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       #Post#: 7793--------------------------------------------------
       Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Kerry Date: June 12, 2014, 11:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I do not understand Phyllis Schlafly, I must say.  When her
       father died, her mother had to work to support the family.  Yet
       Schlafly argues that paying women less for the same work is a
       good thing.  She says it leads to happier marriages.  From
       christianpost.com
  HTML http://www.christianpost.com/news/facts-and-fallacies-about-paycheck-fairness-117959/:
       Another fact is the influence of hypergamy, which means that
       women typically choose a mate (husband or boyfriend) who earns
       more than she does. Men don't have the same preference for a
       higher-earning mate.
       While women prefer to HAVE a higher-earning partner, men
       generally prefer to BE the higher-earning partner in a
       relationship. This simple but profound difference between the
       sexes has powerful consequences for the so-called pay gap.
       Suppose the pay gap between men and women were magically
       eliminated. If that happened, simple arithmetic suggests that
       half of women would be unable to find what they regard as a
       suitable mate.
       Obviously, I'm not saying women won't date or marry a
       lower-earning men, only that they probably prefer not to. If a
       higher-earning man is not available, many women are more likely
       not to marry at all.
       I don't understand that.  Nor this:
       The pay gap between men and women is not all bad because it
       helps to promote and sustain marriages. Since husband and wife
       generally pool their incomes into a single economic unit, what
       really matters is the combined family income, not the pay gap
       between them.
       In two segments of our population, the pay gap has virtually
       ceased to exist. In the African-American community and in the
       millennial generation (ages 18 to 32), women earn about the same
       as men, if not more.
       It just so happens that those are the two segments of our
       population in which the rate of marriage has fallen the most.
       Fifty years ago, about 80 percent of Americans were married by
       age 30; today, less than 50 percent are.
       Just a coincidence? I think not. The best way to improve
       economic prospects for women is to improve job prospects for the
       men in their lives, even if that means increasing the so-called
       pay gap.
       The real economic story of the past 30 years is that women's pay
       has effectively risen to virtual parity, but men's pay has
       stagnated and thousands of well-paid blue-collar jobs have been
       shipped to low-wage countries. Nobody should be surprised that
       the marriage rate has fallen, the age of first marriage has
       risen, and marriage, in general, has become unstable.
       Somehow I don't think keeping women poor and needing a man to
       support them financially is a key to having good marriages.  I
       just don't.
       #Post#: 7794--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Leaf Date: June 12, 2014, 11:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Bolstering ego on a mutable basis, such as income, is an
       inflation likened to a balloon and apt to burst.
       It's also 'creating' a false reality, a fantasy.
       Everyone has to wake up sometime.
       #Post#: 7796--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Kerry Date: June 12, 2014, 11:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Leaf link=topic=771.msg7794#msg7794
       date=1402632626]
       Bolstering ego on a mutable basis, such as income, is an
       inflation likened to a balloon and apt to burst.
       It's also 'creating' a false reality, a fantasy.
       Everyone has to wake up sometime.
       [/quote]You see this with the super-rich men who like to marry
       younger girls.  I think part of that is they can control them.
       When the girls grow up, they get tired of it; and I can't say I
       feel too sorry for the men when they have to pay out millions in
       the divorce settlements.
       #Post#: 7821--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Runner Date: June 13, 2014, 1:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think that it is much better (for the male ego and happy
       marriage)for him  to be the main bread winner.  We at the moment
       are in the opposite situation...as I still work a couple of days
       a week even at 72, Dave is fully retired now at 76. But, adding
       my work with my pension I receive more than him...it irritates
       him no end. I am glad it wasn't this way all our life.
       It wont happen, but I'd like to go back to the days when the
       mothers were home waiting for the children of every age, to come
       home from school. That in my mind is how it should be.
       #Post#: 7825--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Kerry Date: June 13, 2014, 2:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Helen link=topic=771.msg7821#msg7821
       date=1402683076]
       I think that it is much better (for the male ego and happy
       marriage)for him  to be the main bread winner.  We at the moment
       are in the opposite situation...as I still work a couple of days
       a week even at 72, Dave is fully retired now at 76. But, adding
       my work with my pension I receive more than him...it irritates
       him no end. I am glad it wasn't this way all our life.
       It wont happen, but I'd like to go back to the days when the
       mothers were home waiting for the children of every age, to come
       home from school. That in my mind is how it should be.
       [/quote]I think it's great if one parent stays at home while the
       other one works.  If they can afford it and that's what they
       want.  Children probably benefit from not being tossed to this
       baby sitter and that.
       But why do men feel insecure if their wives make more money than
       they do?   Do they think their wives might leave them if they
       aren't making more money?   Do they feel it's a competition?
