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#Post#: 5855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: Kerry Date: August 9, 2013, 1:22 pm
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=583.msg5848#msg5848
date=1376024506]
If you view a pyramid from its central axis with one of its
three sides horizontal at the top or the bottom, then when it
rotates the three points on the horizontal plain appear at
different vertical heights according to how close they are to
your eye (more so the closer you are).
How does that fit with spiritual significance?[/quote]
What we see is relative depending on our perspective. You could
have as many people flying in airplanes as you want flying
around the world; and what they see would depend on their
location. If you assume they are all sane and honest, they
would all tell you different things if you talked to them. Who
is right? Why all of them, of course. We should be startled
if someone sees everything the way we do -- perhaps they're
lying to please us. Or perhaps they lack good judgment and are
depending on others to tell them what they're seeing.
The big picture is putting everything together. If you knew
their location, you might be able to map the whole world and
know what was there better than any one person could.
Put all the perspectives of everyone in the universe together,
and I'd say that comes close the Mind of God.
#Post#: 6298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: coldwar Date: November 14, 2013, 7:55 am
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"Still it's strange considering how important Egypt is to me now
in this lifetime."
Kerry, can I ask why Egypt is important to you?
Dave
#Post#: 6299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: Kerry Date: November 14, 2013, 8:57 am
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Surely. I'm glad you asked. I just had an overwhelming
insight into Egypt last week. What I am about to say is my
theory of things. I don't insist others believe it.
I believe a prior race of mankind lived on the earth before
Eden. In large part, it fell into spiritual depravity. Africa
is a far older culture than Europe and older too than Asia, I
think. I'd say only the aborigines in Australia predate man in
Africa.
A great many people in Africa achieved spiritual perfection
thousands and thousands of years ago. Some of them did this
before there was a human species that spirits took up residence
in. Africa -- and Atlantis -- were the center of culture.
When the problems came, the continent of Africa fell into deep
spiritual darkness. The people have failed to attain
spiritual perfection. Thus they continue to incarnate although
the period assigned to them is over. Yes, I am a subscriber to
the idea of root races. The "white man" was the next root race
to emerge; and it also fell into spiritual turmoil. Thus the
"Edomites" remain a problem.
The continent of Africa is tied intimately to the fate of the
whole world since the unresolved problems of the prior age
remain waiting to be resolved. And Egypt is pivotal because of
its location on the highways of light. Some highways go north
and south and others go east and west. The Light coming into
the earth via the northern polar region descends southward along
four paths. Then it divides outwards and continues southward;
and some Light also begins to travel from east to west. The
highway Isaiah talked about ran from Babylon to Jerusalem and
then to Egypt. I've seen that highway. It's there but not
fully formed and functional; and wherever it does touch earth,
the forces of darkness collect to try to block the Divine Light.
Egypt and what happens there influences the entire continent of
Africa. Africa affects the whole world.
The insight I got last week was that Moses was not one of the
144,000 of Israel -- not the original Israel. His soul was one
of the native Egyptian souls that saw the Light and came to it
and then agreed to be inside Israel. Bithiah, the daughter of
Pharoah, incarnated first, and the souls of many other
"Egyptians" incarnated as children of Israel. They were
"grafted on" -- not by converting but by being born into the
families of Israel. However, I suspect some did convert --
because if you study the numbers, you'll see that in a few
generations 70 souls became well over a million since there
were 600,000 men alone.
So that was the first big wave of adding Gentiles onto the
Edenic stock. I think this explains some of the great
difficulties Israel faced. Their rebellions for one. Can we
believe that the original 144,000 could rebel so?
So yes, I have racial ideas about religion; but never should we
believe any race is inferior. I do think however that the
spiritual problems or karma of the races are different. The
white man should have been more benevolent. While it is true
the white man spread the Gospel around the world and many great
evils (like human sacrifice) were eliminated, the white man was
also ruthless. He has that karma. To a degree he owes the
black man something. The black race however tend to owe each
other, still given to tribalism and superstition and all kinds
of division.
