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#Post#: 6566--------------------------------------------------
Mind and Soul
By: Kerry Date: January 3, 2014, 2:53 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=656.msg6524#msg6524
date=1388458851]
[center]
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPTMA7HIIyk[/center][/quote]
Watch this boy's actions. See how he moves back and forth from
foot to foot? See how he rubs the fingers of his hand? Nervous
tics are found in some autism. Any idea what causes them? If
you say it's purely physical, then I ask what causes people with
Tourettes Syndrome to use curse words? Curse words aren't
caused by genetic problems.
Some nervous tics can be quite complicated. From
medicalnewstoday
HTML http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/autism/:
It is not uncommon for people with autism to have tics. These
are usually physical movements that can be jerky. Some tics can
be quite complicated and can go on for a very long time. A
number of people with autism are able to control when they
happen, others are not. People with ASD who do have tics often
say that they have to be expressed, otherwise the urge does not
stop. For many, going through the tics is enjoyable, and they
have a preferred spot where they do them - usually somewhere
private and spacious. When parents first see these tics,
especially the convoluted ones, they may experience shock and
worry.
The fact is that many "healthy" people also have such tics to a
lesser degree. So what's going on?
Why is that some autistic people are highly gifted in other
ways? Some are like human computers. From autism.com
HTML http://www.autism.com/index.php/understanding_savants:
The estimated prevalence of savant abilities in autism is 10%,
whereas the prevalence in the non-autistic population, including
those with mental retardation, is less than 1%.
There are many forms of savant abilities. The most common forms
involve mathematical calculations, memory feats, artistic
abilities, and musical abilities. A mathematical ability which
many autistic individuals display is calendar memory. They could
be asked a question like: 'What day of the week was May 22,
1961? and they can determine the answer within seconds--Monday.
Others can multiply and divide large numbers in their head and
can also calculate square roots and prime numbers without much
hesitation.
Examples of some memory feats include: remembering everything
about presidents (birth/death, term in office, names and birth
dates of family members, cabinet members, etc.), memorizing the
U.S. highway system, and remembering everyone's birth date, even
after meeting the person once and not seeing him/her for 20
years.
I believe the mind is doing things in both cases that is
uncommon in other people. In the case of savants, it's able to
perform complex calculations. In the case of nervous tics,
it's producing movement in the body.
#Post#: 6567--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: George Date: January 3, 2014, 10:35 pm
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I can't even begin to understand why some people with autism
twitch or why people with Tourettes syndrome curse. I agree it
is the mind causing it; but why I have no clue. I have
questioned why some people with Tourettes curse. All I could
think is the same reason anyone curses but they are unable to
control when or why they do it. I curse a lot, sometimes out of
frustration, or anger, from pain, pleasure, joking, arguing,
there are any number of reasons why I curse. Its like a part of
my vocabulary. When I speak to someone who takes offense to it,
I try not to, and for the most part am able to with frame from
doing so with an occasional slip. If it wasn't for people who
take offense, it wouldn't even be in question. To me the real
question is simply why do they blurt out? The twitch is similar
to someone who bites there nails, is it not? Yet we don't
consider someone who bites there nails to have a mental
condition. It may be that they do have something going on with
there brain. I bite my nails to keep them trim, finger nail
clippers turn my stomach, and literally makes me nauseous. But I
don't bite my nails to the point that I'm bleeding and cause my
nails to look abnormal, like I have seen some people do. I
control biting my finger nail to simply keeping them trim, while
others seem to have no control and are constantly biting at
there nails.
#Post#: 6570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Mike Date: January 4, 2014, 12:50 am
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I have encountered those who assert that it's 'Demon possession'
but I don't believe that.
#Post#: 6573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Kerry Date: January 4, 2014, 10:17 am
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=668.msg6570#msg6570
date=1388818256]
I have encountered those who assert that it's 'Demon possession'
but I don't believe that.
[/quote]I hope to get around to discussing the two types of
"demons." I agree this type is not what we would call real
demons. They could be called mental demons; but they aren't
servants of the Devil.
