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#Post#: 5010--------------------------------------------------
Sibling Rivalry
By: Kerry Date: June 3, 2013, 6:11 pm
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The first case of sibling rivalry we see in Genesis is, of
course, with Cain and Abel.
4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare
Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
"Knew" implies a spiritual union as well as a physical one.
Note that Eve speaks as though prophetically and says Cain is a
gift from God. Note too that Cain is born before Abel, just the
way we will see later Esau was born before Jacob, and just as we
saw earlier that darkness preceded the light.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of
sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
It is not said that Adam knew her again, only that she bare
again, leading some to believe that Cain and Abel were twins.
Should we interpret the sheep and the ground literally or
spiritually? I incline to think it could be both; and
spiritually this means to me that Abel nurtured the peaceful
animal nature by taming the wild beast in himself while Cain
ignored the problem of the crouching beast within to try to till
the ground which had been cursed.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of
the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and
of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to
his offering:
Again I give this a spiritual interpretation meaning Abel
presented something of himself as a living sacrifice.
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken
and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
If Abel did sacrifice a lamb physically, it was surely
accompanied by the correct sacrifice of the heart, the
circumcised heart.
Cain's sacrifice was of the fruit of the land, and this was
paltry and small since the land was cursed. Note also that the
curse of death on mankind is associated with the curse on the
land and on vegetation.
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,
till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken:
for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
This suggests that in spiritual terms Cain was trying to please
God so his body would not return to dust. In terms of the
Crucifixion, Abel presented the lamb as the sacrifice while Cain
mistakenly offered only the tree.
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain
was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
The untamed beast within was roused. Why did his face fall? He
lost something of his humanity, becoming less human.
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is
thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou
doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be
his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
"Him" and "his" refer to sin, not to a person. Cain is told
that the evil urge is waiting to pounce on him but that he can
always choose correctly and master it if he wishes. He should
not be angry that his first sacrifice was inadequate since he
can correct this state of affairs by doing better in the future.
Cain's hurt feelings stayed with him; and I believe that shows
God's message to repent and to look forward to a better future
went unheeded. Surely the words of Jesus come to mind:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with
his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger
of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in
danger of hell fire.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass,
when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his
brother, and slew him.
Indeed Cain's nursing his anger and perhaps relishing it brought
about this temptation to sin, then the sin, and finally his
judgment. Thus I say when we find ourselves nursing grudges or
having emotions we know are unhealthy, it is in fact an
opportunity for us to let go of "the beast" within before we
allow that beast to rise up and rule over us. The guidance of
the Holy Spirit wants us to rule over the beast so it doesn't
rule over us.
We are not told what the discussion was about; but in such
situations, when someone has inappropriate emotions, it is next
to impossible to discuss things rationally. No matter what is
said, it can be interpreted incorrectly. I cannot say I know,
but I wonder if Cain felt inferior to Abel and interpreted
Abel's sound advice as smug condescension?
9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he
said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
We cannot believe God asked this question to gain information.
Rather we should believe God asked it to try to get Cain to come
clean; but Cain added two more sins to the mix, lying to God and
pretending that he had no obligation to his fellow man, not even
to his brother. Again we see Cain's nature being like a
predatory beast, not like a sheep which forms a flock under the
protection of a shepherd.
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's
blood crieth unto me from the ground.
The word "blood" is plural. There are varying explanations for
this. Some say it means the blood of Abel and all his future
children who would not be born; others say Cain struck Abel many
times, perhaps unsure from what part of the body his soul would
leave so he kept hacking at him. I give it a third
interpretation meaning both Abel's physical blood and also his
spiritual blood since I believe Abel loved Cain and wished for
him to be redeemed.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her
mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield
unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be
in the earth.
Cain's devotion to the vegetation principle had resulted in a
worsening of the curse on the vegetation. By seeking to
preserve self instead of offering self as a living sacrifice, he
brought about a worse situation.
13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I
can bear.
Almost every translation renders this as a statement; but the
Jews say this is really a question in Hebrew. It should read,
"Is my iniquity too great to bear?" We are apt to think of Cain
bearing it, but it doesn't really say that. Now surely Cain was
thinking of himself as well, but he had to understand too that
God could be merciful. Is he not asking for mercy? So the
question can be about God also: "You bear the weight of both
heaven and of earth -- is this too much for you to bear also?
