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#Post#: 3707--------------------------------------------------
Is God active in the world today?
By: George Date: February 13, 2013, 10:00 am
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It is often said that everything that happens is Gods will,
He allows it therefor it is His will. We also often hear about
miracles. Someone was healed from a sickness, or someone come
across some funds in a time of need, there are all sorts of
things that happen that are credited to a miracle from God. I
personally am not convinced of either the concept that whatever
God allows is His will or that God performs miracles.
If We are to believe that whatever God allows is Gods will
then it is Gods will that children starve to death every day, or
people die of disease, or that there are 1000's of denominations
that argue in His name. In order for that to be Gods will to me
would consist of God having action in the events occurring. When
God wills something it happens. Now God allows everything to
happen. What action does it take for God to allow? Nothing,
correct? I can sit back and allow my children to misbehave. it
takes no action on my part, it is actually a lack of action to
allow. You did nothing! You simply allowed it to happen. Am I
wrong?
Miracles, Does God answer prayer by performing miracles? Is
that the only thing that one prays for when asking Father help
me in this time of need, Father help me in this time of
sickness. Are they asking for a miracle? Are we to believe that
God is selecting and choosing who's prayer He will answer, what
miracle will He do today, and who will be the lucky fellow or
lady that will receive a blessing and experience a miracle? Is
it a miracle if someone commits a crime and suffers the minimum
punishment. Lets say a man robs a bank but doesn't go to jail.
He made a mistake and realized that he had made a mistake, he
repented, he admitted to the crime, his church is supporting
him, they are praying vigorously at every get together, that he
doesn't go to prison. The man goes to court, and receives house
arrest and probation. Is that a miracle from God?
Another man is sick he is in the hospital receiving treatment
after treatment, the problem continues to come back, the doctors
say we must resort to the last solution, if this doesn't work
there is nothing more we can do. They proceed to do the
procedure and it is a failure. But the man doesn't get sick
after the procedure. The illness is wiped out during the
procedure and is expected to return but does not. Is that a
miracle from God?
Does God act on our selfish whims? When we want, when we need,
when we feel we should receive a miracle? I believe God has
supplied all that we need before hand. Can God be just and fair
if He selects and chooses who's prayers will be answered and who
will receive a miracle?
Lets say a dads sons said dad we want to have some freedom, we
want to build our own club house to get away. Dad says well I
will allow you both to do that and I will supply what you need
to do it; But you want the free will to do it your way, not my
way, alright I will allow it. So dad gives them both all the
wood and nails and tools they need to build there club house,
one measures wrong and falls short, he needs more wood. The
other builds it wrong and doesn't brace it up properly and it
falls, breaking several pieces of wood. Now what are they to do?
It will take a miracle to complete there club house without any
more wood. So they go to the dad at separate times and tell him
what happen and then they start to ask every day, Can I have
some more wood for my club house, and the other one asks. And
day after day they continue to ask for wood. Then one morning
the son who broke his wood goes outside and sees a stack of
wood. He doesn't know where it came from; but the other son has
no wood when he wakes up. Is that a fair just dad? Why would he
answer one request but choose not to answer the other?
Are we to believe that a perfect God acts in this way? Answering
some prays with a yes and some with a no just because He can?
Now lets say one son was actually not building a club house; but
was adding on to his dads house with his dads instruction, to
benefit them all, While the other son is trying to build himself
a get away spot, where he can get some personal privacy. and
same scenario one measures short and the other doesn't brace
properly. But the son who is adding on to the dads house is
given more wood to continue to complete his project. That would
be just and fair. No? It is not simply for selfish gain rather
to benefit the family as a whole. He is working with the dad for
a common purpose.
I give the last scenario to say I do believe that God will act
in this world. He will answer prayer, He can perform miracles.
But not because we want it to happen but because He needs us to
make it happen, to continue doing the will that he no longer can
do since He stepped back and gave mankind free will. He sees
that we have submitted our will to His will and need some help,
a little push, of course God would be just and fair to help
those who are trying to help Him. No?
