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#Post#: 7801--------------------------------------------------
Chivalry
By: Jella Date: June 13, 2014, 1:05 am
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Years ago when I was in a Christian singles group...as well as
part of the leadership...I noticed that some of the fellows that
came were very considerate...opened the door for instance...for
us women. They made it a regular practice. I also noticed that
some of the women in particular were very 'taken' by it to the
point where I could see that it made a major impact on their
lives. Subsequently I got to thinking the positive impact these
types of men could have on women....in particular, women who
because of their bad experiences (with abusive fathers,
(ex)-husbands or boyfriends), had a pattern of getting involved
with these same types of men over and over again...no matter how
hurt they got each time. They also seemed to have a tendency to
see God as a harsh-type God.
These women didn't just need to see that there actually were
good men out there...but, what they needed to see and experience
even more was that they were worthy of being treated with
kindness and respect.
So when I was asked to share at one of the meetings I decided to
speak about this and to the guys most of all...(well, of course
knowing that the women would be listening too.) I asked them to
consider their chivalry to be something that helps (at least to
some degree) bring healing to women...and perhaps prepare them
for a loving Godly man, so instead of automatically going back
and repeating old and familiar patterns (like what some women
had already experienced)...they will have had some good
experiences too - to possibly help them make better choices. I
also wanted the men to see that their kind gestures meant
something...and to some women they meant a lot.
Question? Do you think we can help each other heal, by how we
treat one another? What kind of power (biblically) do we have
with one another?
Do you think that Godly men can help their sisters in Christ be
more prepared for the man God has or wants for them?
Do you think that if a woman is already married, but to an
abusive man, that she would perhaps be more able to make
positive moves...set better boundaries...for the safety of
herself and her kids - by witnessing the behaviors of Godly men?
Can Godly men have a kind of power that other (worldly) men
don't/can't have?
What, to you, is a Godly man?
#Post#: 7802--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 13, 2014, 2:44 am
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Hello Jella and welcome to the forum. :) My granddaughter has
gone to visit her father. He and my daughter are divorced and he
has remarried. My daughter told me that he has put his wife on
computer restriction. She was concerned because she didn't want
my granddaughter to see that as a normal and good way for a wife
to be treated. His wife is okay with it and even said she
deserved it. She told my daughter that it would be good for my
granddaughter to be aware of that kind of relationship and
marriage. I do know that my ex son in law is abusive and
controlling. I don't know very much about his wife except that
she is half his age. I'm not sure how much that has to do with
it but I imagine it makes it easier for him to control her. They
have two small daughters. So their daughters are being
conditioned to accept this type of treatment from men from
watching their father. This is not being taken into
consideration or if it is then it is seen as a good thing. The
cycle is continued that way. They also learn from their mother
by the way she reacts and relates to this kind of treatment.
I think anytime a kindness is extended to another human being
that it has a positive impact. The scriptures say to love your
neighbor as yourself and to do unto others as you would have
them do unto you. I think if people really did that then there
would be more loving relationships and happier marriages.
#Post#: 7807--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: Jella Date: June 13, 2014, 6:30 am
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Heartsong, thank you for the greeting!! I also agree with
you...that we can obey the 1st commandment and therefore make a
big difference in the world for God's Kingdom. I truly believe
that God's kind of love...the love that the Holy Spirit
bears...and can bear in and through us...is a power. I think
that is why the 1st Commandment is all about love...because it
is so powerful, that is - if we engage it.
From the slightest smile...to the biggest gesture...God's love
can change people...even the hardest of hearts.
I'm sure you're praying for that young wife and her two little
ones...I will too. I know God can change hearts...not force
(although He will, like He did Pharaoh, but most of the time
not)...but work in their hearts till they give in. I pray too
that God protects the hearts of those little ones and brings
into their lives some good, Godly-loving men (uncles, neighbors,
teachers or etc.) that they can remember and glean from...and
tuck inside their hearts for when they need them. I think the
biggest shame is that the father's behavior will also effect
their view of God...taint their view of God's love and grace
towards them.
Bless you! Heartsong!
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 7817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 13, 2014, 8:09 am
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Thank you. Your prayers are appreciated.
[URL=
HTML http://s779.photobucket.com/user/kattsue_2009/media/smilies2/emoticon-0152-heart.gif.html][IMG]http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy76/kattsue_2009/smilies2/emoticon-0152-heart.gif[/img][/URL]
#Post#: 7828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: Kerry Date: June 13, 2014, 2:50 pm
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I would hesitate to make a generalization.
