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#Post#: 6336--------------------------------------------------
Geocentrism
By: James Date: November 21, 2013, 8:59 am
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Kerry do you know anything about the title ?
Why might it be important to Christians?
I do not understand it.
#Post#: 6337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: Kerry Date: November 21, 2013, 3:47 pm
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I think there are still people around who say the Catholic
Church was right when they said the earth is the center of the
universe and that sun goes around the earth. They based this
view on the passage that says the sun stood still for Joshua.
So they argued that the Bible says the sun moves and not the
earth. Thus the Copernican theory was condemned. Galileo was
put on trial and told to be quiet.
By the way, they found the body of Copernicus and gave him
another burial in 2010
HTML http://phys.org/news193758443.html.
This time they buried him
with honor in the cathedral at Frombork. He was a canon of the
church and helped administer church property; but his theory
about the earth revolving around the sun and rotating on its
axis is probably why he had been buried in an unmarked grave.
His book was banned.
Galileo had his own problems although he was a personal friend
of the Pope. The Catholic Church has tried to make the best of
this also; but the last I heard, they still had documents hidden
away, so the whole truth isn't known.
Some Catholics still say the Catholic Church didn't really err
when saying the sun moves around the earth because it wasn't
pronounced as a dogma by an ecumenical council or a Pope
speaking ex cathedra. What is clear is that the Catholic Church
did once think the book of Joshua taught the theory of
geocentricism.
It really has to do with how we interpret the Bible. I say a
lot of things in the Bible are described in human terms -- the
way things look to us. It does look like the sun rises and
sets. So what if the Bible uses those words then? We still say
the same thing talking about sunrise and sunset. Are we being
unscientific? But some people insist it has to be literal and
still think the sun must go around the earth because the Bible
says so.
#Post#: 6340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: James Date: November 22, 2013, 5:15 am
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Thanks Kerry, I knew it had something to do with the Catholic
church.
Is there any special reason why they would still say this is
true, as I know one can find stuff about it on the net.
Not being able to know the validity of the argument for either
side I have no way to know (a) is the Catholic view true, and
(B) what difference does it make in the day to day walk of a
believer as to sun round earth or earth round sun.
#Post#: 6341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: Kerry Date: November 22, 2013, 6:05 am
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[quote author=James link=topic=640.msg6340#msg6340
date=1385118936]
Thanks Kerry, I knew it had something to do with the Catholic
church.
Is there any special reason why they would still say this is
true, as I know one can find stuff about it on the net.
[/quote]The Catholic Church itself no longer says it's true;
but I've run across one or two people who claimed to be
Catholics who still believed the people who put Galileo in
prison in his own house were right. He was convicted of heresy
too; and some people still think he was! Pope John Paul II
finally made it official by admitting Galileo was right. From
HTML http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13618460.600-vatican-admits-galileo-was-right-.html:
Last week, 359 years later, the Church finally agreed. At a
ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences,
Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right.
The formal rehabilitation was based on the findings of a
committee of the Academy the Pope set up in 1979, soon after
taking office. The committee decided the Inquisition had acted
in good faith, but was wrong.
[quote]Not being able to know the validity of the argument for
either side I have no way to know (a) is the Catholic view true,
and (B) what difference does it make in the day to day walk of a
believer as to sun round earth or earth round sun.[/quote]
Galileo's assertion was based on the hard scientific evidence of
Copernicus. If you want to believe the geocentric system, you
have to believe that the other planets move in very strange
orbits. Not only do they go around the sun, they go in circles
too -- rather like the way our moon goes in a circle around the
earth but is also going around the sun. The problem with that
is the planets would be going around a spot in space with
nothing there to go around. Very complicated. Here is how
Mercury and Venus would move if the theory of geocentricism is
true.
HTML http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/greek_astro_files/image001.gif
The Copernican theory was simpler and didn't have the planets
revolving in tinier circles around nothing while also going in
circles around the earth.
Is it important? I think it was important back then because it
involved someone daring to question the Pope and what the
Catholic Church taught. It was a threat to their power and
authority.