I was also startled to hear the other day some news about
phosphorus. Africa will become extremely important in a
decade or so. The world's supply of phosphates is running low.
America has a fairly good supply but has recently started to
import some from Mexico. China has a fairly good supply, but
they imposed restrictions on exporting. (I don't know if those
restrictions are still in place.) Estimates vary, but my guess
is it's safe to say that Morocco has well over three quarters of
all the world's phosphates that can be mined.
Agriculture today depends on phosphates. As other countries'
supplies dwindle, Morocco will come to dominate the world's
supply more than the Arab states ever dominated the oil market.
Industrialized countries believed that they could curb oil
consumption by going with ethanol -- and that requires growing
more corn. And that requires more phosphates. It is ironic
then that the rush to cut oil consumption is increasing the
demand for phosphates. The price has already gone up
drastically, increasing the cost of grain and thus of bread.
The diversion of corn for ethanol has also increased the price
of flour -- causing unrest in some of the poorest countries --
and Egypt is one where the price of bread has gone up. The
people expect the government to keep the price down by
subsidies.
To aggravate matters more, the area in Morocco with the most
phosphate is the Western Sahara, an area troubled by conflict
between the Moroccan government and the Polisario Front. (We
can thank Spain for how things evolved here after they
withdrew.) So far, the Polisario Front has not been
infiltrated by religious extremists; but however things go
there, it's safe to assume that Egypt and other nations in the
area will increasingly wish to interfere as well as any other
country that wants to import phosphates.
Ultimately the solution would be to get Africa moving
agriculturally. They have lots of arable land that isn't used
productively. Even without phosphates, they could grow lots
more food than they do now; and to be honest, using phosphates
as fertilizer is terribly polluting. We are polluting the
oceans to feed billions of people without wondering what will
happen if -- no, make that when -- the phosphates begin to get
so expensive, those billions of people can't be fed. Egypt may
be among the first to face the situation. It already has high
unemployment and grinding poverty; but I don't think they can
grow much more food there. People manage to get by only because
of subsidized prices of bread; and that is adding to frictions
too. Add to that the plan to end subsidies on gas, fuel, etc.
If all of northern Africa became a federation, I think that
would solve a lot of problems for all of them. If they could
federate with other countries that can grow food, it would make
all Africa a better place. As it is now, every little country
has its military and often gets into wars with their neighbors.
The Chinese and the Europeans are still preying on Africa,
making money out of their natural resources. It is my hope
that Egypt will emerge as leader in Africa.
#Post#: 7861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: coldwar Date: June 14, 2014, 1:36 pm
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Kerry - I notice you always seem to refer to Karma as a bad
thing, but by definition, there is "good karma and bad karma",
as if a balance must be achieved.
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma
As for reincarnation, it would help me a lot to find some
passages about it in the Old Testament; I Googled it, but came
up with next to nothing. It's certainly not difficult to find
the concept known as Karma throughout the Bible, but
reincarnation is an uncertain Biblical idea at best, I think. I
don't believe that karma and reincarnation necessarily go
hand-in-hand - you can have the one without the other.
#Post#: 7872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: Kerry Date: June 14, 2014, 5:18 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=583.msg7861#msg7861
date=1402771013]
Kerry - I notice you always seem to refer to Karma as a bad
thing, but by definition, there is "good karma and bad karma",
as if a balance must be achieved.
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma[/quote]Come
to think of it, I
don't know if I would say karma is either good or bad. You
could say the pluses are good karma and the minuses are bad
karma; but the person with the positive balance is still tied to
the person with the negative balance.
If I want to tie someone to me, I can do that by accepting abuse
cheerfully. I'm like bait for the fish to eat. Then they owe
me. When the Romans sentenced Jesus and nailed him to the
cross, Jesus was fishing with himself as the bait. Since he
did not rail at them or return evil for evil, he incurred karma
deliberately. You could call that "good karma" on his part and
"bad karma" on their part; but it tied them together.
You are indeed "blessed" if men revile you or persecute you for
his sake -- if youi can keep your cool and not return evil for
evil. The people who revile or persecute you will be saved.