#Post#: 6574--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Kerry Date: January 4, 2014, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=668.msg6567#msg6567
date=1388810145]
I can't even begin to understand why some people with autism
twitch or why people with Tourettes syndrome curse. I agree it
is the mind causing it; but why I have no clue.[/quote]
Think about how children learn to walk or ride bicycles. Or
learn almost anything. You think about it when learning to do
it; but after you know how to do it, it becomes automatic. You
don't think about it. But say you're learning how to play chess
and haven't figured things out altogether. This happened to to
me. When I was a kid and learning how to play chess, I dreamed
about it. If learning how to do something but you stop and go
do something else, you haven't solved that thing yet. So your
mind goes back to it and can dream about it, trying to solve
things when it has spare time.
Take how kids learn to talk. They want to sound like their
parents pretty much. So they learn the sounds their parents
make. This can create problems later if learning another
language that has different sounds. Russian has sounds in it I
never did learn how to make; and my Russian teacher never could
say "thr" right. But we had the same vocal cords, some lips,
some mouths. The same physical equipment taught to make some
sounds and unable to make others. Well, some people can't say
"th" right because of how their teeth are -- so it comes out as
"d" or "t." Most of it is purely mental though.
We know we don't think about doing things after we have the
"circuits" in place to make them happen. It's subconscious. It
can become conscious again though if things go wrong. I have
two cars and the gear shift is in different places. I have to
have two "sets of unconscious" circuits to work with. If I'm on
the wrong set of circuits, I'll reach to the wrong place to
change gears.
Autism is interesting in that some people can control their tics
and others can't. The problem is, of course, not being able to
make things happen the way you want. What is happening there is
that the conscious mind can't get at the circuits and control
them consciously. The circuits are operating on their own and
out of control.
[quote]I have questioned why some people with Tourettes curse.
All I could think is the same reason anyone curses but they are
unable to control when or why they do it. I curse a lot,
sometimes out of frustration, or anger, from pain, pleasure,
joking, arguing, there are any number of reasons why I curse.
Its like a part of my vocabulary. When I speak to someone who
takes offense to it, I try not to, and for the most part am able
to with frame from doing so with an occasional slip. If it
wasn't for people who take offense, it wouldn't even be in
question. To me the real question is simply why do they blurt
out? [/quote]It can't be genetic. We learn how to talk. They
curse with words they learned to say. So they're on automatic
circuits. It would like trying to type and have every so often
some characters like *&% appear because the keyboard had been
told to do that before but you forget you programmed it.
[quote]The twitch is similar to someone who bites there nails,
is it not? Yet we don't consider someone who bites there nails
to have a mental condition. It may be that they do have
something going on with there brain. I bite my nails to keep
them trim, finger nail clippers turn my stomach, and literally
makes me nauseous. But I don't bite my nails to the point that
I'm bleeding and cause my nails to look abnormal, like I have
seen some people do. I control biting my finger nail to simply
keeping them trim, while others seem to have no control and are
constantly biting at there nails.[/quote]
Nail biting might have different causes. It could be a mild form
of autistic behavior -- for the type who enjoys bodily
stimulation -- better than banging your head on a wall to
stimulate yourself. The shrinks (I see from Googling) say
mostly it's "ADHD" -- which is far easier to deal with than
autism. The shrinks really don't know much if you ask me.
I knew this fellow on drugs to control his. There is no way I
would have allowed him to move in with me as long as he was on
drugs for it. His supply got cut off -- and that's when I told
him he could move in. He was so brainwashed when he moved in,
he believed he absolutely couldn't function without the meds.
After a few months, he had improved remarkably. There was more
than one reason for that. First of all, almost anyone would have
been slightly nuts living in the situation he had been in. I
would have wanted some drugs myself, I think. Secondly, he had
been brainwashed and belittled by the doctors who told him how
necessary the drugs were.
If I saw a child who was a very bad nail-biter and who had other
symptoms of what they call ADHD, my first question would be who
or what around him was causing him stress? What is the
advantage of biting your nails? It hurts. That's the
advantage. It takes your mind off the real problems you don't
want to think about.
I used to laugh at that fellow when he said he had ADHD.
"Right," I'd say, "I see how you have no trouble focusing on
your computer games." I noticed the same thing in my nephew
who was also diagnosed with ADHD. He could focus really well if
it was something he wanted to do. I also saw how he interacted
with my sister -- and I'd say she made things worse. In fact,
I'd say she was helping create it by alterating between getting
angry, trying to patient and then winding up doing what he was
supposed to do. I saw her once tell him he couldn't do anything
else until he had finished a lesson for school. That went on for
a while and she wound up doing the lesson for him. I think he
liked that, since it was how he got revenge for her being angry
with him. He wore her down! He won! They sat there until she
finished the lesson.
