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#Post#: 6216--------------------------------------------------
One Spirit
By: James Date: October 22, 2013, 1:53 pm
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Was Jesus really saying that John Baptist was Elijah or was he
talking in the Spirit meaning that as Elijah preached by the
power of the spirit of God, so in the self same way John had the
exact same ministry.
It seems odd to say that what "it " was depended on how one was
able to receive or understand the truth he was putting across.
[color=black]14And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which
was for to come. 15He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[/color]
#Post#: 6217--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: Kerry Date: October 22, 2013, 5:10 pm
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People probably know what I believe. I think John was Elijah.
To me, it's simple: Is means is. Can people receive it? I'd
say some can't.
I also think Jesus was Elisha. John couldn't remember being
Elijah and denied it; but Jesus was right about it, John was
Elijah.
#Post#: 6222--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: James Date: October 23, 2013, 3:27 pm
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I have never heard anyone say before that Jesus was Elisha, I
have always thought that Melchizedek was Jesus, he was the
priest of the most high God.
Why Elisha?
James
#Post#: 6225--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: Kerry Date: October 23, 2013, 8:09 pm
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I think Melchizedek was another name for Shem. If you study
the number of years Shem lived, you can see he would still have
been alive to meet Abraham.
Elisha received the mantle of Elisha and sevenfold. I also
think Jesus was Joseph, the savior of his people and of the
Egyptians. Joshua who took over for Moses and led Israel into
the land of Promise. And David too.
I see Samuel as Joseph, again acting as protector to
David/Jesus. I believe Hannah in the Temple who was happy to
see the baby Jesus was the Anna who had been Samuel's mother.
In the Old Testament, her prayer for a holy child was answered
with Samuel being born. In the New, she met "Samuel" again when
Joseph and Mary showed up; and I think her prayer to see Messiah
was answered.
I also see Jesus as being Abel -- suffering from the beginning.
I don't see Jesus as standing afar off and doing nothing for
centuries. I see him as willing to suffer from the beginning.
When I read the story about Cain and Abel, I read it to mean
that Abel offered his own lamblike nature as a sacrifice -- not
necessarily a physical animal. Cain would not offer his animal
nature; and he became like "the beast."
There is a pattern of one person showing up first and then the
second appearing; and in most cases, I see Jesus as coming after
the way has been prepared. People's hearts and minds have to
be made ready to receive.
Oh yes, and I think Jesus was also Isaac, offered as a
sacrifice.
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world
hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
I read that literally. I read this literally too; and I think
Jesus may have been discussing more than prophecies here,
perhaps he was telling them about his past actions:
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he
expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning
himself.
#Post#: 6229--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: James Date: October 25, 2013, 3:35 am
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That was most enlightening Kerry.
I shall look at that again.
It would be possible to see all of what you have said in a
spiritual context as each one being a type of Jesus, then on the
other had if God is a spirit and they were in the Spirit of
Jesus then they were Jesus.
David is a bit of a hard one to see as Jesus since although he
was the deliverer of the children of Israel he was at one time
motivated by lust and sinned.
If he was Jesus then that makes Samuel John the Baptist.
James
#Post#: 6231--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: Kerry Date: October 25, 2013, 5:34 am
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[quote author=James link=topic=628.msg6229#msg6229
date=1382690158]
That was most enlightening Kerry.
I shall look at that again.
It would be possible to see all of what you have said in a
spiritual context as each one being a type of Jesus, then on the
other had if God is a spirit and they were in the Spirit of
Jesus then they were Jesus.
David is a bit of a hard one to see as Jesus since although he
was the deliverer of the children of Israel he was at one time
motivated by lust and sinned.
If he was Jesus then that makes Samuel John the Baptist.
James[/quote]The roles aren't always exact. But I will defend
David. I deny he was motivated by lust. The Bible never says
he committed adultery or murder. That is a popular myth.
David's only sin was against God.
Psalm 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done
this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when
thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
It is said that David sinned out of pride, asking God to test
him. He thought his heart was pure and asked to be tested.
(That puts a different spin on that Psalm where David asks God
to test him.) Instead of waiting for God to decide when he was
ready to be tested, he thought his heart was pure and he could
pass the test.
God permitted him to be tested. He was meditating one night
wondering which son would succeed him on the throne and who the
mother would be; and Satan showed him Bathsheba in a vision.
We should surely not think Bathsheba was so immodest as to bath
on her rooftop where men could see her. (Perish the thought to
think such a wicked thing of her.)
So Satan sent the vision; and while it was a true vision because
Bathsheba had been ordained from the beginning of the world to
be the David's wife and mother of Solomon, David decided to ask
about her. Note in the Bible, it says he waited until her days
of impurity were over -- so we shouldn't think they fell into
bed together straight away.