Is there any hope for me in your eyes?"
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the
earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a
fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass,
that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Three things are noted here: The face of the earth, the face of
God (or being "before" Him) and the "every one" that finds him.
Note that it does not say "every human being." In Hebrew, it's
kol the word for "everything." Thus even the animals would want
to kill him if they saw him. Thus we learn that man, when he
becomes too much of "the beast" appears as an abomination even
to the animals. The animals themselves wish to rise up and
eradicate it from the earth. Thus the dogs ate Jezebel and the
birds Goliath; and it is said also that the beasts will eat some
people:
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his
name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And
power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to
kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the
beasts of the earth.
15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain,
vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a
mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
I would say God removed part of the mark of the beast from his
forehead -- the same mark I would say David saw in Goliath's
forehead and took aim at with his slingshot -- and replaced it
in part with the Seal of God, in order that Cain and his
descendants might come to repentance.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in
the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch:
and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after
the name of his son, Enoch.
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and
Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was
Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in
tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all
such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every
artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was
Naamah.
Some say Naamah is mentioned here since she became Noah's wife,
thus preserving the line of Cain. It is also said that Ham
married a daughter of the children of Cain.
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my
voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have
slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
There is a story that says Lamech was blind and being led by
Tubalcain who saw Cain and told Lamech to draw his bow because
Cain looked like a wild animal to Tubalcain. When Lamech
learned he had killed his ancestor, he then "clapped his hands"
according to the story and killed Tubalcain also. The story is
obscure, and I don't know what to make of it.
It is said that Lamech's wives left him after this accident and
he was trying to appease them by explaining the situation.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and
sevenfold.
Meaning, of course, that Cain was granted mercy when he had
killed his brother intentionally while he had killed two people
unintentionally. We see that judgment fell on Cain's offspring
after seven generations; it is uncertain what Lamech's words
here mean, but I incline to believe God was willing to grant
even more mercy since his actions were not the result of
malice. We see the Flood coming, eradicating (for the most part
or completely) the male line of Cain; but I believe the line
continued through intermarriage with Noah and Ham. Thus we can
believe that "Canaan" was a type of Kenite or Cainite; and the
preservation of this line was so they could be granted mercy.
We often read of the Canaanites or Kenites as cursed people; but
let us remember too that Moses married Zipporah who was of the
Kenites. The purpose in preserving the line was for its
correction.
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called
his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed
instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
This verse may help explain the word "bloods" above. I believe
the intended offspring of Abel were born to Seth. Thus I do not
interpret "bloods" to include the blood of his unborn offspring.
#Post#: 22862--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sibling Rivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 13, 2019, 8:07 pm
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Kerry, what do you think THE curse was/is? Some people say
poverty is a curse. Others say The Law was the curse. I guess
there are many examples of a curse.
I was reading what you said and if I recall you said death was a
curse. That Adam was cursed and the ground was cursed. But what
was THE curse? If there is one.
#Post#: 22894--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sibling Rivalry
By: Kerry Date: June 15, 2019, 7:03 pm
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[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=526.msg22862#msg22862
date=1560474464]
Kerry, what do you think THE curse was/is? Some people say
poverty is a curse. Others say The Law was the curse. I guess
there are many examples of a curse.
I was reading what you said and if I recall you said death was a
curse. That Adam was cursed and the ground was cursed. But what
was THE curse? If there is one.
[/quote]I reread parts of Genesis and got a new insight. Thanks
for motivating me to reread it.
The first curse mentioned was to Adam when the vegetation was
cursed. The body of man can live without the animating soul;
we see that with people who have comas. As you know, some of
them visit other places when they leave the body. The physical
body by itself can called a vegetable. Indeed we call people in
long comas as being in a vegetative state. The curse then on
the plants also affected the body of man. I think that's the
death of the physical body. I believe there is something wrong
with matter itself, at the atomic level. It does not always do
what the spirit of a man wants. It is disobedient at times.