They are like fish on a hook or in a net. The reason is that
the godlike part in them will not rest until that problem is
solved and balanced.
Yes, Jesus taught Peter how to be a fisher of men; and Peter
died too. The Church of Rome was the result. The more
Christians that got put to death, the stronger the karmic ties
-- and thus the Roman Empire was converted.
[quote]As for reincarnation, it would help me a lot to find some
passages about it in the Old Testament; I Googled it, but came
up with next to nothing.[/quote]It is like so many other Jewish
ideas -- not explicitly put down in the Scriptures. The Hebrew
word "gilgul" means "wheel" and can also mean "reincarnation."
[quote]It's certainly not difficult to find the concept known as
Karma throughout the Bible, but reincarnation is an uncertain
Biblical idea at best, I think. I don't believe that karma and
reincarnation necessarily go hand-in-hand - you can have the one
without the other.[/quote]
Some things must be pieced together. Some passages when put
together don't make sense without reincarnation. Here are two:
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and
transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the
guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children,
and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the
fourth generation.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall
not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father
bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous
shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be
upon him.
I have no problem with those passages. There is no
contradiction in them for me. I say if we think the Bible has
contradictions, the first thing we should do is ask ourselves if
we are interpreting things right. While I concede the Bible has
errors here and there, they are rare -- and most of what
appears contradictory is the result of our not re-examining our
own views.
Reincarnation, like the ideas about heaven and hell and the
afterlife, can be distractions. People love to speculate; and
that can be a distraction from the task at hand. We do not
really need to know that much about the future if we trust God.
If we believe God is just, what is there to worry about if we
are earnestly doing what we think is right?
I would say the Old Testament is a closed book for the most part
without the basic assumptions about God. One basic assumption
is that God is Love. Thus the correct tradition is that which
Jesus expressed (as Rabbi Hillel had before him) that all the
Law and Prophets were about love. Yet so much of Christian
theology tries to justify Christians who lived after Jesus was
on the earth -- as if God didn't care as much about the people
who lived before. The Jews can tell you who they think was who
in the Old Testament. Some have different opinions, to be sure.
But it's part of their oracles.
We are also told -- invariably -- that we will be judged
according to our works. That does not go down well with many
Christians. They want to be judged by what Jesus did. I say
what Jesus did was make it easier for us to become better people
-- easier to balance our karma -- easier to do good works. But
this seems to be dodged by many who want to talk about grace or
faith. Surely we receive it by grace! Surely. Karma (bad
karma) is like debt -- if you rack up too much, you can't
possibly pay it off without help. Hence the idea of the
redeemer.
Jesus said in the parable that he is a "severe master" expecting
to reap where he didn't sow. It's true he helps us when we were
bankrupt -- and the way we repay him is to help others. He
expects a return on his money.
Here is another text that seems baffling at first:
Mark 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you,
There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters,
or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my
sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses,
and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands,
with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.
Why insist on giving up things if the intention is to give you
more after you give them up? Idols must be removed. If
something is an idol to you and you are one of God's elect, you
will have trouble with it. God will arrange it for you to have
trouble with it until you learn to love people more than your
idol. When it's no longer an idol, then it's safe to give it
to you. You need never worry about having that again.
Why promise them persecutions? Why not? Surely they need them
at times -- first to balance "bad karma" and secondly to "fish
for others." You can add a third -- to teach us not to worry
about such things. If you should fall, God's angels will bear
you up. (Psalm 91:11)
I've seen some intricate explanations about the hundred houses
and so on; but I have no problem thinking God could provide me a
hundred houses in a hundred lifetimes if I lived that many
times.
How Christians read the Old Testament sections about "hell" is
also influenced by their rejection of reincarnation. To the
Jews, Gehinnom is a place of purification of souls. That way,
they aren't born with same errors of the mind and soul. You
could compare it to deleting errors in a computer program and
then asking the person to write new programming for those parts.
Somehow the Christians started to believe "hell" was eternal
once you went there. I think it was a scare tactic myself,
meant to inspire terror and thus blind obedience to what they
were told to do. "Obey us or fry in hell eternally."
