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#Post#: 7793--------------------------------------------------
Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Kerry Date: June 12, 2014, 11:04 pm
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I do not understand Phyllis Schlafly, I must say. When her
father died, her mother had to work to support the family. Yet
Schlafly argues that paying women less for the same work is a
good thing. She says it leads to happier marriages. From
christianpost.com
HTML http://www.christianpost.com/news/facts-and-fallacies-about-paycheck-fairness-117959/:
Another fact is the influence of hypergamy, which means that
women typically choose a mate (husband or boyfriend) who earns
more than she does. Men don't have the same preference for a
higher-earning mate.
While women prefer to HAVE a higher-earning partner, men
generally prefer to BE the higher-earning partner in a
relationship. This simple but profound difference between the
sexes has powerful consequences for the so-called pay gap.
Suppose the pay gap between men and women were magically
eliminated. If that happened, simple arithmetic suggests that
half of women would be unable to find what they regard as a
suitable mate.
Obviously, I'm not saying women won't date or marry a
lower-earning men, only that they probably prefer not to. If a
higher-earning man is not available, many women are more likely
not to marry at all.
I don't understand that. Nor this:
The pay gap between men and women is not all bad because it
helps to promote and sustain marriages. Since husband and wife
generally pool their incomes into a single economic unit, what
really matters is the combined family income, not the pay gap
between them.
In two segments of our population, the pay gap has virtually
ceased to exist. In the African-American community and in the
millennial generation (ages 18 to 32), women earn about the same
as men, if not more.
It just so happens that those are the two segments of our
population in which the rate of marriage has fallen the most.
Fifty years ago, about 80 percent of Americans were married by
age 30; today, less than 50 percent are.
Just a coincidence? I think not. The best way to improve
economic prospects for women is to improve job prospects for the
men in their lives, even if that means increasing the so-called
pay gap.
The real economic story of the past 30 years is that women's pay
has effectively risen to virtual parity, but men's pay has
stagnated and thousands of well-paid blue-collar jobs have been
shipped to low-wage countries. Nobody should be surprised that
the marriage rate has fallen, the age of first marriage has
risen, and marriage, in general, has become unstable.
Somehow I don't think keeping women poor and needing a man to
support them financially is a key to having good marriages. I
just don't.
#Post#: 7794--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Leaf Date: June 12, 2014, 11:10 pm
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Bolstering ego on a mutable basis, such as income, is an
inflation likened to a balloon and apt to burst.
It's also 'creating' a false reality, a fantasy.
Everyone has to wake up sometime.
#Post#: 7796--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Kerry Date: June 12, 2014, 11:31 pm
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[quote author=Leaf link=topic=771.msg7794#msg7794
date=1402632626]
Bolstering ego on a mutable basis, such as income, is an
inflation likened to a balloon and apt to burst.
It's also 'creating' a false reality, a fantasy.
Everyone has to wake up sometime.
[/quote]You see this with the super-rich men who like to marry
younger girls. I think part of that is they can control them.
When the girls grow up, they get tired of it; and I can't say I
feel too sorry for the men when they have to pay out millions in
the divorce settlements.
#Post#: 7821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Runner Date: June 13, 2014, 1:11 pm
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I think that it is much better (for the male ego and happy
marriage)for him to be the main bread winner. We at the moment
are in the opposite situation...as I still work a couple of days
a week even at 72, Dave is fully retired now at 76. But, adding
my work with my pension I receive more than him...it irritates
him no end. I am glad it wasn't this way all our life.
It wont happen, but I'd like to go back to the days when the
mothers were home waiting for the children of every age, to come
home from school. That in my mind is how it should be.
#Post#: 7825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Kerry Date: June 13, 2014, 2:08 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=771.msg7821#msg7821
date=1402683076]
I think that it is much better (for the male ego and happy
marriage)for him to be the main bread winner. We at the moment
are in the opposite situation...as I still work a couple of days
a week even at 72, Dave is fully retired now at 76. But, adding
my work with my pension I receive more than him...it irritates
him no end. I am glad it wasn't this way all our life.
It wont happen, but I'd like to go back to the days when the
mothers were home waiting for the children of every age, to come
home from school. That in my mind is how it should be.
[/quote]I think it's great if one parent stays at home while the
other one works. If they can afford it and that's what they
want. Children probably benefit from not being tossed to this
baby sitter and that.
But why do men feel insecure if their wives make more money than
they do? Do they think their wives might leave them if they
aren't making more money? Do they feel it's a competition?