I'd say most of our mental problems are the result of parts of
our subconscious minds being out of control; and we're told
there is nothing we can do about it. This is definitely not the
case. Take someone who blinks his eyes a lot under stress. If
you can get him into an environment without the stress, he stops
that blinking. You can observe these things. Or if you can't
change the environment, you can get him more in control of
things; and the more in control he is, the better he'll feel and
the tic will show up less.
Stress can come from odd things. I knew a woman who said her
shoulder hurt when the weather turned cold. I asked her if she
had ever injured it in a cold place. She had. She had given it a
huge bump in a walk-in freezer. That formed a circuit in her
mind associating pain in her shoulder with being cold. There
are other even wilder sources of stress.
Speaking of circuits, let me ramble on a bit now. I've been
trying to teach my cats how to wink. I taught Milhaus to do it.
For about a week, I've been working on the three cats I have
now. So far, only Mazel Tov has winked back once before this
morning and then this morning she surprised me by winking first
at me. Mohini didn't wink back, but she gave a strange meow.
There is a difference in the type of awareness between people
and cats, of course; but I'm working at making them aware of
themselves. Animals as a rule don't program their bodies the
way peope do. People are fairly helpless as babies until they
learn how to program their bodies.
#Post#: 6575--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Saul Date: January 4, 2014, 12:15 pm
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[quote]I'd say most of our mental problems are the result of
parts of our subconscious minds being out of control; and we're
told there is nothing we can do about it. This is definitely
not the case. Take someone who blinks his eyes a lot under
stress. If you can get him into an environment without the
stress, he stops that blinking. You can observe these things.
Or if you can't change the environment, you can get him more in
control of things; and the more in control he is, the better
he'll feel and the tic will show up less. [/quote]
Kerry, let me first say, that your views shows your high level
of intelligence. I try to keep things simple, mental ailments
(my opinion), has only 2 causes, natural or spiritual. So
ruling out a chemical imbalance, and a spiritual source. Then I
would (as you stated), state stress, but being more specific
fear. I believe that fear is the root cause of all negative
emotions. Undealt with Fear, short circuits the brain and a
person can then develop all sorts of strange behavior.
The subconscious mind I really haven't made a solid opinion on
the subconsious mind. I kind of look at it as our mind stores a
lot of information, throughout our lifetime. When stress occurs
then events are instantly brought up and fear short circuits the
brain. This can happen so fast that the individual isn't aware
of the "event" that was brought up. Over-simplified, yes. The
answer is just as over-simplified. Perfect Love casts out all
fear. If the person were to have a revelation of God's Love for
them........then poof, healed. But how do you reach someone in
a severe case, I haven't a clue, other than to state that only
The Holy Spirit can reach them.
#Post#: 6608--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Kerry Date: January 6, 2014, 9:30 pm
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[quote author=Saul link=topic=668.msg6575#msg6575
date=1388859320]
Kerry, let me first say, that your views shows your high level
of intelligence. [/quote]
I can't rule out luck -- I have been lucky to have seen certain
things.
[quote]I try to keep things simple, mental ailments (my
opinion), has only 2 causes, natural or spiritual. So ruling
out a chemical imbalance, and a spiritual source. Then I would
(as you stated), state stress, but being more specific fear. I
believe that fear is the root cause of all negative emotions.
Undealt with Fear, short circuits the brain and a person can
then develop all sorts of strange behavior. [/quote]
Fear is often when things pop up that are so obvious we can't
ignore them. You wrote in another thread about how people's
emotions affect an environment. Yes, it does. You can feel
it. People often say they could feel it "in the air." It is
true, they can. It is interacting with their emotional body --
the soul. The more stress you put on someone, the worse shape
he gets in emotionally; and it can make him sick. You can tell
pretty much how much stress someone is under by his emotional
state.
Someone who's angry is still pretty healthy actually. Annoying
maybe, but he's still doing something. Fear makes you want to
run away; and fear is dangerous since it's so irrational. You
know animals in fear can bite you. Even if they like you, the
fear grips them.
Grief is worse than fear, I'd say, if someone is chronically
sad. It's normal to be sad when bad things happen; but some
people hang onto their losses and refuse to see the good things
around them. They keep thinking about all the things they lost
and all the things that went wrong. You will find, I think,
that almost everyone who gets cancer was dealing with grief.
