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#Post#: 5849--------------------------------------------------
The flesh and the spirit?
By: Mike Date: August 9, 2013, 1:01 am
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It’s now early morning and I‘ve been awake most of the night
thinking about the ‘flesh’ and the ‘spirit’.
Is not everything that we can experience with one or more of our
five natural senses ‘of the flesh’?
Whereas everything that cannot be thus experienced is ‘of the
spirit’.
And is it not true that, like oil and water, the two cannot be
mixed no matter how small the particles into which you might
break them?
Thus when we die whatever was ‘of the flesh’, whether good or
bad, “perishes back to dust”.
So what about all that was ‘of the spirit’ whether good or bad?
If, in the resurrection, that which was ‘of the spirit’ is
clothed in a new vessel (if vessel be an appropriate
description) then do ‘we’ not await the Judgement seat of Christ
to purify away the ‘bad’ (“saved yet so as through fire”)?
(I say ‘we’ assuming that ‘we’ retain an identity in our new
format.)
So let’s consider that which, because it cannot be experienced
by any of our five natural senses, is ‘of the spirit’.
Things like thoughts and emotions fall into such a category
(whilst many of their ‘expressions’ may be experienced ‘in the
flesh’ as a result of written or spoken words or reactions, many
will not be).
Some prayers will be audible to the flesh, many will not.
Similarly for the various forms of worship.
We are told that God is a spirit, and those that worship Him
must do so in spirit and in truth.
We are told that, once we have the spirit, than the two war
within us.
Also, in the resurrection, assuming that we retain identities,
do we know to what degree?
Millions upon millions of we’s all packed into one New
Jerusalem?
Difficult to imagine if the ‘vessels’ in which we are
resurrected take up ‘space’ like we do in our present form.
Maybe the new ‘we’ will be no more than tiny omnipresent atoms.
Anyone got any thoughts to add to my ramblings?
#Post#: 5852--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Runner Date: August 9, 2013, 9:49 am
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I know how these things can run round and round the mind at
night.
The thing is...we are not only a two part being of flesh and
spirit....there is also the soul!
I find it is easier to separate the flesh and spiritual part of
us but hard to separate the soul and spirit.
"thoughts and emotions" are of soul.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
"The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your
whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Another sleepless night?
I personally don't feel that they can be totally separated. I
believe they each overlap.
The mind I believe is between the body and soul and is the link
that joins them.
I believe the heart is found between the soul and the spirit,
and is the link that joins them. Like Kerry's avatar, the goal
is to have the Spirit dominant then soul and body will fall into
their place. Adam was 'right side up' before the fall....then
he got tipped upside down with body dominant and took us with
him. Since then we have been led by " I feel." The older I
get the more aware I am of the strength of the body to try and
dominate.
#Post#: 5853--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Mike Date: August 9, 2013, 10:42 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=590.msg5852#msg5852
date=1376059771]
I know how these things can run round and round the mind at
night.
The thing is...we are not only a two part being of flesh and
spirit....there is also the soul!
I find it is easier to separate the flesh and spiritual part of
us but hard to separate the soul and spirit.
"thoughts and emotions" are of soul.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
"The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your
whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Another sleepless night?
I personally don't feel that they can be totally separated. I
believe they each overlap.
The mind I believe is between the body and soul and is the link
that joins them.
I believe the heart is found between the soul and the spirit,
and is the link that joins them. Like Kerry's avatar, the goal
is to have the Spirit dominant then soul and body will fall into
their place. Adam was 'right side up' before the fall....then
he got tipped upside down with body dominant and took us with
him. Since then we have been led by " I feel." The older I
get the more aware I am of the strength of the body to try and
dominate.
[/quote]
I only concern myself with flesh and spirit.
To me soul and spirit are the same and maybe so too is mind and
one aspect of heart.
As distinct from the aspect of heart which is clearly 'flesh'.
#Post#: 5856--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Kerry Date: August 10, 2013, 12:40 pm
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=590.msg5853#msg5853
date=1376062948]
I only concern myself with flesh and spirit.
To me soul and spirit are the same and maybe so too is mind and
one aspect of heart.
As distinct from the aspect of heart which is clearly 'flesh'.
[/quote]How can soul and spirit be separated then?
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is
a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
#Post#: 5857--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Mike Date: August 10, 2013, 12:53 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=590.msg5856#msg5856
date=1376156442]
[quote author=Mike link=topic=590.msg5853#msg5853
date=1376062948]
I only concern myself with flesh and spirit.
To me soul and spirit are the same and maybe so too is mind and
one aspect of heart.
As distinct from the aspect of heart which is clearly 'flesh'.
[/quote]How can soul and spirit be separated then?