You can raise your hand if you want just by taking thought and
then willing it to happen. Our bodies in large part do obey
us; but there is something wrong with it too. Our bodies get
sick and die. What we want doesn't change that. That is not
the way God wants it to be. The error is at the atomic level
and seems to manifest at the junction where "dead matter"
becomes "live plant life."
A second curse falls when Cain sins. The word "sin" is used
about this. It is not used about Adam and Eve. This curse came
about after the shedding of blood. My additional insight came
when I asked myself if this involved "hell" since Revelation
says death and hell will be done away with, thrown into the Lake
of Fire. So could this curse be what made the descendants of
Adam subject to hell?
Then I noticed that a correlation can be made to the Bread and
Wine -- the Body and Blood of Christ. If the body became
fallen through the error of Adam and Eve, then I can believe
that the soul became contaminated through the error of Cain.
This meant that when the body died, the soul could wander off
and get lost. As more people with contaminated souls did
this, hell would get bigger.
I do not see God as creating hell. I see hell as the projection
of the sinful soul. If the attention and drive of someone is
violent when he has a physical body, that violence in the soul
does not disappear immediately after death. That soul has
pictures of violence in its mind -- and it creates hell. Hell
is almost like a dream, I'd say, a very bad dream.
I believe Jesus came to reverse both curses. The Bread and
Wine of Communion show that to me.
I would say those who say the Law was a curse are mistaken.
They seem to base this belief on some of Paul's writings
forgetting to read what other parts of the Bible say of it. I
also wish Paul had written more clearly.
The Law of Moses was given to lead Israel to life. They were
given a choice between life and death, cursing and blessing.
Any "curse" of the law came about by disobedience.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day
against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing
and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed
may live:
God's desire was that they would choose life and blessing. I
would not say the Law was a curse if people took what God wanted
to be a blessing and created a curse by willful disobedience.
If someone lacks spiritual awareness and a connection with the
Holy Spirit, he cannot be expected to obey the Voice of God
since he can't hear it. He needs an intercessor, a teacher, a
leader who has the Holy Spirit. Moses created a set of rules
for Israel since they lacked that connection, having rejected
the Voice of God. Those rules were not perfect in that there
would be exceptions to them at times. As Jesus put it, if you
had an animal in distress on the Sabbath, you'd help it. That
would be the right thing to do, too. Some of the rules Moses
gave Israel also were fine in that cultural context but would be
misguided in a different cultural context. The Sanhedrin was
supposed to re-interpret the Written Law then so people who
lacked the Holy Spirit could do the right thing.
The purpose of the Law of Moses was to bring people around to
seeking righteousness and correcting the flaws they found in
themselves to bring them to the point where they wanted to hear
the Voice of God. Some Jews still study the Law of Moses
seeking the Spirit of Love behind it -- thus elevating
themselves above the letter (or literal) into the spiritual.
If someone without the covering of the Holy Spirit kept the
rules the best he could, he would still be making mistakes; but
they would be sins of ignorance and not willful sins. Sins of
ignorance are easily forgiven if the person is persevering in
seeking Wisdom from God.
I cannot see any curses as coming from God. If there are any
passages which state it that way, we need to interpret them
spiritually not literally since God is Love. Blessings and
curses cannot both come from Him. I read Genesis'
descriptions of these curses as God informing people about the
curses they brought about themselves, not as God Himself cursing
them.
Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because
thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above
every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened
unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which
I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is
the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the
days of thy life;
Genesis 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath
opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
This is like a doctor telling someone, "You are sick." The
doctor is stating a truth. We should not think the doctor made
his patient sick.
Those who say the Law is a curse must not have read the Psalms.
Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul:
the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
What Jesus did was to provide a better connection between Heaven
and men and women on earth by establishing a strong connection
himself and then allowing us to attach ourselves to him -- so we
could share the same Spirit to be guided by, without all the
rules and regulations given to Moses. It is easier, to be sure.
Studying the laws given to Moses and trying to figure them all
out by asking "Where is the love in it?" is quite a task.
The same potential for a curse exist for the Christian if he
accepts Jesus as his connection with Heaven and then disobeys.