       I have a big concern about this.  What happens if the husband
       becomes disabled and can't work?  What happens if he dies and
       the woman has to support a whole family?  If women aren't
       getting paid much,  her whole family will suffer.
       For some reason, I thought Schlafly's father died; but I was
       wrong -- he was unemployed.
       Schlafly was christened Phyllis McAlpin Stewart and brought up
       as a Roman Catholic in St. Louis, Missouri, where she was born.
       During the Depression, Schlafly's father went into long-term
       unemployment, and her mother entered the labor market. Mrs.
       Stewart was able to keep the family afloat and maintained
       Phyllis in a Catholic girls' school.
       I don't know the facts there.  Perhaps he really couldn't find
       work while her mother could.  I don't know -- but would anyone
       say her early life would have been happier if her mother had
       been paid less?  Would her parents' marriage been better by
       reducing women's pay?
       I think one parent should be able to earn enough to support a
       family.  That's hard to do today.  Society also does not look at
       the stay-at-home mom as doing anything of much value.  Being a
       stay-at-home dad is considered even odder by some people.   I
       think we'd have fewer people in prisons if they had had two
       parents with one at home for them.
       When World War came along was when more women started to work;
       and they kept working after the war.  When the men joined the
       labor force, that meant more people were willing to work.  I
       think that meant employers could pay less in wages . .  .to
       everyone.
       When you figure in all the other costs involved, some women make
       less than minimum wage.  First there's the babysitter costs.
       Then there could be another car payment.  More money gets spent
       on prepared foods instead of healthier made-from-scratch
       ingredients.   The additional income may put her and her husband
       in a higher income tax bracket.   Then all too often, the
       working wife has to come home and do most of the work around the
       house as well.
       For me, the problem is how society doesn't value the woman (or
       man) who stays at home to take care of children, to cook and
       keep up the house.    The way wages are, some men would be
       annoyed today if their wives didn't want to work.    I think
       we've gone too far today with society putting the pressure on
       women to make them feel like inadequate failures if they stay at
       home while their husbands work.
       #Post#: 7835--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Leaf Date: June 13, 2014, 8:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]It wont happen, but I'd like to go back to the days when
       the mothers were home waiting for the children of every age, to
       come home from school. That in my mind is how it should
       be.[/quote]
       I agree, Helen. I'd like to think it will happen again. That
       society will become saner.
       I'm not holding my breath though.
       #Post#: 7836--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Leaf Date: June 13, 2014, 8:14 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Kerry,
       I do think that in many ways that it is a competition. While
       growing up, I was quite athletic and out did many a fellow in
       all kinds of sports... most of them became angry over it. Even
       later on when I was dating, I wouldn't let a guy win just to
       save his feelings. I came to find out that most men are
       intimidated by a strong women... strong in any area:
       intellectually, financially, and in prowess. Takes a really
       strong and mature man to not mind having an equal.
       Nowadays it seems that the only strength I have is in the Lord,
       where it belonged all along.
       #Post#: 7905--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Rita Date: June 16, 2014, 3:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have never been in a situation where I was earning more than
       my ex husband, my dad equally earned more than my mum- yet they
       pulled their money - it was not simply ' his ' money verse ' her
       money ' . Yet my father in law was on the opposite side - ' it
       was HIS money ' and he would treat it as such. He ' controlled '
       and came from a family that had little respect for women. Now
       both my mum and mum in law were stay at home mums, my mum in law
       did homework to earn a bit of money, but even that was frowned
       upon my my father in law. My mum worked part time when we were
       at school.
       It was only after my dad had affairs and retired that I noticed
       that financially my mum got very possessive with the finances-
       she very much help the purse strings, more so after my dad was
       desperate for her to take him back. That mutual love and respect
       had gone.
       I was also a stay at home mum, who worked part time around my
       children's schooling. My Ex had the same attitude as his dad
       with money, at times. He would think twice about gambling,
       buying really good clothes for himself, while his children wore
       second hand clothes. At other times he was very generous- it was
       hit and miss, but he always had control.
       Even now, he keeps his own private bank account that he hides
       from his new partner ( he forgot and used an old savings account
       we had- well I have internet banking and can see what he has in
       it - if I sort revenge I could transfer the funds into my bank
       account and he could do nothing about it ! LOL
       With him its more about having the freedom to do what he wants
       with the money without someone else saying ' its not wise '
       He wanted me to work full time so that ' we ' could have a
       higher income -so he would have expected me to pull any earnings
       together with his- while keeping most of his earnings a secret.
       I refused becasue I was not willing to run a home, look after
       the children and work full time - I valued my role, even if he
       didn't.
       I think a lot of men want control, and money has always been a
       good way to have it. If a women earns more then it means they
       have competition for that control !