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is
a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
[/quote]
When something happens that is a total surprise one might say
that it came like a 'bolt out of the blue' but one would take
the event at face value whilst not in any way taking 'bolt out
of the blue' as indicating anything more than extreme surprise.
Similarly the relevance of Hebrews 4:12 might simply be towards
the extreme penetrative capability of the 'word of God'.
#Post#: 5858--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Kerry Date: August 10, 2013, 1:16 pm
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Could you believe I stood once outside my body and saw my soul
pressed out of it?
It happened in the middle of the night. I woke up and Jesus
was there and so was Mary and Joseph. I was a little confused
since I wasn't expecting anything and wondering if I was
supposed to do something; but I figured I was in good hands and
just let it happen. It was squeezed out by some force, and I --
as spirit -- watched it happen.
It appears to me now that many of our problems are created by
one part of us trying to do the job of another part. For
example, people are often prone to let their emotions "think"
for them. Other people are cold and stifle the emotions of
their souls by calculating things with their minds. Things can
get all tangled up.
Perhaps the worst fate is when the inclinations of the heart
want to stifle the truth and won't permit the mind to work
right. There is a type of atheist whose heart is set on their
being no God. He doesn't one to exist so he can do evil and get
away with it. I doubt you could ever convince him of anything
unless he was willing to examine his conscience in his heart --
and his mind be so confused, running all over him, it may not be
possible.
Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none
that doeth good.
There are other kinds of atheists and some of them have good
hearts. They have heard such wicked things about God they can't
believe. In their heart, perhaps they wish there was a God; but
their minds calculate there isn't. Then you have that odd bird
who is angry with God (emotions of the soul) and who even more
oddly denies God exists. His mind is burnt -- how could he be
angry at someone or something that doesn't exist?
For me, the contradictions in these parts of men are what make
us double-minded. The solution is for spirit to discipline
them and get them to do their proper jobs.
#Post#: 5860--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Mike Date: August 10, 2013, 1:41 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=590.msg5858#msg5858
date=1376158607]
Could you believe I stood once outside my body and saw my soul
pressed out of it?
[/quote]
On the basis that, in a month of Sundays (as they say), I
couldn't imagine anything remotely like that happening with me
the answer has to be 'no'.
All that's missing now is for someone like George to say he
could believe that plus the rest of the post. ;)
#Post#: 5861--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Kerry Date: August 10, 2013, 1:54 pm
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I couldn't have imagined something like happening myself, Mike.
I was caught off guard entirely. If Jesus hadn't been there to
keep me calm, I might have thought I was losing my mind. But
it did happen (unless I am nuts), and when I read that passage
from Hebrews, I think it's describing what happened to me.
#Post#: 5863--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: George Date: August 11, 2013, 10:23 am
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=590.msg5860#msg5860
date=1376160093]
On the basis that, in a month of Sundays (as they say), I
couldn't imagine anything remotely like that happening with me
the answer has to be 'no'.
[/quote]
It would appear to be that from the tone of this statement, you
are completely closed minded to allowing such an experience
happen to you. Makes me wonder if possibly this is why you have
never experienced anything remotely like this happening.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version (KJV)
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[quote author=Mike link=topic=590.msg5860#msg5860
date=1376160093]
All that's missing now is for someone like George to say he
could believe
[/quote]
Whilst I can admit to have never experienced anything of this
nature, myself, I don't believe Kerry to be a liar, and for that
reason I will remain to be open minded. I think the key words to
the above statement is that whether or not I do believe, I could
believe.
#Post#: 5864--------------------------------------------------
Re: The flesh and the spirit?
By: Mike Date: August 11, 2013, 11:05 am
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=590.msg5863#msg5863
date=1376234605]
[quote author=Mike link=topic=590.msg5860#msg5860
date=1376160093]
On the basis that, in a month of Sundays (as they say), I
couldn't imagine anything remotely like that happening with me
the answer has to be 'no'.
[/quote]
It would appear to be that from the tone of this statement, you
are completely closed minded to allowing such an experience
happen to you. Makes me wonder if possibly this is why you have
never experienced anything remotely like this happening.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version (KJV)
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[quote author=Mike link=topic=590.msg5860#msg5860
date=1376160093]
All that's missing now is for someone like George to say he
could believe
[/quote]
Whilst I can admit to have never experienced anything of this
nature, myself, I don't believe Kerry to be a liar, and for that
reason I will remain to be open minded. I think the key words to
the above statement is that whether or not I do believe, I could
believe.
[/quote]
You are probably right as to why nothing of that nature never
has happened to me and never will.
However it is quite mischievious of you to claim that my reply
implied Kerry to be a liar.
The reality is that I believe him to be misled as to what it was
that he experienced.
There could be several explanations and I didn't attempt any one
of them.
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