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#Post#: 3294--------------------------------------------------
HIV/AIDS
By: George Date: January 15, 2013, 9:36 am
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I have heard many many times where religious people in place of
power, such as preachers, evangelists, and missionaries say that
HIV/Aids is a curse from God for homosexuality. Then when one
says "well what about all the heterosexuals who have contracted
HIV/Aids Then they say well it was a curse from God because of
all the promiscuity going on in the world today. Then when asked
"what about all the babies born with HIV/Aids and the people who
have contracted it through blood transfusions and things of that
nature, They say well that's the consequence of the actions of
the immoral homosexuals and promiscuous heterosexuals.
Personally I don't believe that God acts in this fashion.
Recklessly cursing the planet so that even the innocent are
often affected. People will then say to me, you must not have
read the bible, in the bible God curses evil people all the
time, which result in innocent children also being affected.
have you read the story about Sodom and Gommorah? Noah's ark?
The plagues that God sent to the Pharaoh? etc. etc.
To me it is as if people forget that God is Love! Something
Kerry has said to me numerous times, If you can't see love in an
action it cant be of God.
My opinion of HIV/Aids is that it is a science experiment gone
hay wire! I believe that it is a man made disease originally
made as a way to control global population. Pure evil, the acts
of evil men! How then has this evil been so often credited to
the action of the True God who is Love?
What are your opinions on this matter?
#Post#: 3295--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: Kerry Date: January 15, 2013, 11:07 am
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We have two interesting passages in the Bible that appear
irreconciliable at first.
1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and
provoked David to number Israel.
2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled
against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go,
number Israel and Judah.
However if we think of Satan as the embodiment of the wrath the
LORD, then it makes some sense. We also see Satan portrayed as
the servant of God in some places.
What then of this:
Exodus 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that
the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
Should we believe that the Lord only tried to kill Moses and
failed? I don't think we should be naive. The Jewish Sages
say this was the demon Asmodeus who spotted a weakness in things
and was trying to exploit it.
We also read of people who say they saw angels and then say they
saw God; but we read too that no man can see God and live! How
the Bible uses the word "God" varies from place to place. Thus
the Sages also say that it was Esau's Guardian Angel that
wrestled with Jacob.
We see a similar situation in Tibetan Buddhism which has the
benevolent and the wrathful deities. They are all part of the
same Buddha Nature, the lamas say; and if you see a wrathful
deity, don't be afraid. It's part of your awareness.
There are weaknesses and flaws in man's spiritual nature --
spiritual sins. Yet the spirit of man is part of God in one way
and not in another. We should not believe that God up in Heaven
decided to wreck the earth at the time of the Flood of Noah. I
say we should believe that dominion of the earth had been given
to mankind; and it was mankind's fallen spiritual nature which
brought the flood about. That spiritual nature is part of God.
Thus you can say God did it, or you could say man did it. You
could also say man as the lawful representative of God on earth
did it, and thus God is responsible.
When Paul writes as he does, I don't necessarily think he means
what some people may think. It involves our own spiritual
natures with their sins.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high
places.
If this is understood, you don't have to be a prophet to see why
the following has to be true:
Mark 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom
against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers
places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the
beginnings of sorrows.
This is not God doing anything to us. It's us, the sons of God,
doing it to ourselves. We are like children who don't know our
own power.
I don't see AIDS as a consciously-invented disease. I see it as
being summoned by dark spiritual forces in man. It is a failure
of mankind to exercise dominion over animal life in a way that
produces harmony.
But in a way, I'd say God o is responsible since I see Him
patiently waiting for us to grow up spiritually and realize we
aren't acting in loving ways towards each other.
#Post#: 3300--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: Runner Date: January 15, 2013, 12:00 pm
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Kerry you used two of my favorite scriptures :D ( 1 Chron & 1
Sam)
George agree I don't think for one moment that God "sent" Aids.
Annoyingly I can't find it...but there is a scripture OT that
says something like " A man's own ways/actions shall judge him."
Or " His backsliding shall correct him.." I used to know it but
have forgotten.
Plus, having heavy leanings toward conspiracy theories...I am
not convinced that man did not introduce this. It could well
have been made in a lab, with an antidote which is being with
held. I would put nothing passed The One Worlders.
It for sure isn't God sending a plague in judgement as some
evangelists would have us believe...God's Time Of Judgement has
not yet come.
#Post#: 3302--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: guest6 Date: January 15, 2013, 12:32 pm
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George, I found a video I thought you might be interested in
watching.
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZs1V8mpcoY
#Post#: 3306--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: Runner Date: January 15, 2013, 12:42 pm
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I do remember seeing that one Cathey....you are clever in
digging this out! :)
(I don't believe that it was any "accident".)
#Post#: 3307--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: George Date: January 15, 2013, 12:44 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=336.msg3295#msg3295
date=1358269654]
But in a way, I'd say God o is responsible since I see Him
patiently waiting for us to grow up spiritually and realize we
aren't acting in loving ways towards each other.
[/quote]
To me that would seem to really blur the line between God allows
and God is responsible for. If I think well Hitler killed all
those Jews; but God allowed him to therefor God is ultimately
responsible, then Hitler can't be held responsible for what he
did. Or a priest that is sodomizing the little choir boys, well
God allowed him to do that therefor God is ultimately
responsible? Maybe I am misunderstanding; but this thought
process doesn't seem correct to me. Just as in the book of Job
God allowed Satan to touch Job, So did God bring the suffering
on Job? Is everything we allow Satan to do to us ultimately
allowing God to do these things to us? If there is no evil in
God how can evil then be credited to God? God may have created
evil; but does that make evil a part of God?
