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#Post#: 3516--------------------------------------------------
Is God Omniscient?
By: Kerry Date: January 27, 2013, 6:55 am
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You hear people talking frequently about the omniscience of God.
Why do they say that? How could they know? Are they like a
teacher who knows his material and then tests his students to
grade them? I would hesitate to say God knows everything
because I'd be pretending to know it too.
Me? I'm content to trust the Bible which says God knows the
beginning and the end. I think good planning always involves a
good ending. But everything? Why does the Bible say then God
forgets some things?
I'm not even sure the human way of looking at "time" is real.
Certainly the past and future don't really exist except in our
imaginations -- so what is there to know about them? The only
thing about the future that can be known, it seems to me, is
when there is a planned state -- and someone can make it come
into being. When the Bible says God knows the end, I believe
He can make it happen that way.
#Post#: 3519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God Omniscient?
By: George Date: January 27, 2013, 9:15 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=361.msg3516#msg3516
date=1359291332]
You hear people talking frequently about the omniscience of God.
Why do they say that? How could they know? Are they like a
teacher who knows his material and then tests his students to
grade them? I would hesitate to say God knows everything
because I'd be pretending to know it too.
Me? I'm content to trust the Bible which says God knows the
beginning and the end. I think good planning always involves a
good ending. But everything?
[/quote]
Could it be that because we are told that God created the
Heavens and the earth, and made all things within them, that God
knows all things? Could it be that people confuse knowing all
things with know all actions? While I think it might be a
contradiction of free will to think that God knows our every
move before we do it, that would be a type of fortune knowledge.
Which people tend to confuse with knowing all things
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=361.msg3516#msg3516
date=1359291332]
Why does the Bible say then God forgets some things?
[/quote]
It is to my knowledge that the only thing that the bible says
God forgets is iniquity. That is not to say he never knew about
it. He knew it happen; but when one repents God being a merciful
God says He will forget that those things ever happen. As you
have mentioned before, In order to forgive one must forget,
which is more of a figure of speech than a realistic action.
While one may never be able to actually forget a wrong doing
that was done to them, they are said to forget it if they are
able to get past it, never bring it up, never allow it to affect
us again, never hold it against the person guilty of causing the
harm that was done. Truly forgive the accused of there wrong
doings.
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=361.msg3516#msg3516
date=1359291332]
I'm not even sure the human way of looking at "time" is real.
Certainly the past and future don't really exist except in our
imaginations
[/quote]
I can agree that the future is only in our imagination, we
imagine what we want in the future or we hope for things in the
future; but the past did exist. It existed and is now a memory,
history. Although some can imagine about the past, when there is
no evidence to support or prove any event that one imagines from
the past. There is certainly much about the past that is fact.
Therefor we don't imagine these things, they actually happened.
My son was born Dec. 23, 1995 that was a past event. A very real
past event that was not just imagined, it actually took place
and I now have a 17 yr old son to prove that it actually happen.
It is more than just an imagination.
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=361.msg3516#msg3516
date=1359291332]
-- so what is there to know about them?
[/quote]
All things, the science of all things, how things were made, how
things work,He knows all that exists known and unknown to man.
#Post#: 3523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is God Omniscient?
By: Kerry Date: January 27, 2013, 10:34 am
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=361.msg3519#msg3519
date=1359299716]Could it be that because we are told that God
created the Heavens and the earth, and made all things within
them, that God knows all things? Could it be that people confuse
knowing all things with know all actions?[/quote]
The example of a jig-saw puzzle comes to my mind again. The
manufacturer knows how he made it; and he can predict too how it
look when you finish putting it together -- but does that mean
he knows your every move? Which pieces you'll put together
first?
[quote]While I think it might be a contradiction of free will to
think that God knows our every move before we do it, that would
be a type of fortune knowledge. Which people tend to confuse
with knowing all things[/quote]
I look at the universe the way I look at a jig-saw puzzle. God
can know the beginning and the end -- and what we do won't
affect the outcome. I don't believe God necessarily knows our
decisions before we make them. Some events are known to God
because He knows He can make them happen by working through His
servants who will agree to do certain things. However things
are still fluid.