Maybe I am wrong with my thoughts, and ideas that God is not as
active in this world as people believe. I don't think we should
always feel that we have to depend on God to perform some
miraculous thing in our life in order for things to work. Nor do
I think anyone should think that God might or might not answer
your prayer in time of need in sickness or poverty simply
because He can. It is my opinion that a lot of people pray in
vain for things that God does not control and end up setting
themselves up for failure. Like Kerry has said, if we have the
wrong idea of God, how can we come to know Him, and Love Him
with all our heart?
Give me your feed back, what do you guys/gals think?
#Post#: 3708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: James Date: February 13, 2013, 1:10 pm
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Well just as you said it George, if we have the wrong idea of
God how can we come to know him.
It is therefore not of much help to you George to find out what
WE believe, since it is what YOU believe that is of paramount
importance to you, for "without faith it is impossible to please
him".
Take your eyes of what others are or are not setting themselves
up for and concentrate on your own walk with God, only then will
you find the path.
James
#Post#: 3709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Kerry Date: February 13, 2013, 5:02 pm
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The short answer is that God is not active Himself in this
world. God rested and continues to rest. God now acts in this
world only through His servants. What happens is often left
up to us to decide. God gave us the world and leaves it up to
us what to make of it. His plan will succeed, no matter what
we choose as individuals. We will keep fighting like children
until we sort things out. At the present time, I'd say God has
more faith in us succeeding than we have in Him. Is God's
faith in us justified? Not yet, but I think it will be someday
when we grow up.
Moses wrote that man (adam) is a tree of the field. I think you
can learn quite a lot from that, looking at how trees grow or
don't grow, and at how the human body works and grows. This may
be a long post because I think the question deserves a thorough
answer. I won't be able to get to everything in this one post.
Suppose mankind as a whole forms a body -- or more accurately is
meant to form a body. The final result is to be one body with
different body parts and organs. The first inference we can
draw is that differences are important, even critical, to the
operation of the whole.
At Babel, we see mankind in its early phase. The children of
Noah were very much the same and thinking the same way, working
for one thing. You could compare this to the stage of pregnancy
where the cells of the fertilized egg have multiplied to become
that ball of cells called the morula. All the cells are the
same. Each cell could become any part of the body since its
function has not yet been defined. When the morula becomes a
blastocyst, some cells' purposes have defined while the inner
mass of cells retain the ability to become anything -- we call
them fetal stem cells.
At Babel, I would say they were still at the morula phase. They
expressed this uniformity by building with bricks. Bricks are
uniform. They did not want to differentiate. It was defeating
the purpose of man since the plan requires different body parts
-- or different nations, tribes, tongues, etc. From the
beginning, this was the plan; and in Revelation we see that the
"redeemed" are from all the nations, tribes, and tongues.
The Jews call this phase the Era of Roots. Anyone could have
done what Abraham finally did. There was no prophecy that said
Abraham was "the one" through whom Messiah would come. The plan
did not specify that. Anyone at that time could have become the
ancestor of Messiah and taken on the role Abraham finall took.
At this point, anyone could have heard the Voice of God and
chosen to obey; and anyone could have prayed to God and obtained
the favor Abraham obtained. You could say that people then were
like the stem cells of the morula, with each cell being able to
become anything.
Once Abraham made his choice however, the situation changed. We
can say he was the first "fetal cell" to have its purpose
defined. We see Abraham being told to move and do certain
things, and he did those things -- putting him in the "right
position". It would be through Abraham that the rest of the
nations would be blessed.
After that, the other nations could not take on his role. He
had taken that position. They could pray to doomsday and not be
answered. They had had their chance and passed it up.
Is that fair? Can the children be affected so by their parents?
Well, in the Era of Roots, things were different. Each person
contained the souls of his offspring. This is how the cells of
the fetus grow -- the cell of the growing liver will become all
liver cells so the complete man has a complete liver in its
place.
So one by one, the various nations began to be defined. And at
this time, things were still fluid enough that if one "nation"
was wiped out, it could easily be replaced since there were
still other undefined "nations" without assigned roles. They
were like fetal stem cells, able to become anything.
Thus if Abraham had died without offspring, someone else could
have replaced him. Another "stem cell" could have become what
Abraham was. But we see he had several sons. The Divine Plan
usually has a back up. If Isaac had failed, I believe one of
Abraham's sons who went to the east could have taken over.
Isaac succeeded however and he is told that the nations would be
blessed in him.