I have a big concern about this. What happens if the husband
becomes disabled and can't work? What happens if he dies and
the woman has to support a whole family? If women aren't
getting paid much, her whole family will suffer.
For some reason, I thought Schlafly's father died; but I was
wrong -- he was unemployed.
Schlafly was christened Phyllis McAlpin Stewart and brought up
as a Roman Catholic in St. Louis, Missouri, where she was born.
During the Depression, Schlafly's father went into long-term
unemployment, and her mother entered the labor market. Mrs.
Stewart was able to keep the family afloat and maintained
Phyllis in a Catholic girls' school.
I don't know the facts there. Perhaps he really couldn't find
work while her mother could. I don't know -- but would anyone
say her early life would have been happier if her mother had
been paid less? Would her parents' marriage been better by
reducing women's pay?
I think one parent should be able to earn enough to support a
family. That's hard to do today. Society also does not look at
the stay-at-home mom as doing anything of much value. Being a
stay-at-home dad is considered even odder by some people. I
think we'd have fewer people in prisons if they had had two
parents with one at home for them.
When World War came along was when more women started to work;
and they kept working after the war. When the men joined the
labor force, that meant more people were willing to work. I
think that meant employers could pay less in wages . . .to
everyone.
When you figure in all the other costs involved, some women make
less than minimum wage. First there's the babysitter costs.
Then there could be another car payment. More money gets spent
on prepared foods instead of healthier made-from-scratch
ingredients. The additional income may put her and her husband
in a higher income tax bracket. Then all too often, the
working wife has to come home and do most of the work around the
house as well.
For me, the problem is how society doesn't value the woman (or
man) who stays at home to take care of children, to cook and
keep up the house. The way wages are, some men would be
annoyed today if their wives didn't want to work. I think
we've gone too far today with society putting the pressure on
women to make them feel like inadequate failures if they stay at
home while their husbands work.
#Post#: 7835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Leaf Date: June 13, 2014, 8:07 pm
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[quote]It wont happen, but I'd like to go back to the days when
the mothers were home waiting for the children of every age, to
come home from school. That in my mind is how it should
be.[/quote]
I agree, Helen. I'd like to think it will happen again. That
society will become saner.
I'm not holding my breath though.
#Post#: 7836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Leaf Date: June 13, 2014, 8:14 pm
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Kerry,
I do think that in many ways that it is a competition. While
growing up, I was quite athletic and out did many a fellow in
all kinds of sports... most of them became angry over it. Even
later on when I was dating, I wouldn't let a guy win just to
save his feelings. I came to find out that most men are
intimidated by a strong women... strong in any area:
intellectually, financially, and in prowess. Takes a really
strong and mature man to not mind having an equal.
Nowadays it seems that the only strength I have is in the Lord,
where it belonged all along.
#Post#: 7905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Rita Date: June 16, 2014, 3:08 am
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I have never been in a situation where I was earning more than
my ex husband, my dad equally earned more than my mum- yet they
pulled their money - it was not simply ' his ' money verse ' her
money ' . Yet my father in law was on the opposite side - ' it
was HIS money ' and he would treat it as such. He ' controlled '
and came from a family that had little respect for women. Now
both my mum and mum in law were stay at home mums, my mum in law
did homework to earn a bit of money, but even that was frowned
upon my my father in law. My mum worked part time when we were
at school.
It was only after my dad had affairs and retired that I noticed
that financially my mum got very possessive with the finances-
she very much help the purse strings, more so after my dad was
desperate for her to take him back. That mutual love and respect
had gone.
I was also a stay at home mum, who worked part time around my
children's schooling. My Ex had the same attitude as his dad
with money, at times. He would think twice about gambling,
buying really good clothes for himself, while his children wore
second hand clothes. At other times he was very generous- it was
hit and miss, but he always had control.
Even now, he keeps his own private bank account that he hides
from his new partner ( he forgot and used an old savings account
we had- well I have internet banking and can see what he has in
it - if I sort revenge I could transfer the funds into my bank
account and he could do nothing about it ! LOL
With him its more about having the freedom to do what he wants
with the money without someone else saying ' its not wise '
He wanted me to work full time so that ' we ' could have a
higher income -so he would have expected me to pull any earnings
together with his- while keeping most of his earnings a secret.
I refused becasue I was not willing to run a home, look after
the children and work full time - I valued my role, even if he
didn't.
I think a lot of men want control, and money has always been a
good way to have it. If a women earns more then it means they
have competition for that control !