Yet the Catholics and Orthodox had the practice of praying for
the dead. They knew people had prayed for the dead just as the
Jews did; but they really couldn't explain how it worked. The
Catholics resorted to the idea of purgatory which the Orthodox
don't embrace -- the Orthodox seem vague about things. Then
along came the Protestants and they reduced things to two
options, "heaven" and "hell." This too inspired fear and
terrified many into obeying their ministers.
You may find it hard to believe; but I met a woman I loved in a
past life but I killed her. I kept getting pictures of pushing
her off a cliff. No, I never told her. But the day came one
day when I offered to let her kill me. I told that story before
-- she wanted to stab her boyfriend and I got between them and
told her she'd have to kill me first. I would stand there and
let her do it. I would have. She didn't. The karma was
balanced. It's not always necessary to be killed if you killed;
but I knew it would have been fair if she had killed me. I was
relying on her True Nature -- just as I was relying on my own.
I knew I regretted killing her and knew she did not really want
to kill me. Wanting to kill is an illusion of samsara. No, I
still never told her I had murdered her in a past life. It
didn't matter anymore.
#Post#: 8008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: coldwar Date: June 23, 2014, 12:10 pm
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You're saying a whole lot of things here, but I picked up on
this, and am in total agreement:
^ "Africa will become extremely important in a decade or so."
Here's a scripture that alludes to much of what you've said, I
believe -
Amos 9: 5 And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the
land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn:
and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned,
as by the flood of Egypt. 6 It is he that buildeth his stories
in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that
calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the
face of the earth: The LORD is his name. 7 Are ye not as
children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith
the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt?
and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir? 8
Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom,
(Israel's present land, I think, called "Sodom and Egypt") and I
will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I
will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. 9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel
among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall
not the least grain fall upon the earth. 10 All the sinners of
my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not
overtake nor prevent us. 11 ¶In that day will I raise up the
tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches
thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as
in the days of old: 12 That they may possess the remnant of
Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith
the LORD that doeth this.
Herein is one of history's best kept secrets - that the
Israelites are "as the Ethiopians" (black), and were brought up
out of Egypt (wherein they were hard to distinguish from the
Egyptian people) into Palestine.
Africa will rise again!
#Post#: 8009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: Kerry Date: June 23, 2014, 1:17 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=583.msg8008#msg8008
date=1403543445]
You're saying a whole lot of things here, but I picked up on
this, and am in total agreement:
^ "Africa will become extremely important in a decade or so."
Here's a scripture that alludes to much of what you've said, I
believe -[/quote]I looked up to see what Rashi had to say about
this passage.
[quote] Amos 9: 5 And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth
the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall
mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be
drowned, as by the flood of Egypt. 6 It is he that buildeth his
stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth;
he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out
upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name. 7 Are ye not
as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel?
saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of
Egypt? [/quote]
Read this as a type of mocking, saying to them that they acted
as if they couldn't change the way the Cu****es could not change
their color.
Jeremiah 13:22 And if thou say in thine heart, Wherefore come
these things upon me? For the greatness of thine iniquity are
thy skirts discovered, and thy heels made bare.
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard
his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do
evil.
24 Therefore will I scatter them as the stubble that passeth
away by the wind of the wilderness.
The word "Ethiopian" is better translated Cu****e being Kuwshiy
in Hebrew.
HTML http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.php?bnum=30&cnum=9&vnum=7
[quote]and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from
Kir? [/quote]
This is about the people removed from Caphtor:
Deuteronomy 2:23 And the Avims which dwelt in Hazerim, even unto
Azzah, the Caphtorims, which came forth out of Caphtor,
destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead.)
The Syrians were later removed from Kir according to Rashi when
Sennacherib invaded. The parallel is that Israel would exiled
just as these peoples had been.
