can see that He
chose not to invite some...but I have not worked out the 'why of
it'...ie, was on their side or His? Did the other not quite have
the same heart, or what? Why were some taken and some
denied...still not there and settled yet on that.[/quote]God is
no respecter of persons. When Jesus came, the disciples were
already his sheep since he said, "My sheep know my voice and
come at my call." I don't think that means God has favorites.
It means to me they had already made right choices -- and having
been faithful in smaller things, they were then given greater
responsibility.
A person must first be willing to have God exist and must want
love to be possible. Then he turns around and around, looking.
Is God there? Is love really possible? Then God can draw him.
He becomes elect at that point. He is "known" to God in a way
he wasn't before. If someone has no relationship with God, God
stays away. Some say God "foreknows" everyone; but the text
says something else. Only those whom He foreknows are
predestinated, etc. It's our choice, not God's. God is not
willing that any should perish, so we can't blame God for
anything.
To me, it is foolish to say God "foreknew" that some people
would not be saved, could not be saved and yet brought them into
existence! What would we think of a car manufacturer that
deliberately made half its cars defective and so defective they
would never work right? We would think them mad. So why
should we think God would make anyone who could not be saved --
and He knew it when He made them.
#Post#: 7881--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: Runner Date: June 14, 2014, 11:42 pm
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Okay, I can now see more where you are coming from.
[quote]quote Kerry..What about people who lived before Jesus and
people who never heard of him?
[/quote]
My default for that is always Romans 1 20 "For the invisible
things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal
power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
We know that even the American Indians worshipped " The Great
White Spirit"
As 'someone' said.." A rose by any other name, is still a rose."
#Post#: 7882--------------------------------------------------
Re: What does it mean by "appointed"?
By: CinderAsh Date: June 15, 2014, 12:57 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=776.msg7855#msg7855
date=1402752284]
Who will receive eternal life in this life is usually worked out
before birth, indeed usually before conception even. We are
given the right parents, the right economic conditions, etc.
God provides exactly what we need although it may perplex us.
Can things change after someone is born? Yes.
[/quote]
I would agree things can change.
If we read the bible we see no mention of modern conveniences.
We read of horses and chariots and swords and shields but
nothing of cars or aircraft or guns or tanks, skyscrapers, ocean
liners, phones, televisions, toasters, electricity. God would
know of such things.
I suspect the biblical times were to end soon as everyone kind
of expected.
Jesus didn't know of the time and I expect the absorption and
expression of God in Jesus's entire life affected God in curbing
his wrath.
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing”
may of had a profound effect on God.
We as Christians by faith in Jesus being true to His word can
alter destiny perhaps.
18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound
in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in
heaven.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree
about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my
Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name,
there am I with them.”
We could go on exponentially with two or three gathering in
Jesus's name.
The appointed could be indirectly appointees by testifying and
assisting others to believe.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to
be the Savior of the world.
So people who are not appointed before time or birth can be
saved by the appointed who testify.
The world can be under mercy, grace or could even be saved as
suggested by no mod cons mentioned and the end that was so near
not an end at all.
Yet!
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