I think there's a reason some women go from one abusive
relationship to another. I heard a woman say one day she was
angry that her man was cheating on her because she thought he'd
be faithful to her if she let him beat her. She thought that
was some kind of favor to him, I guess, and if she took it
without complaining he wouldn't ever want another woman.
Incredible? Yes. But I've seen lots of crazy things.
I used to live in an apartment building; and the people across
the hall had had a party of sorts the day before with a keg of
beer. I started hearing things one evening when I heard the
woman demanding to know where the man had been. I think they
were both sober at the time. She didn't believe him; and the
conversation got louder and louder. I'd say she provoked the
argument. Then she took the tap out of the beer keg and hit him
over the head with it. At that point, he started hitting her.
She called the police and when they came, they were grilling
him and threatening to arrest him. At that point, she started
screaming at the cops to let her beloved alone. The cops asked
him to go downstairs and wait for them; and that is what he did.
He could have fled the scene, but he was alone down there
waiting for them. The woman went wild, and they had to subdue
her and they took her away on a stretcher.
When I left the building, the man was still downstairs and the
police were talking to him. For some reason, that conversation
went crazy and the cops sprayed him with pepper spray and
arrested him.
I had the feeling this woman could play the guilt card with that
man. If he hit her, she could make him feel bad later -- and
that gave her some kind of power. It may have to do with how
people are raised as children or the culture? If a young girl
finds the only way to get something she wants is to let others
abuse her and then make amends, she may seek out men who will
abuse her.
The abused and the abuser sometimes seem to go together like a
set of salt and pepper shakers. In other cases, women feel they
can't leave an abusive husband for one reason or another.
Can good godly women make a difference? I think so; I'd say
the abused woman who is attracted to abusive men could "see the
light" by talking to the wives of some good men.
#Post#: 7829--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: Jella Date: June 13, 2014, 3:52 pm
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Kerry, agreed! Of course we cannot generalize...and there are
always exceptions, as in your example of your neighbors.
However, I would still argue (well, state:) that men play a big
role in women's lives whether women want to admit it or not.
From the time a girl is born how she is treated by men
specifically will have an impact on who they choose to be
involved with as they grow...through teen-hood and then
adulthood.
I would even say that the neighbor women you spoke of probably
had poor examples of how men should treat women, as she grew
up...as our specific behaviors come from somewhere. It is
because we have a nature that is prone to sin...is why we are
fragile enough morally that what we have had exemplified to us
is what we take in and live by - no matter how sinful or stupid.
"Train up a child in the way he should go..." is the only
way...not meaning we have to be perfect, as that is
impossible...but it can make a big difference in what direction
a child takes as they grow.
My thoughts..
Blessings!
Jella
#Post#: 7832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: Kerry Date: June 13, 2014, 4:49 pm
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One of the people I would call a best friend is in prison now
and will probably be there for life. He was raised in what I
could only call a very dysfunctional family.
When he was young, his father was a complete drunk, and his
mother put up with it. On the surface, people might have
looked at her as being long-suffering or worried about her two
children. Could be, but she was also a person who seldom said
anything honest outright. So anyway, his father finally quit
drinking. On his own. When he did, he couldn't tolerate his
wife. He divorced her.
It gets interesting in that my friend also became a drunk. The
first hint I had that he had a violent streak in him was when he
told me that a girl had told him (when he was sober) that he had
beat her up when he was drunk. I don't remember that too well
since I didn't know the girl; but I think she had the sense to
end the relationship. The interesting part is how he seemed to
imitate his father.
He had two sides to him, that's for sure. His mother remained
someone who liked to control people using subtle means; and his
father though sober had become a self-righteous judgmental guy.
His sister turned out best -- she got into a lesbian
relationship --- shocking many people -- but she got away from
the unhealthy influences of the family. I only met her twice
since she lived in California, but she was well balanced -- and
I think he could have been too if he could have somehow gotten
over the scars of childhood.
He also got involved with crack -- and one night he got violent
when he was living with me and wrecked the house. I just left.
I think he was looking for a fight; and he was younger than I
was and could have beaten me up for sure. But I thought at the
time how dangerous he could be. And so I had to ask him to
move out. A few years later he murdered a woman because he
asked her for a few dollars to get drugs with and she said no.