Now let's get to where Abraham's prayer of intercession for
Sodom failed. I argue that the "cells" in Sodom were like a
birth defect in a fetus. If allowed to remain, they would have
crippled or killed the entire fetus. The way I'm imagining it
now is that Isaac was to become the head and Sodom was
developing into a malformed part of the wrong sort. For the
whole of humanity to achieve perfection under the head of Isaac,
the malformed Sodom needed to be cut out. For Isaac and his
seed to live, Sodom had to be dealt with. Thus we see angelic
action taken on both issues at the same time.
My guess is that Abraham's prayer to have a child is what doomed
Sodom. Both couldn't exist.
This posed another problem -- the "cells" of Sodom contained
critical elements needed by the rest of the body. If they were
wiped out entirely, a body part would be missing. So we see the
two daughters of Lot were saved and later both were brought back
into the body when Boaz married Ruth and Solomon married
Naamah.
--------------------------------------------
I believe our prayers can be answered if and only if what we
want does not conflict with what others want. We can sit and
imagine all day and all night what we want for ourselves; but if
we fail to realize that what we want for ourselves may be
harmful to others, we may be praying in vain.
I saw once where a woman asked people at a forum said her
daughter was unemployed and going for an interview. Would
everyone pray that she got the job? I didn't pray for that.
Why should her daughter get that job? Just because her mother
asked? What if someone else was better qualified for it?
Should we pray that the employer hires a lesser qualified person
for the job just to please the mother? What if her job
performance affected hundreds of other people? Even a "lowly"
job could affect hundreds or even thousands of people. Should
an employer hire someone to take phone calls if that person is
rude, unable to understand complaints and requests, and
forgetful? It could even ruin the business if the employer
hired enough people that weren't suited for their jobs. So how
could I know if her daughter should have that job? I would also
be praying for God to nullify the free will of the employer.
And what about the other people applying for it? What if they
were in a more desperate need of a job? I could be praying for
disaster for them if I prayed for the daughter of this woman to
get the job.
I could pray that the woman's daughter find the job where she
fit in with others, where she would do the most good for others
and find the most gratification in a job well done, or a job
where she learned other skills that led to better things.
I also saw another prayer request where a woman was asking
people to pray about her lost membership at some place. Her
mother had bought her a membership so she could go there to
exercise; she said she didn't feel well and canceled it. Now
she feels better, she said, and her mother won't buy her another
membership. Would people pray about it? I didn't pray for
that. Her mother's money is hers, and she is free to spend it as
she likes. Why should I pray against her mother's free will?
[quote]Lets say a dads sons said dad we want to have some
freedom, we want to build our own club house to get away. Dad
says well I will allow you both to do that and I will supply
what you need to do it; But you want the free will to do it your
way, not my way, alright I will allow it. So dad gives them both
all the wood and nails and tools they need to build there club
house, one measures wrong and falls short, he needs more wood.
The other builds it wrong and doesn't brace it up properly and
it falls, breaking several pieces of wood. Now what are they to
do? It will take a miracle to complete there club house without
any more wood. So they go to the dad at separate times and tell
him what happen and then they start to ask every day, Can I have
some more wood for my club house, and the other one asks. And
day after day they continue to ask for wood. Then one morning
the son who broke his wood goes outside and sees a stack of
wood. He doesn't know where it came from; but the other son has
no wood when he wakes up. Is that a fair just dad? Why would he
answer one request but choose not to answer the other? [/quote]
ROFL! They want "some freedom" and "independence" but they
expect their father to pay for it?
[quote]Now lets say one son was actually not building a club
house; but was adding on to his dads house with his dads
instruction, to benefit them all, While the other son is trying
to build himself a get away spot, where he can get some personal
privacy. and same scenario one measures short and the other
doesn't brace properly. But the son who is adding on to the dads
house is given more wood to continue to complete his project.
That would be just and fair. No? It is not simply for selfish
gain rather to benefit the family as a whole. He is working with
the dad for a common purpose.[/quote]
I'd say that is how it is. I'd also say the father should not
give the son more wood if he didn't change his way of building
things. Even if his motive was good, why give him more wood if
he persisted in saying, "But this is how I want to do it." If
he's either so stubborn or so stupid that he wants to repeat his
disasters, why bother giving him more wood? If his father can
show him good building techniques by showing him how the main
part of the house is built and still standing, the son can learn
from that.