What the Bible does not say is the Sanhedrin had ruled that when
men went to war, they were ordered to divorce their wives.
That's so if they died in battle but couldn't be determined to
be dead, the wives would be free to marry. If a woman didn't
know where her husband was or if he was alive, she couldn't
remarry; and that made her life hard. So the procedure was to
divorce then when going off to war, just in case, and then to
remarry them if you made it back alive. Thus Bathsheba and
Uriah were not married. They did not commit adultery.
When Uriah came to see David, he swore a blasphemous oath,
swearing on the life of David. Since David was anointed by God,
this was blasphemy; and Uriah should have been turned over to a
court to be put on trial. He would have been convicted and
executed. David's sin was showing no regard for the laws of
God; and he took the affair into his own hands. He wanted to
avoid the embarrassment of a public trial; and since Uriah was
guilty and should have been put to death, David tried to cheat
the system by ordering Uriah to the battlefront. But it was
not murder.
Ezekiel says some strange things about David. You can read
"David" to mean "son of David" and probably most people do. I
read it literally David meaning David.
Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he
shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and
he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a
prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.
Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and
they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my
judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto
Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they
shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their
children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be
their prince for ever.
I believe Samuel was later Joseph. I also believe
Samuel/Joseph lived in Britain three times as Merlin. Yes, I
believe in King Arthur. The other two times were Thomas More
and Thomas a Becket. In both lifetimes, a King Henry had him
put to death. Yes, I think Henry II was also Henry VIII. As
Henry VIII, he repeated the same mistake he had made as Henry
II; and the kingdom passed from him and his offspring -- and he
lost his position in the Kingdom of God.
#Post#: 6234--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: James Date: October 25, 2013, 1:33 pm
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Why King Arthur, I had always thought of him as a myth, then
they brought out the film that portrayed him as Roman General
left here when the Romans returned to their native land.
I do not know if such is true but it does make a nice story.
Reference the Sanhedrin, what dusty old book does one read to
find out this stuff. I once read in a post how they had decreed
there had to be a wall of 36 inches around the top of a house
and I thought then how does anyone know this from whence comes
such understanding.
James
#Post#: 6235--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: Kerry Date: October 25, 2013, 7:47 pm
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You can find a lot in the section called "Sanhedrin."
HTML http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/index.html
Other
tractates are there too --
HTML http://www.come-and-hear.com/talmud/
It's hard to say though where to look for answers about a
particular verse since the rabbis often talked about lots of
things that seem unconnected. Plus there are all sorts of
opinions. They disagree with each other at times.
You can also type in a search word and hope you find a text that
deals with it.
HTML http://www.come-and-hear.com/talmud/
I did read once how tall the wall should be; but I don't
remember where or how tall.
I rely a lot on Rashi's commentary at chabad.org. Rashi was a
famous rabbi, a descendant of David too. Sometimes he gives
references to other books which I can look up.
HTML http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9986#showrashi=true
In this case, he doesn't say how high the wall should be but he
says something else. The person who would fall from your roof
without the wall would be a sinner who deserved to die; but he
says you should not be the instrument of his death. God uses
the unrighteous to punish sinners, so you should avoid trying to
have his blood shed in your house.
How can we know? That's a hard question. Things can be so
complicated, we often have to trust someone else; and I think
that's why Jesus told the Jews to do whatever the Sanhedrin
said, however they interpreted things. If they say it's 36
inches, so be it. If they say 40 inches, then do that. We can
see that 12 inches wouldn't be right. A child could fall off
easily. Adults might too. Even 24 inches is dangerous if
someone lost his balance or if people were playing and one got
shoved. Too high would be wrong too, it seems to me. But I
could live with 36 inches and see why someone would say that was
the height.
#Post#: 6239--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: Kerry Date: October 26, 2013, 7:49 am
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I apologize. I got something wrong. The text I found said
Bathsheba was bathing, so she was over her monthly impurity.
But I still think I read somewhere they waited.
I found the reference I had read before. It's Sanhedrin 107a.
HTML http://juchre.org/talmud/sanhedrin/sanhedrin6.htm#107a
By the way, I don't take everything they say to heart. As I
say, the rabbis say different things; and the reader is expected
to make up his own mind. But some rabbis are better than
others. . . . I still do not believe David was motivated by
lust although one rabbi says that.
#Post#: 6250--------------------------------------------------
Re: One Spirit
By: James Date: October 28, 2013, 4:12 pm
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I looked up the reference you gave me, it threw fresh light.
I also found it interesting that the Rabbi says that God told
David he would try him in the sin of adultery, would this
indicate that Uriah had not in this case written out a bill of
divorce for his wife?
Just a thought.
James
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