[quote]8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful
kingdom, (Israel's present land, I think, called "Sodom and
Egypt") and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth;
saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith
the LORD. 9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house
of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve,
yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. 10 All the
sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil
shall not overtake nor prevent us. 11 ¶In that day will I raise
up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the
breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will
build it as in the days of old: 12 That they may possess the
remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my
name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
Herein is one of history's best kept secrets - that the
Israelites are "as the Ethiopians" (black), and were brought up
out of Egypt (wherein they were hard to distinguish from the
Egyptian people) into Palestine.
Africa will rise again![/quote]I say this is a myth. If you
said Moses' wife may have been black, I might believe that. I
think she was; and I think the objection to her raised by Miriam
was racist. As a punishment, Miriam was turned very white with
leprosy.
There is a tribe somewhere in Africa that claims to be descended
from Israel; and I think maybe they are. Oh, Nigeria:
HTML http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/world/africa/nigeria-jews-igbo/
There is another tribe in Zimbabwe that has the genetic markers
which are evidence that they too are descendants of Israel.
HTML http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136374#.U6huNm0VtfQ
But being "Jewish" is hard to figure. They tended to mix with
native populations. Today they resemble the peoples they lived
with. I do find it interesting how Israel has mixed in with
other people -- compare to the Scripture you cited: "will sift
the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in
a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth."
But here is a question: If Ethiopians and Israelites were the
same color then, why did Jeremiah note the color of the skin of
the Ethiopians?
#Post#: 8017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: coldwar Date: June 24, 2014, 6:36 am
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Here's one you gotta love - from 1968, and re-released in 1975 -
went Top-10 both times:
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Y2hv-3UCM
Don't you love that bass guitar line? It's great!
Raised devoutly Christian, I'm not sure if Desmond became
Rastafari or not (later concert footage would suggest he's not -
his hair remains short), but, like the Jamaican Rastas, in this
song he has this awareness of his identity as an Israelite. His
earlier songs would draw from the Old Testament, like "Honour
your Father and Your Mother" (That Your Days Might be Long In
the Land).
You are correct about some African tribes believing themselves
to have Israelite ancestry, but this song, from this one man
(along with the cultish Rastafaris, represented by Bob Marley,
Peter Tosh, Jimmy Cliff, and so many others) show how this
"awareness" goes beyond Africa. My question - if some Africans,
and these boys from Jamaica all believe they're Israelites, and
it has been somehow proven and recognized by the rest of the
world, why would any of the ancient Israelites be other than
black?
#Post#: 8021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: Kerry Date: June 24, 2014, 2:18 pm
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^ There has frequently been an identification between Israel in
Egypt and transplanted blacks in America. You can see that in
the spirituals of the slaves. The situation is parallel, but I
don't think it means blacks are all descended from Israel. The
concept seems to have a life of its own though -- being
transmitted to President Obama while in church. By no means
however can he claim any identity with slaves in America; yet he
identified with it. From his speech in Philadelphia
HTML http://constitutioncenter.org/amoreperfectunion/:
In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the
experience of my first service at Trinity: "People began to
shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful
wind carrying the reverend's voice up into the rafters....And in
that single note - hope! - I heard something else; at the foot
of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city,
I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the
stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians
in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. Those stories -
of survival, and freedom, and hope - became our story, my story;
the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears;
until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a
vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations
and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once
unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling
our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim
memories that we didn't need to feel shame about...memories that
all people might study and cherish - and with which we could
start to rebuild."
#Post#: 8024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reincarnation
By: coldwar Date: June 24, 2014, 5:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
^ "I don't think it means blacks are all descended from Israel"
True - only some blacks are descended from Israel, but most are
still "African", and except for those who still observe the Laws
of YHWH, as those in Ethiopia, have nothing to do with Israel.
But (so the theory goes) they look so much alike, there were
frequent instances of mistaking them for Africans, especially
Egyptians.
But it could be that all true Israelites after the flesh are
black, couldn't it? Those we know as ethnic Israelites / Jews
today were transplants (so the theory goes) from Babylon into
Samaria (II Kings 17:23-29-early) and from Khazaria (later, as
written in "The Thirteenth Tribe" - Koestler). it's kind of like
"British Israel-ism" except in another colour.
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