He can cut himself off. That does not mean he's necessarily
doomed eternally in my book. It means he's back where Israel
was, left to struggle on his own more or less. If someone
completely rejects the Holy Spirit in a matter, the Spirit will
give up, leaving him to his own devices in that matter. If he
does it in too many matters, the Spirit can leave him entirely.
That still does not doom him eternally. He has done what
Israel did when they said they did not want to hear the Voice of
God.
#Post#: 22896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sibling Rivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 15, 2019, 8:30 pm
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^I appreciate your taking the time to explain all this. Today
probably wouldn't be a good time for me to reply because my
focus and concentration isn't what it needs to be. Maybe I'll be
able to reply to it soon and I hope I can because I'm trying to
understand this better. So I'll wait a little bit and get back
to this when I'm able to.
#Post#: 22899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sibling Rivalry
By: Kerry Date: June 16, 2019, 5:06 am
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[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=526.msg22896#msg22896
date=1560648629]
^I appreciate your taking the time to explain all this. Today
probably wouldn't be a good time for me to reply because my
focus and concentration isn't what it needs to be. Maybe I'll be
able to reply to it soon and I hope I can because I'm trying to
understand this better. So I'll wait a little bit and get back
to this when I'm able to.
[/quote]Do take your time. One lesson I learned from Cain is
that if I can hold my tongue, it's a lot easier to to avoid
making other mistakes.
I know I'd be tempted to say wrong things when talking to my
family if they had done to me what yours did to you. My prayer
is that you do not allow yourself to fall into the trap of
returning evil for evil in the coming days. All is not lost,
you know. Good may come of it in the end if you stand fast as
an example of modesty and love. Sometimes people never
acknowledge things but still see the example and change
themselves. May God be with you.
#Post#: 22920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sibling Rivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 17, 2019, 11:48 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=526.msg22899#msg22899
date=1560679574]
Do take your time. One lesson I learned from Cain is that if I
can hold my tongue, it's a lot easier to to avoid making other
mistakes.
I know I'd be tempted to say wrong things when talking to my
family if they had done to me what yours did to you. My prayer
is that you do not allow yourself to fall into the trap of
returning evil for evil in the coming days. All is not lost,
you know. Good may come of it in the end if you stand fast as
an example of modesty and love. Sometimes people never
acknowledge things but still see the example and change
themselves. May God be with you.
[/quote]
This has a long history in my family. So I shouldn't really be
surprised. After all, I was in foster care for ten years so I
wasn't around to form a close bond with my half brothers and
half sisters and my mother. Too much time away from my family.
Too many lost years.
I'll just go ahead and say it. It was hell being in foster care.
I was thrown to the wolves when I was eight years old. There
were also other people who had access to me, evil people, who
forced me to see and experience the darkest depths of evil and
what people are capable of and children are their main targets.
That's the system and the way it's set up. Children in foster
care are so easy to access that way. I tried after leaving
foster care to reunite with my family and try to form a close
bond with them but it just didn't happen. Sorry if this is TMI
but it's all connected.
It did hurt and upset me that they didn't even send me a text
message. It really did. I'll get over it in time.
#Post#: 22934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sibling Rivalry
By: guest6 Date: June 18, 2019, 3:48 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=526.msg22899#msg22899
date=1560679574]
Do take your time. One lesson I learned from Cain is that if I
can hold my tongue, it's a lot easier to to avoid making other
mistakes.
I know I'd be tempted to say wrong things when talking to my
family if they had done to me what yours did to you. My prayer
is that you do not allow yourself to fall into the trap of
returning evil for evil in the coming days. All is not lost,
you know. Good may come of it in the end if you stand fast as
an example of modesty and love. Sometimes people never
acknowledge things but still see the example and change
themselves. May God be with you.
[/quote]
I've been able to hold my tongue and not say wrong things to my
family. Still not a word from any of them. No communication at
all. Maybe that's best for now. My sons aren't very happy about
it either. She was their grandmother. No matter what's happened
between my mother and me, she was still my mother. I'll try to
focus on the good memories I had with her although there aren't
that many. As for my half brothers and half sisters, maybe one
day they will come around and things will get better between us.
I hope so.
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