Love is key. Let me change the scenario. I don't think of God
as a father who supplies everything we need in person, as if
only "I" matter. I think of God as acting in all things but
gone off somewhere where you can't make personal demands -- He
gave you everything you need already by giving you a family with
those things. So if you wanted to build a room onto the family
house, you may find a cousin had nails for you, an uncle gave
you wood, someone else gives you good advice about techniques,
and other relatives come help you build it the way you want
because they'd like to see you succeed. If you have good
relationships with them all, they can all help you.
People who are on bad terms with the cousin with nails may
complain about that and even say God refuses to give them nails;
but God did give them a way to get nails. It's not God's fault
if people argue with each other, and they can't get nails
because they don't love their cousin.
Would you, if you were God, give someone nails if he asked your
for them after he fought with his cousin who had nails to give
him if only they learned how to get along? I would not. I'd
refuse to give him the nails to encourage them to make peace
with each other.
Going back to the poor woman with her membership at the YMCA --
I wouldn't buy her another membership or pray for her to get
one. I bet she offended her mother by being ungrateful. I
think she owes her mother an apology; and I think she should
show her mother she wants to exercise by doing whatever
exercises she can at home. I don't see much hope for this woman
until she comes to terms with her relationship with her mother
and with everyone else around her. She can pray until she drops
dead; and I bet her prayers won't be answered unless she is
willing to start being grateful when people try to love her and
show her they care.
She was also asking people to pray against her mother's free
will. Like it or not, we all have free will and the right to
exercise it. We have the "right to be wrong" if we like. We do
not have the right to ask God to remove the right of others to
exercise their own free will. If other people are "wrong" in
our opinion, it's none of our business unless they're affecting
our freedom; but they don't owe us anything just because we want
it. Now if they are affecting our freedom, that's wrong, and we
can pray about that. If other people are "wrong," so what?
We're all wrong about many things; it's why we're here, to learn
what works and what doesn't. We can all be wrong until we see
we're wrong and what we're doing isn't working; and then we can
give up on that and try something else. So what if other
people are "wrong"? If they're not injuring other people by
depriving them of their freedom, it doesn't matter to me what
people do in one way. In another way, I wish they'd learn
faster that they're causing themselves misery; but my wishful
thinking isn't going to change them.
There is a way the servant of God can ask for great things and
be answered. The servant of God can even bring down governments
if he knows how to pray. The keys are love and respecting free
will. Should I go into how this can be done? The results can
be alarming if one is naive. When you pray for evil to be
eradicated, things often tend to get worse before they get
better. I don't know if I should go into this more.
#Post#: 3712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: George Date: February 13, 2013, 11:04 pm
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^ I see no reason to stop. Communication with God is an
important subject!
#Post#: 3715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Kerry Date: February 14, 2013, 10:43 am
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[quote]It is often said that everything that happens is Gods
will, He allows it therefor it is His will. We also often hear
about miracles. Someone was healed from a sickness, or someone
come across some funds in a time of need, there are all sorts of
things that happen that are credited to a miracle from God. I
personally am not convinced of either the concept that whatever
God allows is His will or that God performs miracles. [/quote]
Theologians talk about two types of will. Permissive will and
perfect will. Something just happened with my cats that may
illustrate this.
My cats tend to want to relate to me too much and not enough to
each other. That's my opinion, anyway. It could be because I
feed them and clean their litter boxes? Maybe it's because I'm
bigger than they are and they see me as a being to be feared?
At any rate, one cat has an eating problem. Mohini would eat and
eat and eat. She was getting fat, so I had to stop allowing her
to eat all she wanted; and that interfered with how I dealt with
the other cats. If I put down food for them so they could eat
all they wanted, they would nibble at it and then Mohini would
go gobble it up. This annoyed me because I didn't want the
other two cats to think they needed to ask for food. I'd rather
let them decide when they want to eat and how much; but it was
not to be. Mohini would eat it all and get obese and they still
would have empty bowls.
So when Mazel Tov was still upstairs all the time, I could feed
him there and watch what was going on. Then Mohini figured out
where that food was and started to try to sneak by and get it.
