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#Post#: 5825--------------------------------------------------
A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Mike Date: August 7, 2013, 2:22 am
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If, with the exception of God's elect Israelites, man's destiny
is either eternal life or eternal torment, dependant on
acceptance or rejection of Christ, which do you believe it will
be for those myriads of others who will have lived prior to
Christ or later, but never will have heard the gospel message?
#Post#: 5826--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Kerry Date: August 7, 2013, 1:11 pm
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And another question. If people who never heard the Gospel go
to hell eternally, what happens to Christians who fail to
spread the Gospel? Shouldn't they be held accountable?
Perhaps if they had done more, others wouldn't go to hell
eternally. Can we sit in the comfort of our homes, assured of
salvation ourselves while our inaction is condemning others to
eternal perdition?
Or take the case of a missionary who gets a message saying a man
is dying and wants to hear about Jesus. The missionary gets in
his car and rushes off, hoping to deliver the Gospel message
before the man dies; but he has a flat tire. It takes him ten
minutes to change it; and when he arrives at his destination,
he's told the man died five minutes ago. Can we believe
someone would go to hell eternally because another person had a
flat tire? Should the missionary be punished also for not
having better tires on his car? Or perhaps it was defective
tire, and the company that made it was in the wrong. Maybe
everyone at that company should be punished too. Or perhaps it
was one employee who wasn't doing job right and a defective tire
slipped through. So the employee doing a bad job could be
responsible for this dying man going to hell.
#Post#: 5827--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Mike Date: August 7, 2013, 1:41 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=588.msg5826#msg5826
date=1375899104]
And another question. If people who never heard the Gospel go
to hell eternally, what happens to Christians who fail to
spread the Gospel? Shouldn't they be held accountable?
Perhaps if they had done more, others wouldn't go to hell
eternally. Can we sit in the comfort of our homes, assured of
salvation ourselves while our inaction is condemning others to
eternal perdition?
Or take the case of a missionary who gets a message saying a man
is dying and wants to hear about Jesus. The missionary gets in
his car and rushes off, hoping to deliver the Gospel message
before the man dies; but he has a flat tire. It takes him ten
minutes to change it; and when he arrives at his destination,
he's told the man died five minutes ago. Can we believe
someone would go to hell eternally because another person had a
flat tire? Should the missionary be punished also for not
having better tires on his car? Or perhaps it was defective
tire, and the company that made it was in the wrong. Maybe
everyone at that company should be punished too. Or perhaps it
was one employee who wasn't doing job right and a defective tire
slipped through. So the employee doing a bad job could be
responsible for this dying man going to hell.
[/quote]
Oh dear....you'll have me disbelieving in 'Hellfire' for other
than the Devil, the Beast, and the False Prophet. ;) ::)
#Post#: 5828--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Kerry Date: August 7, 2013, 2:08 pm
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Here's something else. In Revelation we read that death and
hell are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Yet many people
persist in equating hell and the Lake of Fire; but they can't be
the same thing.
We also read that certain people are thrown into the Lake of
fire; but if you keep reading, we see them as being outside the
Holy City.
Then you also have the problem of the Last Judgment. If people
are condemned to hell already, why resurrect them to judge
them? Haven't they already been judged and sent to eternal
hell? This would be like a judge letting someone rot in
prison for a long time, saying we're in no hurry to try your
case. We'll hold your trial later after you've served past of
your sentence. I believe there is a benevolent purpose for
what some call purgatory and what the Jews call Gehinnom.
Sometimes the oldest traditions have things right. A soul is
given a preliminary judgment after death, and that judgment's
purpose is to reform the soul so it fares better at the Last
Judgment.
The idea of eternal hellfire was devised to frighten people, I
would say, to give the clergy power over the minds of men to
make them docile and obedient to the whims of the clergy. I
can see no passage in the Bible that justifies it.
#Post#: 5832--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Runner Date: August 7, 2013, 6:53 pm
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Agree Kerry.
Many people muddle up the lake of fire and hell itself.
[quote] If people are condemned to hell already, why resurrect
them to judge them? Haven't they already been judged and sent
to eternal hell? This would be like a judge letting someone
rot in prison for a long time, saying we're in no hurry to try
your case. We'll hold your trial later after you've served past
of your sentence. I believe there is a benevolent purpose for
what some call purgatory and what the Jews call
Gehinnom.[/quote]
Agree again.
#Post#: 6732--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: HOLLAND Date: January 16, 2014, 7:04 am
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My experience of leadings of Christ, from the perspective of a
Quaker, leads me to think that those who were born before
Christ, or, for reasons deriving from their human existence,
after Christ was born, who have not heard of salvation or for
some reason are not drawn to it shall be judged as to the light
that they have.
We must walk in the light that we have. For some, it may be
their own light, but God's light can shine in the back of that
light making His light shine; and in the end it is equal for us
all, we all are saved by God's grace.
Peace be with you all!
#Post#: 6735--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Saul Date: January 16, 2014, 8:15 am
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There are many things we won't know, in this life. But this is
where faith in a Just Father comes in. But there are hints.
Moses for example wasn't alive during Jesus' time for the New
Covenant and in fact he transgressed God. Yet, we see him in the
scriptures as being at the mount of transfiguration, so we can
assume that Moses is in fact a recpient of eternal life. Also,
there is Jesus' example of the rich man and lazarus, Jesus
clearly shows that Lazarus as well made it to Abraham's Bosom,
then we can safely assume after the crucifixation, eternal life
as well. We can and many do overthink issues that really aren't
ours to know. We can however, simply trust that God The Father
of Creation knows what He's doing.
#Post#: 6743--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: HOLLAND Date: January 17, 2014, 6:11 am
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^^^That sounds reasonable to me, Saul. If Moses is saved, it is
not our knowing and appropriating salvation, as if it is
something that one can own; but, rather, it is of God's grace,
one can enter the Kingdom if one has not heard or come to an
understanding and acceptance of Christ's salvation in this life.
The light and beneficence of God's grace is so wonderful!
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 6746--------------------------------------------------
Re: A question for those of a particular belief.
By: Kerry Date: January 17, 2014, 7:04 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=588.msg6732#msg6732
date=1389877449]
My experience of leadings of Christ, from the perspective of a
Quaker, leads me to think that those who were born before
Christ, or, for reasons deriving from their human existence,
after Christ was born, who have not heard of salvation or for
some reason are not drawn to it shall be judged as to the light
that they have.
We must walk in the light that we have. For some, it may be
their own light, but God's light can shine in the back of that
light making His light shine; and in the end it is equal for us
all, we all are saved by God's grace.
[/quote]I agree with you; but I wonder what you think of what
Abraham was told. Why did his offspring have to be afflicted
for 400 years? Why did the iniquity of the Amorites have to
come to its fullness? There appears to be cycles of night and
day.
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