Then he called his sister and told her the whole story; and she
then called the police. She did the right thing. I admire her
for that. I know it wasn't easy for her.
I'd say he had a blind spot about his mother. He thought she
was kind and tolerant. I couldn't stand her. When he came to
pick up his things to move back in with his mother, she looked
at something of his and said in a real snooty way, "Don't take
that. We'd only have to throw it out." It wasn't good enough
for her. What a put-down. But she'd leave it at my house to
throw out?
How children are raised is definitely a factor. There seem to
be men who think the "secret fantasy" of women is to be
dominated. That no woman could respect a man who wasn't
aggressive or even abusive at times. I still hear people
saying a man couldn't rape his wife, ever. To them, it's
something that isn't possible. It seems to to be a way of
thinking that they can't get over. There are men and women who
say this, although it seems more men think that way. You
probably heard about the guy running for the Senate who said
that. Phyllis Schlafly said it too.
She also said once that sexual harassment was not a problem for
virtuous women. What a statement. In other words, men should
be allowed to do as they please, and a "virtuous woman" needn't
worry about a thing. I can only think her way of thinking is
the result of how she was brought up. That just doesn't make
sense, at least not to me.
But it's the way men still act in some countries: Women are
still getting sexually assaulted in Tahrir Square in public in
Egypt. The men figure if a woman is there, she's "asking for
it." We read the horrifying the stories in places like India
too. There is some hope though -- women are getting tired of
this sort of thing; and many men are too since they can see that
could be their sisters, their daughters or their wives.
The old way of thinking appears to be on the way out; but
society still has its victims. The idea that a woman is a
second-class citizen who should act like a slave or something is
becoming less feasible to most people; but there are still the
die-hard people. I was stunned to hear that fellow from Duck
Dynasty say men should marry girls at 15. To me, that tells
me he's a little insecure as a man (unrealistic goals about what
it means to be a man) and wants someone he can influence or
brainwash. A man might not hit his wife just because she was
15 when he married her; but my guess is such a man would be more
apt to hit his wife or subject her to some other kind of abuse
-- especially if she decided she wanted to stop being treated
like a slave or plaything.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXZYDv3uD0Q
#Post#: 7843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: Jella Date: June 13, 2014, 10:16 pm
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I recently left an abusive marriage. This has actually been a
pattern of mine...abusive men. I met my 1st husband at a church
singles group....and we were both very involved in the group and
the church. He was so manipulative and emotionally abusive that
I would end up on the floor in the bathroom curled up in a ball
sobbing and not being able to stop. After 11 years of this...and
getting to the point of wanting to take my own life...and even
though I knew that the 2 churches I was involved in (mine and my
parents) would disapprove...I left. Then, the Christians that I
thought truly cared about me shunned me.
My second husband, who I married knowing down deep he was not
the one for me, was also very arrogant, controlling, verbally
abusive and oppressive. He passed away in May of last year and
then within a short time I remarried a widower...and this guy
even put his fist in my face and asked me, "would I rather be
punched in the face with his fist, or punched in my heart with
words?"...and then would call me every name in the book, and
etc. and etc..
I am sharing this openly because I want to share the very
important premise that we do repeat (to at least some degree)
what we learned from childhood...until God gets a hold of us. I
learned from my father that I was an inconvenience, a bother,
unlovable, in the way, not pretty, stupid, and not truly wanted
or a real part of the family. I remember him saying to me once
that "This house was not mine, and nothing in this house was
mine either - I just lived here."
Many people are in certain sins because it is all they know...
Children learn what reality is by the ones who raise them. The
parents or caregivers shape the child's view of reality....this
is why I repeated certain patterns over and over again until I
was willing to hear the truth...as before it was so ingrained in
me that I didn't deserve anything better, that I chose to jump
into unhealthy situations and ignore red flags. God in His grace
and mercy continued to stay with me through thick and thin and
not give up on me. It was His love that made the difference.
#Post#: 7845--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: Leaf Date: June 13, 2014, 10:39 pm
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[quote]Many people are in certain sins because it is all they
know... [/quote]
This is so true.
And, sometimes they don't even know they are in sin/error.
"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."
#Post#: 7846--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 14, 2014, 1:14 am
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I was in an abusive relationship and was trapped for awhile,
really too long. But I am no longer in that relationship.
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