I heard a story about a man who spent his time working hard and
never enjoying life. He kept worrying about things and was
saving his money for his retirement. He got cancer and was
told he had only a short while to live. So he quit his job,
sold his house, cashed in all his savings and decided to enjoy
life a little before he died. His cancer went into remission.
He wound up broke but the cancer didn't kill him.
[quote]The subconscious mind I really haven't made a solid
opinion on the subconsious mind. I kind of look at it as our
mind stores a lot of information, throughout our lifetime. When
stress occurs then events are instantly brought up and fear
short circuits the brain.[/quote]
Have you ever been around an alcoholic who drinks so much at
times he doesn't remember what he did when drunk? When he's
sober, he can't remember the black outed periods. But you can
test this -- the next time he gets rip roaring drunk, he can
remember those black outed periods if you start talking about
them. The memories are there -- he can't access them.
[quote]This can happen so fast that the individual isn't aware
of the "event" that was brought up. Over-simplified, yes. The
answer is just as over-simplified. Perfect Love casts out all
fear. If the person were to have a revelation of God's Love for
them........then poof, healed. But how do you reach someone in
a severe case, I haven't a clue, other than to state that only
The Holy Spirit can reach them.[/quote]
Some people are so severely out of touch, it's next to hopeless.
Some memories get blocked out of feelings of shame or guilt.
People don't want to admit they did some things. If you can
get them to realize they are genuinely sorry and won't do them
again, they feel relieved of that stress.
There is guilt in a lot of it. I met two guys when they were
rather young. They had alcoholic fathers. Both said with anger
in their voices, "I'll never be like him. I hate him." How
did that turn out? They both became drunks. They became
exactly like their fathers. What are the facts? They didn't
really hate their fathers. No, they were angry because they
loved them and felt unloved. They were hurting inside because
someone they loved didn't show much love back. I talked to one
at the time, trying to get him to see that he really loved his
father; but he said no. They both lied about loving their
fathers -- lied to themselves and then to me and other people.
They defiled the God-nature in themselves. We are like God --
in His image and likeness -- and they said, "No, I don't want to
love."
They would not forgive. It brought them down. Then when they
did the same things they wouldn't forgive, how could they
forgive themselves?
To me the "God-out-there" as Love is connected somehow with the
"God-in-us." If we misunderstand one, we misunderstand the
other. If you understand and accept that God loves you, then
you may feel safe enough to start loving others yourself; and if
you realize your real goal in life is to love others and perhaps
have them love you back, you can accept God-out-there as Love
more easily.
#Post#: 6611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Saul Date: January 7, 2014, 7:41 am
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[quote]Have you ever been around an alcoholic who drinks so much
at times he doesn't remember what he did when drunk? [/quote]
I was a "alcoholic" until around 2006. You are correct some
things would come back to me in pieces when someone else would
start talking about it.
[quote]To me the "God-out-there" as Love is connected somehow
with the "God-in-us." If we misunderstand one, we
misunderstand the other. If you understand and accept that God
loves you, then you may feel safe enough to start loving others
yourself; and if you realize your real goal in life is to love
others and perhaps have them love you back, you can accept
God-out-there as Love more easily. [/quote]
It is more than understanding that God Loves us. It has to go
deeper than that, understanding is head knowledge, in most
people that isn't enough. The more personal it gets, the more
drastic the change. When I was healed everything about me
changed in an instant. I had, had a personal deep revelation of
God's Love for me. And everyone around me recognized the
change. My personality remains the same, but the way I think,
changed dramatically.and now I have a love for others. Prior to
that, my mentality was all aggressive and all selfish. Even in
the wheelchair, I remember a confrontation with my wife's
nieces' husband, here I am in a wheelchair paralyzed, yet I
wasn't backing down. When we have a deep experience with God's
Love for us, then His Love can flow out of us.
#Post#: 6617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Kerry Date: January 7, 2014, 10:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Saul link=topic=668.msg6611#msg6611
date=1389102099]
I was a "alcoholic" until around 2006. You are correct some
things would come back to me in pieces when someone else would
start talking about it. [/quote]If you had gotten raging drunk,
it would all have come back, but you'd have to be drunk to
remember it all. I lived with a woman and her boyfriend, and
she sometimes did things she remembered nothing about. Total
black out. There was no point in talking about it the next
morning. Other times, when she wasn't quite as drunk, she
could recall some things; but some things were completely
blacked out. . . unless she got rip roaring drunk again.