So since she was fat, I decided to put a food bowl on top of a
chest of drawers and a cat tower next to it so the other two
cats could jump up and get food whenever they wanted. That
worked for over a month at least. I would see her at times
lying on top of the cat tower but she never tried to jump up on
the chest of drawers.
Then one night, I heard a cat jumping up; and I don't know why I
got up to look but I did. It was Mohini gobbling their food.
Now what to do? I yelled at her and she jumped down and went
downstairs. You may not believe it; but I decided I needed to
do more than that. She was hiding downstairs; but I found her
and picked her up, yelled at her again and threw her on the
sofa. Then I went upstairs. In about an hour, she came
upstairs. I yelled at her again and she ran away. I didn't
feed her for hours. I felt bad about it but I didn't know what
else to do to get across.
Things are fairly back to normal now; but now I don't allow her
on the cat tower. The tragedy in this is that she isn't
considerate of the other cats and wants all their food. Even
when it's not healthy for her. It's an inconvenience for the
other cats and for me too.
What would please me and make my life easier would be if they
liked each other more and me less. But they're not puppets. I
accept their "flaws" and "permit" them a degree of latitude.
Over time, they will start getting along better. They already
have improved.
But things are not the way I would want them in a perfect world.
My "perfect will" is not being done. I'm operating on
permissive will.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Are there miracles? Not really. There are things people call
miracles; but there are causes behind them which follow laws,
spiritual laws. They only look like miracles to us because we
don't understand the laws -- the way an airplane flying looks
like a miracle to someone who doesn't understand the laws of
aerodynamics.
Most miracles are performed using two chakras -- the inner eye
and the base of the spine chakras. The base of the spine chakra
is where "heaven" meets "earth" -- at the "cross" of this chakra
with its four petals. Here is where spiritual energy enters the
physical universe and where also matter can be transmuted into
spiritual form. "Resurrection" for one thing depends on
harnessing the serpent energy at the base of the spine.
In most people, the serpent energy lies dormant for the most
part and is roused only during coition. A great deal of
spiritual energy can be expended in sexual activity; and the
truth is the same energy can be expended in other repetitive
actions which mean almost nothing like mountain climbing,
basketball, ballet, gambling, you name it. Pointless but
repetive acts. Women are often annoyed, you may notice, when
their husbands watch too much football and so on -- the wives
are right about that too. Energy which could be directed at
their wives is being directed into pointless activities. I'm
not saying there's no fun in these things; but as a rule,
they're repetitive and go nowhere.
There are different ways to harness the serpent energy. It can
be done during the act of coition -- and that can lead into
black magic if great care is not taken. It is also possible for
the male to indulge in the activity and please the partner but
not go for release. This method was used by the Chinese
Emperors. They had several wives and could please them all
since they never expended the energy unless they wanted to
procreate. This method also can be used to increase the life
span; and Taoists used this.
Of course, the Buddhists and Hindus also have their Tantric
practices which sometimes do not involve the act itself but has
the two meditating together. Most lamas have female partners
they meditate with as spiritual wives but without the physical
acts. I cannot tell you if that was an early Christian
practice; but Paul does talk about a "man having a virgin," and
perhaps that's what he meant.
The other chakra involved in miracles is the inner eye -- or
"single eye" as Jesus called it. This is where the spirit
visualizes from. we can project visualizations that are pure or
impure. It is not safe to practice magic or attempt to perform
miracles unless the inner eye is pure -- "in light" as Jesus put
it. The imagination projecting images "out there" should "see
no evil." This symbol is called the Eye of Horus or Eye of God.
When the Bible talks about the "eyes of God" going to and fro
on the earth, it is talking about the inner eyes of the saints.
What they see is what God sees. And what they "imagine" as
projections in space is very apt to be what will come to pass.
It is like a picture on a jigsaw puzzle box. The pieces will
fall into place according to the picture -- become true in the
world as they are in "heaven." "Thy kingdom come, thy will be
done, on earth as it in Heaven." Or a shorter phrase, "As
above, so below."
Put those two chakras together, and you get miracles or "magic."