Why did Jesus tell the Gentile woman he was sent to Israel and
not to her. Then he changed his mind. I think that the Gentile
woman suprised Heaven; and then Jesus discovered he could help
her because she was willing.
[quote]It is to my knowledge that the only thing that the bible
says God forgets is iniquity. That is not to say he never knew
about it. [/quote]
I think it depends on your definition of "God." I see the
intercession of the Spirit as an emanation of God which sees
evil and then acts to correct it; but God Himself does not even
see inquity. The purest aspect of the Divine cannot even
imagine evil.
Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and
canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them
that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked
devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
Were anything impure to be in the Presence, it would be consumed
-- annihilated. Even the saints must be clad in white. Not one
spot.
[quote]He knew it happen; but when one repents God being a
merciful God says He will forget that those things ever happen.
As you have mentioned before, In order to forgive one must
forget, which is more of a figure of speech than a realistic
action. While one may never be able to actually forget a wrong
doing that was done to them, they are said to forget it if they
are able to get past it, never bring it up, never allow it to
affect us again, never hold it against the person guilty of
causing the harm that was done. Truly forgive the accused of
there wrong doings.[/quote]
This is a complicated issue. But suppose I steal money from you
and cause you grief. Suppose you can pay the rent and get
evicted. If I ask God to forgive me, how can He forget about it
if it's still in your mind? He would still be aware of it if
He's aware of what you think.
Now suppose I ask you to forgive me and you say you do. If
you're still without a place to live, can you forget it? I doubt
that. Now if I went to your landlord, paid him the back rent
and told him it was my fault and begged him to let you go back,
that would some progress; but you still might wonder about me.
Over time, however, if you came to trust me more, you'd start
thinking about it less and less. Eventually you'd almost never
think about it because you'd know that was the "old me." That's
not how I am now. Strange as it sounds, there are some things I
have forgotten 99%. I can remember something went wrong, but I
can't remember what it was; and I am not interested in
remembering. I ask myself, "Could I remember that if I really
tried?" I think maybe I could -- maybe -- but I'd rather not.
I trust those people not to do those things again -- I believe
100% they changed for the better. So why think about it? If
they're never going to do them again, I'd be nuts to be thinking
about things that don't matter -- and which are no longer true.
So what if someone was a thief in the past? He doesn't have to
be a thief forever.
I believe complete loss of memory of bad things is possible when
everyone involved has repented and been forgiven.
I wonder sometimes how people think about Heaven. Do they think
they'll be remembering all their own sins eternally?
Remembering everyone else's sins too? I hope not.
[quote]I can agree that the future is only in our imagination,
we imagine what we want in the future or we hope for things in
the future; but the past did exist.[/quote]It "did exist" but it
doesn't exist now. The value of memories is to teach us cause
and effect, I think. If you want to make things happen, what
works?
[quote]It existed and is now a memory, history. Although some
can imagine about the past, when there is no evidence to support
or prove any event that one imagines from the past. There is
certainly much about the past that is fact. Therefor we don't
imagine these things, they actually happened. My son was born
Dec. 23, 1995 that was a past event. A very real past event that
was not just imagined, it actually took place and I now have a
17 yr old son to prove that it actually happen. It is more than
just an imagination. [/quote]
Right now, it exists only in the imagination so far as I can
see. It's not real now. It's certainly not 1995 now.
Time exists in our minds. We can sit and imagine the past or
the future. We can move in time -- using the mind. Spirits can
move back and forth in time. Indeed, people can become "trapped
in time," with some people pretending to live in the past while
others seem to live in the future. I'd say neither is healthy
since the person is not here now.
[quote]All things, the science of all things, how things were
made, how things work,He knows all that exists known and unknown
to man.[/quote]
So how long did God know He was going to create the universe
before He set about and did it? What was He doing for all
eternity before creating it? Just being aware of it all, done
to the last detail?
Honestly, I think being omniscient would be intolerably boring.
It would be like having to watch the same movie over and over
again when you knew everything that was going to happen or like
listening to the same lesson in school again and again although
you already knew it. I think maybe God made people with free
will to make things interesting for Himself. That's what I'd
do. God Himself would start to feel trapped, wouldn't He, just
being a part of things which had to be a certain way.
No, I think omniscience is something people imagine would be
nice to have themselves; but I think they'd be miserable if they
had it.
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