She had different personalities she went into. You could see
them. If she shifted back into the nasty personality, she could
remember everything that personality had done before. That
false personality also knew what she did sober -- the
unconscious knows what the conscious knows -- but the conscious
finds it hard to access the unconscious and can't sometimes.
I stood between her and her boyfriend one night when she had a
knife and said she was going to kill him. She was in that fake
false nasty personality that wasn't really her. I didn't talk
to it. I talked to the real person, summoning "her" back. I
told her I wasn't going to let her stab him. I was sure she
loved him and didn't want to stab him. The nasty personality
got a little weaker but said it wanted to kill him. I told
"her" the real person I didn't believe it and she'd have to stab
me first. The fake personality said it would stab me. I said,
"Here I am. You can stab me if you want and I won't try to stop
you. If that's what you really want to do, go ahead; but I
won't let you get past me to stab me. " She came to her senses
and said, "You know I don't want to do that." She put down the
knife. Her boyfriend was stunned.
I have faith in the real person -- the fake personalities are
not the real person.
[quote]It is more than understanding that God Loves us. It has
to go deeper than that, understanding is head knowledge, in
most people that isn't enough. The more personal it gets, the
more drastic the change. [/quote]
Right. Love is not an intellectual thing. The more childlike
it is, the better. Children don't reason themselves into
loving. It is just the way they are.
This will sound strange. I didn't care about that woman's
boyfriend that much. I didn't even like him. So why try to
save his life? I loved that woman -- not sexually but in a
pure way. I didn't want her to ruin her life by committing
such a terrible crime and going to jail. I also knew she really
wasn't like that. It was the booze talking. It was extremely
personal for me. Using logic wouldn't have worked in that
situation.
[quote]When I was healed everything about me changed in an
instant. I had, had a personal deep revelation of God's Love
for me. And everyone around me recognized the change. My
personality remains the same, but the way I think, changed
dramatically.and now I have a love for others. Prior to that,
my mentality was all aggressive and all selfish. Even in the
wheelchair, I remember a confrontation with my wife's nieces'
husband, here I am in a wheelchair paralyzed, yet I wasn't
backing down. When we have a deep experience with God's Love for
us, then His Love can flow out of us.[/quote]Part of it is
accepting love. Can we accept it? If we can't accept the
fact that God loves us, we can use reason and logical all day
and all night and get nowhere.
The world tends to beat us down, telling us that love is
impossible. People betray us and we get suspicious. We think
love is all a pretense from people to get us to do things for
them. And often it is that way. Men tell women, "I love you,
baby" to get into her pants, and the women believe it. When
they get pregnant, the men are nowhere to be found. The world
is full of such treachery and betrayal. Is love possible?
To me, the Gospel message is that Love is possible. If you
know you wish real love is possible, surely you should be able
to believe other people wish for the same thing; and it
shouldn't be too hard to believe God also is loving. The
question then is if we are willing to risk betrayal by loving?
I am. If I care about someone and he or she betrays me, there
is nothing I can do about that. That's their decision. I
can't control them. I can control myself and be true to my
nature -- which tells me to love. I'd rather be dead than to
live a life telling myself it's not safe to love others. It's
too miserable living that way. It's easier to love and leave it
up to other people what they do -- they can love me back or they
can not love me. That's their choice. I hope they love me back
-- it would make them happier if they can feel it's safe to love
me or someone.
[/quote]
#Post#: 6618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mind and Soul
By: Saul Date: January 8, 2014, 12:04 am
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[quote]To me, the Gospel message is that Love is possible.
[/quote]
I agree, Jesus even stated that the First two commandments were
the greatest, and in those two all the commandments are
fulfilled. The New Covenant even more so.
[quote]Part of it is accepting love. Can we accept it? If we
can't accept the fact that God loves us, we can use reason and
logical all day and all night and get nowhere. [/quote]
Yes acceptance is crucial, and if we can't accept it we can't
give it. Also, we tend to deal with others as we perceive God to
be. If someone looks at God as being all critical and waiting
to judge us the minute we sin, then they tend to be very
critical of others.
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