It's interesting to study the lives of actors and actresses in
adult movies -- or indeed any of our idols. There is a reason so
many of them die young or go nutty. It's because so many people
are visualizing them while getting their rocks off -- and that
energy goes out into the world and hits them. I would say one of
the major reasons homosexuality can be dangerous is that male
sexual energy is directed at the physical body of another male.
Paul hints at it, saying they receive the results in their
bodies. I'd say so too. Lesbians seem different. Some of them
seem to age faster because they are not getting the male energy
-- chi.
But to sum that up, I doubt anyone can do many miracles of much
importance unless the serpent energy is harnessed and not
expended on repetitive activities. Another thing of interest is
that the person who begins to raise the serpent energy may find
others start finding him or her more charming. This is raising
the energy enough that it affects the solar plexus chakra,
resulting in "charisma." Marily Monroe couldn't do miracles
that I know of; but she could turn the charisma off and on at
will.
When she was studying theatre in New York because she wanted to
become a more serious actress than the idol she was in movies,
she was walking down the street one day with a friend who
noticed that no one seemed to recognize Monroe. She asked why.
Monroe said, "I don't have Marilyn turned on." She told her
friend to watch. She turned Marilyn on; and suddenly people on
the street were noticing her.
I observed something similar when I went to hear a speech by an
OT VIII (that's a category Scientology uses for such things).
During the speech, she seemed to glow -- surrounded by light --
and kept people's attention. After the speech, my friend went
up to talk to her, and I went along. She no longer had that
glow. She wasn't putting it up anymore. I could see it; and my
friend said I was right.
Back to religion now. Many ministers have charisma. Yes, they
do. The ladies (and some men too) find them attractive. They
seem surrounded at time with an aura of some kind. This can be
abused and often is. The ability to be charming and get people
to like you is meant to be used for good; but the sad truth is
it can be used to get people into bed. I think that's the
reason we see so many scandals in churches.
When I started to find my "powers" rising as a young man when I
started doing some exercises with Scientology, I found I could
charm people easily. Too easily. People I didn't know wanted to
talk to me about nothing. I had nothing real to give them. Why
should I revel in the fact that I could get them to like me? I
wanted to turn it off and I did. For someone who wants to do
good, the ability to charm others has its advantages.
As a rule, it's impossible for people to use charisma on me to
influence me. The politicians people say have charisma generally
leave me cold. Ministers who have charisma do nothing for me.
It's "glamor" to me -- not real -- I use the word "glamor" in
the old fashioned medieval sense, as a magical spell. I think
the serpent can make almost anything look good if he tries.
That being said, note that Jesus compared himself to a serpent
-- on a pole raised up -- and said he would draw people to him.
It is magic of a sort -- and any power or ability can be used
for good or for evil. I do not want to speculate about Jesus'
love life; but I will say I think that he had discipline in the
area. Other than that, I could not really say -- nor is my
opinion of much value.
Here is another note of caution. There are people who learn how
to raise the serpent energy or kundalini by yoga. Some can do
it without harm; but if the heart is impure, it can be dangerous
and lead to catastrophe with the person falling into black magic
without consciously knowing. There are people who fail to
purify the heart first; and their goal is to escape the
limitations imposed on them by having physical bodies so they
can be free to do as they please. I agree with L. Ron Hubbard
on that -- practicing yoga can glue someone even more to his
body. The only safe course is to purify the heart first by
using the Law of Love to find errors and fix them. The chakras
below the heart are at an unconscious level and can't be
accessed by the conscious mind directly. Focusing on them can
stir up who knows what -- and the person can be gobbled up more
or less. In most people, the ability to perform miracles is
there but turned off by the heart chakra -- the conscience knows
it could abuse those abilities if the mind became aware of them,
so the heart turns them off. Black magic is circumventing the
conscience of the heart; but it works only for a short while. In
the end, the nature of the conscience makes sure that things get
short-circuited again. The conscience in some people drives
them to suicide even to stop the person from defiling the image
and likeness of God in the person. It is not "God out there"
demanding justice. It is the "God in us" that wants justice and
if that means self-destruction, so be it. Some people even send
themselves to hell if that's what they think they deserve,
having wished it on others.