Rita
#Post#: 7909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Kerry Date: June 16, 2014, 6:10 am
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[quote author=Rita link=topic=771.msg7905#msg7905
date=1402906133]
I have never been in a situation where I was earning more than
my ex husband, my dad equally earned more than my dad- yet they
pulled their money - it was not simply ' his ' money verse ' her
money ' . Yet my father in law was on the opposite side - ' it
was HIS money ' and he would treat it as such. He ' controlled '
and came from a family that had little respect for women. Now
both my mum and mum in law were stay at home mums, my mum in law
did homework to earn a bit of money, but even that was frowned
upon my my father in law. My mum worked part time when we were
at school.
It was only after my dad had affairs and retired that I noticed
that financially my mum got very possessive with the finances-
she very much help the purse strings, more so after my dad was
desperate for her to take him back. That mutual love and respect
had gone.
I was also a stay at home mum, who worked part time around my
children's schooling. My Ex had the same attitude as his dad
with money, at times. He would think twice about gambling,
buying really good clothes for himself, while his children wore
second hand clothes. At other times he was very generous- it was
hit and miss, but he always had control..[/quote]That's just it.
It wouldn't be too bad if men controlled the money if they did
it better.
A Chinese man told me once that while men were usually the ones
who worked, the first thing they did when paid was hand over all
the money to their wives. That seemed strange to me but he said
the Chinese thought women were more responsible with money than
men. Years later when my sister divorced her first husband over
money, I began to see his point. Her first husband went out
and bought a boat when one of the children needed braces at the
dentist. They had been over money issues; but that was the
straw that broke the camel's back.
Men seem more willing to go broke by gambling away a paycheck
or on drugs or a weekend of drunkenness. Yes, some women do
things like too; but it seems to me men are less responsible
with spending money.
[quote]Even now, he keeps his own private bank account that he
hides from his new partner ( he forgot and used an old savings
account we had- well I have internet banking and can see what he
has in it - if I sort revenge I could transfer the funds into my
bank account and he could do nothing about it ! LOL
With him its more about having the freedom to do what he wants
with the money without someone else saying ' its not wise '
[/quote]Oh, he says it's not wise. What an excuse! What would
be wise would be to marry a woman you could trust with the
money. That's what I'd tell him.
[quote]He wanted me to work full time so that ' we ' could have
a higher income -so he would have expected me to pull any
earnings together with his- while keeping most of his earnings a
secret. I refused becasue I was not willing to run a home, look
after the children and work full time - I valued my role, even
if he didn't. [/quote]Too bad he can't have two or more wives at
the same time. He wouldn't have to work at all.
[quote]I think a lot of men want control, and money has always
been a good way to have it.[/quote]
It wouldn't be too bad if they could control how they spend
money themselves; but it is hypocritical to want control over
someone else if you can't control yourself.
[quote]If a women earns more then it means they have competition
for that control ![/quote]
If the man is the kind that sees money that way, he will
definitely feel threatened. I think maybe we train men wrong --
to think that self-respect for them means always having that
bold front of being in control of everything. Inside they
remain insecure. I think maybe that inner insecurity is what
makes men beat their girlfriends and wives. If they feel their
self-esteem is being threatened, they feel they have to lash out
at whatever is threatening it -- and sometimes if they can't
lash out at the real threat, they take it out on their wives and
children.
I think too at times some men think real love isn't possible,
that their wives are only with them for the money. It can
interesting when a man goes unemployed for one reason or
another. Sometimes he finds out his wife loves him anyway.
She doesn't pack her bags and leave just because he's sick or
lost his job.
#Post#: 7911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lower Pay for Women is a Good Thing?
By: Runner Date: June 16, 2014, 11:09 am
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I was made to keep things 'secret'. When I was first married, my
mother in law handed me a load of betting slips for my hubby!!
She obviously thought that I knew that he 'did the horses'. ( I
didn't) My father in law did them too, so he probably was given
Dave's slips by the bookie to pass on to Dave.
I was 20 years old. The way I handled it was to keep telling
Dave how much the cost of food had gone up..and asked him for
more housekeeping money. There was no way I was going to see him
waste everything on gambling and see my children suffer. It
worked!
This was all before we became Christians....yet he has never got
any better about money.
53 years later I still have savings that he doesn't know about.
He will be very cross when I drop dead and he finds out there is
money ( for him) Not that it will last him long..he wont use it
as a pension , a little each week...he will blow through it
quickly, and then hope that my two son in laws will help him out
in his old age.
Some people can organise and handle money, some obviously just
can't!!
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