[center]Isaiah 45:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the Lord do all these things.[/center]
Is all of Gods creation an extension of what God ultimately is?
God is Love, God is fear, God is suffering, God is evil?
I have put a lot of thought into the story of Job, We see that
God tells Satan that He wont take his blessing from Job, being
the all merciful and all loving God I think this would go
against His very nature. God does allow Satan to touch Job I
think only because God knew that Job wouldn't fail. Like
you(Kerry) have told me before, God will not allow us to be
tested unless He knows we will pass the test. If Job would have
failed I wonder if God would have ever brought Job up to Satan?
When it is said that Job demanded God to appear to him so that
Job could plead his case, we read that God does appear to Job in
a whirlwind, Is this because Job demanded it? No! God cannot be
demanded to do anything; but in His mercy he does appear, then
Job asks God why are these things happening to him. Did God give
him an answer? No. God answers to no one! God sets Job straight
and tells Job that he is no one to question God. There is a
lesson to be learned here I think, that no matter what hardships
we go threw, we should never question God. Nor should we think
that God is responsible for our suffering. Then the story ends
by showing just how Merciful and Loving God is when he allows
repentance. Even though he erred in his way by questioning the
Almighty, God is understanding and just, and accepts Job's
repentance once he is shown how he erred, and then He blessed
Job.
I went so off topic it is ridiculous, I started going and
couldn't stop.
Edit. reading over my reply I realize It says God makes peace
and creates evil in the present tents not past. I will wait for
your reply on this though
#Post#: 3309--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: Runner Date: January 15, 2013, 12:49 pm
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[quote]quote George...
To me that would seem to really blur the line between God allows
and God is responsible for. If I think well Hitler killed all
those Jews; but God allowed him to therefor God is ultimately
responsible, then Hitler can't be held responsible for what he
did.[/quote]
I like that...good point!
#Post#: 3310--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: guest6 Date: January 15, 2013, 12:52 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=336.msg3306#msg3306
date=1358275322]
I do remember seeing that one Cathey....you are clever in
digging this out! :)
(I don't believe that it was any "accident".)
[/quote]
It is definitely one of the best videos I've seen on this
subject. Actually it's just a matter of entering the right words
into the search engine to find something.
#Post#: 3311--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: Kerry Date: January 15, 2013, 1:15 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=336.msg3307#msg3307
date=1358275442]
To me that would seem to really blur the line between God allows
and God is responsible for. If I think well Hitler killed all
those Jews; but God allowed him to therefor God is ultimately
responsible, then Hitler can't be held responsible for what he
did. [/quote]
Why can't Hitler be held accountable? As for the Jews? I
agree with the Hassidic Jew who told me that was allowed because
of the sins of the Jews. I don't say that lightly since one of
my dearest friends lost most of her family in the Holocaust.
There were no innocent people involved. If people are wicked
and want to kill each other, God permits it. As a rule -- a
general rule -- there is no permanent damage. In Hitler's case,
I believe he is out of existence. That is a tragedy, but a
necessary tragedy.
[quote]Or a priest that is sodomizing the little choir boys,
well God allowed him to do that therefor God is ultimately
responsible? Maybe I am misunderstanding; but this thought
process doesn't seem correct to me. [/quote]Again, I don't see
the little choir boys as completely innocent. Those situations
can be complicated. There are probably different things going
on; but I don't see the boys as innocent. I also don't see
their parents as innocent. But I see things being worked out.
Here are two more passages which seem to conflict. The first
says God does not punish the children for the sins of their
fathers. I'm sure that is true. But the second seems to say
something else.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall
not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father
bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous
shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be
upon him.
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity
and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the
guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children,
and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the
fourth generation.
Can you come up with an explanation? Why was Israel told if
they sinned, their children would be punished?
Deuteronomy 28:32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto
another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing
for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine
hand.
They were even told they would eat their own children!
28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh
of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath
given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine
enemies shall distress thee:
How can that be if God is both just and loving?
Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into
captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with
the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
The children who get AIDS? There is a purpose in it. There is
no injustice in the universe. For example, there is a
connection between the making of bricks at Babel and the making
of bricks in Egypt. The bondage in Egypt served a purpose.
#Post#: 3312--------------------------------------------------
Re: HIV/AIDS
By: Kerry Date: January 15, 2013, 1:26 pm
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[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=336.msg3302#msg3302
date=1358274777]
George, I found a video I thought you might be interested in
watching. [/quote]
Polio is on the rise again in Pakistan and Nigeria and other
places because people believe that the polio vaccine causes
AIDS. Wikpedia has an article about this theory.
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPV_AIDS_hypothesis
By 2003, cases of poliomyelitis had been reduced to just a small
number in isolated regions of West Africa, with sporadic cases
elsewhere. However, the disease has since resurged in Nigeria
and in several other nations of Africa, which epidemiologists
trace to refusals by certain local populations to allow their
children to be administered the Sabin oral vaccine. The
expressed concerns of local populations often relate to fears
that the vaccine might induce sterility, and it seems that
debate over the OPV-AIDS hypothesis has fueled additional fears.
Since 2003, these fears have spread among some in the Muslim
community, with Datti Ahmed, of the Supreme Council for Sharia
in Nigeria stating that:
“We believe that modern-day Hitlers have deliberately
adulterated the oral polio vaccines with anti-fertility drugs
and viruses which are known to cause HIV and AIDS.”
Polio has also resurged in areas of Pakistan, India and
Bangladesh.
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