Miracles involve the action of the "God nature in a person"
being able to connect with "God out there" in other forces and
other people. Thus Jesus told some people who had faith that
their faith healed them. That was true too. Yet in one place,
we are told he couldn't do many things because of people's
unbelief. In a way, this is a little similar to how my cats
and I behave.
That reminds me of a "spell" I did once when I used to practice
magic as a non-Christian. A woman wanted something to happen,
so I made this thing and told her it was like a voodoo doll or
something. But I did an experiment -- I did absolutely nothing.
I told her to hang it up where she could see it every day.
She did. Did it work? Yes, it did. It was her faith in it
that did it. I really had done nothing. The power of
suggestion. So that told me something. If I wanted to test
things I did in the future, I couldn't let people know what I
was trying to do -- because their belief or unbelief could
affect the outcome. LOL @ the witch doctors who frighten people
by telling them they're putting a hex on them! A lot of that is
pure suggestion.
#Post#: 3724--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Runner Date: February 15, 2013, 4:07 pm
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:)Myself, I believe God has only one will.
Enjoyed the cat illustration. 8)
#Post#: 3725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Kerry Date: February 15, 2013, 9:04 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=394.msg3724#msg3724
date=1360966059]
:)Myself, I believe God has only one will.
Enjoyed the cat illustration. 8)
[/quote]It is said that God is not willing that any should
perish. Elsewhere it says where there is no vision, the people
perish. How can that be? Can anything happen that lies outside
of God's Will? God's perfect Will is that none will perish;
and eventually things must be that way; but in the meantime,
God's Will seems to be to allow us some freedom. Part of His
Perfect Will is allowing us freedom -- and that can be called
the permissive will -- but I'd say you are right, it is part of
His Perfect Will although it may look different to us at times.
#Post#: 3727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Kerry Date: February 15, 2013, 10:13 pm
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How we read the Bible depends sometimes on our definition of
God. If we think of God one way, we can interpret it that way.
If we have a different view, we can interpret it another. Some
passages seem obscure on purpose to allow us to make that
choice. Consider this one:
Isaiah 45:11
KJV Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the
work of my hands command ye me.
NIV “This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
In Hebrew, the verbs could be in the imperative with God telling
people to ask Him questions and then command Him. Or they
could be in the interrogative meant with irony -- do you dare
ask questions, do you dare give me orders?
The same problem is found in the Book of Job when one of Job's
friends is talking. We know his friends said some things that
are condemned later; so when Eliphaz is talking, how do we know
if what he says is true?
Job 22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be
established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.
Is it possible for a man to decree a thing and have God
establish it? Eliphaz thought so, and Isaiah might be saying
it's possible.
I think it is possible, but one must follow Isaiah's formula.
First we must ask Heaven about the things to come concerning His
sons. We are not free to ask for things which will interfere
with the plans of others, especially with those under the
protection of Heaven, the elect. We do not live in a world
where only "God and me" matter.
Where Heaven already has firm plans, it's pointless to pray for
something which goes against them. There might be some wiggle
room, but not always. Rachel may have wished her son Joseph was
the first born; but after her sister already had children, it
would have been pointless for Rachel to pray to give birth to
the first born. If Leah hadn't had children already, Rachel
could have prayed for that and possibly gotten the prayer
answered. But we don't know, do we? Laban had other plans, and
Heaven had to take them into account too. God isn't going to
deprive others of their free will to give us what we want.
So one step is to ask Heaven about things. What is possible and
what isn't? This also means we must open our minds to the
reality on earth, what others want (including sinners) and what
plans Heaven has made with the elect.
Think about this. Heaven would like to see something happen but
needs a person on earth to pray for it. Bands of angels could
be sent, if only someone asked. Indeed, there are bands of
angels who are often disappointed by not having much to do since
so few people ask.
God gave dominion of the earth to man, and that's the way it is.
It is up to us whether we summon the angels or the forces of
darkness; but Heaven never supports someone who wants to break
the Law of Free Will by depriving others of their freedom.
It's a waste of time to pray "against" sinners. They have the
right to sin if that's what they want to do. "Resist not
evil."
The situation is different however if an evil person is
violating the free will of someone else, making him a victim.
It is allowed if no one complains to Heaven although it's a
violation of the Law of Free Will. If two sinners want to
quarrel and interfere with each other's freedom, that's fine.