       Rita
       #Post#: 7909--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Kerry Date: June 16, 2014, 6:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Rita link=topic=771.msg7905#msg7905
       date=1402906133]
       I have never been in a situation where I was earning more than
       my ex husband, my dad equally earned more than my dad- yet they
       pulled their money - it was not simply ' his ' money verse ' her
       money ' . Yet my father in law was on the opposite side - ' it
       was HIS money ' and he would treat it as such. He ' controlled '
       and came from a family that had little respect for women. Now
       both my mum and mum in law were stay at home mums, my mum in law
       did homework to earn a bit of money, but even that was frowned
       upon my my father in law. My mum worked part time when we were
       at school.
       It was only after my dad had affairs and retired that I noticed
       that financially my mum got very possessive with the finances-
       she very much help the purse strings, more so after my dad was
       desperate for her to take him back. That mutual love and respect
       had gone.
       I was also a stay at home mum, who worked part time around my
       children's schooling. My Ex had the same attitude as his dad
       with money, at times. He would think twice about gambling,
       buying really good clothes for himself, while his children wore
       second hand clothes. At other times he was very generous- it was
       hit and miss, but he always had control..[/quote]That's just it.
       It wouldn't be too bad if men controlled the money if they did
       it better.
       A Chinese man told me once that while men were usually the ones
       who worked, the first thing they did when paid was hand over all
       the money to their wives.  That seemed strange to me but he said
       the Chinese thought women were more responsible with money than
       men.  Years later when my sister divorced her first husband over
       money, I began to see his point.    Her first husband went out
       and bought a boat when one of the children needed braces at the
       dentist.   They had been over money issues; but that was the
       straw that broke the camel's back.
       Men seem  more willing to go broke by gambling away a paycheck
       or on drugs or a weekend of drunkenness.  Yes, some women do
       things like too; but it seems to me men are less responsible
       with spending money.
       [quote]Even now, he keeps his own private bank account that he
       hides from his new partner ( he forgot and used an old savings
       account we had- well I have internet banking and can see what he
       has in it - if I sort revenge I could transfer the funds into my
       bank account and he could do nothing about it ! LOL
       With him its more about having the freedom to do what he wants
       with the money without someone else saying ' its not wise '
       [/quote]Oh, he says it's not wise. What an excuse!   What would
       be wise would be to marry a woman you could trust with the
       money.   That's what I'd tell him.
       [quote]He wanted me to work full time so that ' we ' could have
       a higher income -so he would have expected me to pull any
       earnings together with his- while keeping most of his earnings a
       secret. I refused becasue I was not willing to run a home, look
       after the children and work full time - I valued my role, even
       if he didn't. [/quote]Too bad he can't have two or more wives at
       the same time.   He wouldn't have to work at all.
       [quote]I think a lot of men want control, and money has always
       been a good way to have it.[/quote]
       It wouldn't be too bad if they could control how they spend
       money themselves; but it is hypocritical to want control over
       someone else if you can't control yourself.
       [quote]If a women earns more then it means they have competition
       for that control ![/quote]
       If the man is the kind that sees money that way, he will
       definitely feel threatened.  I think maybe we train men wrong --
       to think that self-respect for them means always having that
       bold front of being in control of everything.    Inside they
       remain insecure.   I think maybe that inner insecurity is what
       makes men beat their girlfriends and wives.   If they feel their
       self-esteem is being threatened, they feel they have to lash out
       at whatever is threatening it -- and sometimes if they can't
       lash out at the real threat, they take it out on their wives and
       children.
       I think too at times some men think real love isn't possible,
       that their wives are only with them for the money.  It can
       interesting when a man goes unemployed for one reason or
       another.  Sometimes he finds out his  wife loves him anyway.
       She doesn't pack her bags and leave just because he's sick or
       lost his job.
       #Post#: 7911--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?  
       By: Runner Date: June 16, 2014, 11:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I was made to keep things 'secret'. When I was first married, my
       mother in law handed me a load of betting slips for my hubby!!
       She obviously thought that I knew that he 'did the horses'. ( I
       didn't)  My father in law did them too, so he probably was given
       Dave's slips by the bookie to pass on to Dave.
       I was 20 years old. The way I handled it was to keep telling
       Dave how much the cost of food had gone up..and asked him for
       more housekeeping money. There was no way I was going to see him
       waste everything on gambling and see my children suffer. It
       worked!
       This was all before we became Christians....yet he has never got
       any better about money.
       53 years later I still have savings that he doesn't know about.
       He will be very cross when I drop dead and he finds out there is
       money ( for him) Not that it will last him long..he wont use it
       as a pension , a little each week...he will blow through it
       quickly, and then hope that my two son in laws will help him out
       in his old age.
       Some people can organise and handle money, some obviously just
       can't!!
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