#Post#: 6348--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: coldwar Date: November 23, 2013, 9:05 am
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I once heard a Baptist Fundamentalist insist that the sun and
moon revolve around the earth, based on "Joshua's long day"
(Google that phrase - you'll get all kinds of info). This man
insisted that all modern science, especially from NASA, is
conspiratorial, and favoured Tycho Brahe's astronomy. Knowing
this preacher had to be wrong, an idea came to me.
When Joshua prayed to God for his required extended daylight,
perhaps God answered his prayer by causing the earth to either
1)tilt on it's axis, or 2) wobble in a certain way. This would
have caused the position of the sun and moon, relative to the
earth, to change- to move slightly backward if you will.
This same thinking could be applied to the time(s) when the
Bible refers to the moon turning to blood. Most people think
"lunar eclipse" as the event, but because eclipses are never
visible world-wide at any given time, it could either mean - 1)
it refers to an eclipse seen from the Middle East only, or 2) if
the blood moon must be seen world-wide, then the earth were to
once again tilt on it's axis, but this time more violently, this
could cause a "red shift" of the moon's light. Think of the
Doppler Effect, and apply it to the frequencies of visible light
that affect light temperature.
A large tilt of the earth's axis would also make "the stars fall
from the sky to the earth" in the sense that the constellations
of stars would suddenly disappear over the horizon, giving the
impression of the star falling to the earth.
The one accompanying sign I can't reconcile with my thinking,
however, is "the sun turning dark as sack--cloth".
#Post#: 6354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: Runner Date: November 23, 2013, 10:59 am
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[quote]Quote James...
Not being able to know the validity of the argument for either
side I have no way to know (a) is the Catholic view true, and
(B) what difference does it make in the day to day walk of a
believer as to sun round earth or earth round sun.[/quote]
I think that in "type and shadow" it is important. The sun being
a type of The Son Himself.
[quote]Coldwar....A large tilt of the earth's axis would also
make "the stars fall from the sky to the earth" in the sense
that the constellations of stars would suddenly disappear over
the horizon, giving the impression of the star falling to the
earth.
The one accompanying sign I can't reconcile with my thinking,
however, is "the sun turning dark as sack--cloth".[/quote]
Now that is a excellent thought! And makes good sense....I can
see it.
What was it that happened other than an earthquake, at the death
of Jesus...the sun and everything turned dark then didn't it?
#Post#: 6356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: Kerry Date: November 23, 2013, 11:38 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=640.msg6348#msg6348
date=1385219125]
The one accompanying sign I can't reconcile with my thinking,
however, is "the sun turning dark as sack--cloth".
[/quote]My own thought on that is that one type of "sun" or
source of light goes out first, and then a new type of sun
rises. Malachi says the "sun of righteousness" rises with
healing in its wings. People who read that in English often
read it as "son of righteousness."
#Post#: 6357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: Kerry Date: November 23, 2013, 11:44 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=640.msg6354#msg6354
date=1385225970]
What was it that happened other than an earthquake, at the death
of Jesus...the sun and everything turned dark then didn't it?
[/quote]Was that part of the fulfillment of the prophecy of
Joel? Peter said another part was being fulfilled at Pentecost.
I believe the sun that went dark at the Cross is also shown by
Jesus' words about the Father forsaking him. Jesus had been
receiving Light up to then from the Father. Then he was cut
off. But three days later he "rose" himself as a "sun" -- and
then appeared on the first day of the week as a "sign."
#Post#: 8040--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: twinc Date: June 25, 2014, 6:01 pm
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it is not just a Catholic thing it is a Christian thing, it is a
Biblical thing, it is a God thing - to say or even think that
Galileo was right and that God, Scriptures the Church could
possibly be wrong is unacceptable - in this wise see
www.galileowaswrong.com - twinc
#Post#: 8041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Geocentrism
By: Runner Date: June 25, 2014, 6:24 pm
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Hey twinc...nice to see you landed safely. ;)
Quote James:-what difference does it make in the day to day walk
of a believer as to sun round earth or earth round sun.
Well I think it make a lot of difference to "the believer"..more
to the believe than the non- believer...as we see and know the
value of the biblical types. The earth , these our little human
'earths' must revolve around Him...not like some who think that
God is there to serve them, meet their needs and make their life
rosy...and if He doesn't do just that, then He has failed them!!
It is a mind set with some...and all things revolve around them!
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