That's what they want to do. Both are guilty, Heaven will not
judge between them. Yes, it's a nasty business; but if people
want to do it, they're entitled.
What they are not entitled to do is impose their will on
innocent people who want to lead peaceful lives, minding their
own business. I can pray about that and get results. I can
even decree it and it will happen. If Heaven shows someone what
to pray for, that person can pray and command Heaven. God likes
to be told what to do, the angels adore being helpful. The
greatest forces in the universe will come to the aid of the
person who asks first of Heaven how to pray and then asks
accordingly. It is possible to command God.
God likes it in fact. Back to my cats. Milhaus, when he was
with me, was extraordinary. One day he was acting funny and I
couldn't tell what he wanted. Finally he sat down next to the
water bowl. I saw it was empty. All that fussing, and I didn't
know what he wanted. So I told him, "Oh Milhaus, next time,
tell me when the bowl is empty." He did too. And I was his
obedient servant. He could command me. I liked it too. I
wanted him to know he could get results from me. The situation
was different with food -- he also ate too much. What he wanted
wasn't good for him, so he couldn't order me about. Shifting
back to how Heaven deals with us:
Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a
father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he
for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your
children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy
Spirit to them that ask him?
Jeremiah had great authority on earth:
Jeremiah 1:9 Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my
mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in
thy mouth.
10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the
kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to
throw down, to build, and to plant.
Prophecies are not predictions. They are decrees of God's
servants commanding the forces of Heaven.
It is a rule, a law, that if you ask for something good from
Heaven and it doesn't interfere with the free will of others,
you will get it. It is another rule that if you summon a
particular angel or a saint, you will get results sooner or
later if your motives are right. It may require persistence,
you may have to demonstrate sincerity and trustworthiness; but
they have no choice in the matter just as I have no choice when
my cats ask for water. I am bound by my own free will to
provide for them; and so too is Heaven bound by its desire and
will to benefit us.
The trick is learning what is good for us and what isn't, what
interferes with others and what doesn't. I didn't meet the man
myself, but a friend of mine met a Wiccan man who thought it was
fine to go around healing people. He had obtained the power to
heal others -- a good thing. But then he healed the wrong
person. I think he violated free will, and he got the diabetes
he stole from that person. He would have been wise to ask
people, "Do you want to be healed" before thrusting himself on
them. Jesus at times did that, you know, respecting the free
will of others and getting their permission before healing them.
If we pray for something and don't get it, we can inquire of
Heaven what is going on. What we see as evil problems may
actually be there to teach us something about life. Were God to
remove them, we couldn't learn. What we ask for may violate
the free will of others -- and that is not loving our neighbors
as ourselves. It always comes back to love, one way or
another.
#Post#: 3731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Runner Date: February 15, 2013, 11:20 pm
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[quote]If we pray for something and don't get it, we can inquire
of Heaven what is going on. What we see as evil problems may
actually be there to teach us something about life. Were God to
remove them, we couldn't learn. What we ask for may violate
the free will of others -- and that is not loving our neighbors
as ourselves.
It always comes back to love, one way or another.
[/quote]
Amen to that.
I am not sure God is very active or doing much at all "in the
world"today.
I have not seen a wave since the last big one between 1948 -
1970...it came , it crested, it broke. We were blessed to be
caught it the decade after it's break.
I believe God is "doing things" within His people...hidden. When
the time is ripe He will call them forth to help and comfort the
world. It is not yet time for "Joseph" to rise.
My two cents.
#Post#: 3733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God active in the world today?
By: Kerry Date: February 15, 2013, 11:50 pm
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^ Yes, there seems to be periods of quiet preparation when it
looks as if God is not around. Sometimes the "strong man"
doesn't guard his palace as well as he could if he saw things
coming. Why warn the opposition of what is coming?
Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and
spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and
then he will spoil his house.
Luke 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods
are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome
him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and
divideth his spoils.
Was Herod prepared adequately? I'd say not. He may have
thought he was; but he was caught off guard when the wise men
showed up; and he didn't know what to do, not really. He failed
to take action that would have killed Jesus. So he failed. If
he had had more warning, perhaps his scheme would have
succeeded.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day
of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden
destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with
child; and they shall not escape.
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