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#Post#: 2720--------------------------------------------------
Question 2
By: laterunner Date: December 19, 2012, 10:13 am
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Were Adam's children born'' in sin ''or born before he 'fell'??
:-\
Did they have children before or after they realised they were
human & fallen??
#Post#: 2973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: laterunner Date: December 31, 2012, 1:52 pm
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Surely this is one in English & not a Chiglish translation.
Happy New year anyway. ;D 8) ::) :-* ;)
#Post#: 2976--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: Amadeus Date: December 31, 2012, 2:05 pm
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[font=courier]I would say that they were born dead, because
their natural parents were dead. Life is in the Holy Spirit, or
from the Holy Spirit, or of the Holy Spirit.
Is death sin?[/font]
#Post#: 2978--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: laterunner Date: December 31, 2012, 2:45 pm
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Agreed we live in a dead world but belong to one which is 'Life'
because the Holy Spirit indwells us.
Therefore they were dead if born after their parent fell??
maybe?
#Post#: 2980--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: Kerry Date: December 31, 2012, 4:52 pm
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[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=288.msg2976#msg2976
date=1356984313]
[font=courier]I would say that they were born dead, because
their natural parents were dead. Life is in the Holy Spirit, or
from the Holy Spirit, or of the Holy Spirit.
Is death sin?[/font]
[/quote]I would say yes that death and sin go together. Sin is
not some thing, nothing concrete. Sin is a condition or state
of being. I was thinking of this the other day. It is like
clean and dirty. Being dirty is not a thing. Being dirty is a
condition. Thus sin is like dirt. You could say sin is like
an engine that isn't working right. If you abuse an engine,
then it doesn't work right. If we abuse our bodies, we stain
them and stain our souls too. Thus "sin" lives right in the
body, as a condition or state.
Thus it is written that Jesus Christ must come in the flesh.
The Spirit of Christ must dwell in us so fully that all stains
are erased. We can repent of our own sins, that's for sure;
but how can we repent of the sin which causes death that dwells
in the flesh? I don't think we can -- but we can rely on the
Spirit to take care of it.
I don't think John was talking about Jesus coming in the flesh
2000 years ago when he wrote what he did. It is not in the past
tense anyway. It's in the present tense. We can have Jesus
Christ come here and now in the flesh, so fully that the death
and sin in the flesh is defeated. I believe this can happen
now. Until it happens, we still have something of the
antichrist about us -- either a little or a lot -- but even the
tiniest speck of yeast is enough to leaven the whole loaf.
Death is not defeated until every bit of sin is defeated even
within the flesh -- even the sin inherited from Adam.
#Post#: 2981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: Kerry Date: December 31, 2012, 5:01 pm
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[quote author=laterunner link=topic=288.msg2720#msg2720
date=1355933625]
Were Adam's children born'' in sin ''or born before he 'fell'??
:-\
Did they have children before or after they realised they were
human & fallen??
[/quote]Cain was born, I would say, inheriting death from his
parents; but the reason he was born was so this could be
changed. Eve said she got a child from the LORD; and the
Jewish Sages say that the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis as
marrying the daughters of men were the descendants of Cain.
The protection of God over Cain shows how God wished for Cain
and his descendants to find mercy and forgiveness. Some also
say that Noah married Naamah, the sister of Tubalcain and some
also say that Ham married a woman who was descended from Cain.
I would say Cain's error was in giving way to "sin and death"
when it rose up in him, allowing the "beast within" to master
his good judgment instead of obeying his conscience and
defeating the beast when it rose up in anger. If he had
mastered it instead of giving in to it, history would been
different. Things could have been repaired much more easily;
but giving in to it made things worse.
#Post#: 2985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: Runner Date: December 31, 2012, 6:35 pm
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It seems that we agree then...the children were born after the
fall...just as we were! Cain and Able chose which god/God they
were going to follow.
#Post#: 2995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question 2
By: Amadeus Date: December 31, 2012, 10:42 pm
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[quote]Kerry: I would say yes that death and sin go together.
Sin is not some thing, nothing concrete. Sin is a condition or
state of being. I was thinking of this the other day. It is
like clean and dirty. Being dirty is not a thing. Being dirty
is a condition. Thus sin is like dirt. You could say sin is
like an engine that isn't working right. If you abuse an
engine, then it doesn't work right. If we abuse our bodies, we
stain them and stain our souls too. Thus "sin" lives right in
the body, as a condition or state.[/quote]
[font=courier]Yes, it is a thing that attaches itself. While the
thing to which it attaches (you and me) was not in itself sin it
was corruptible and retained sin and/or sinful ways have
corrupted it and do corrupt it. Then the you or the me rots,
becomes rotten, becomes gangrenous to the point (if left to its
final worst end) where no amount of amputation can save what is
left. Then it is left for the dead to bury the dead.[/font]
[quote]Kerry: Thus it is written that Jesus Christ must come in
the flesh. The Spirit of Christ must dwell in us so fully that
all stains are erased. We can repent of our own sins, that's
for sure; but how can we repent of the sin which causes death
that dwells in the flesh? I don't think we can -- but we can
rely on the Spirit to take care of it.[/quote]
[font=courier]Can we repent of our ways, the ways of man, which
lead to sin, if we do not recognize them for what they are? If
those ways of man are not removed from us, we will sin
repeatedly in spite of our own best efforts. It is really not in
man that walketh to direct his own steps. Man requires
assistance.[/font]
[quote]Kerry:
I don't think John was talking about Jesus coming in the flesh
2000 years ago when he wrote what he did. It is not in the past
tense anyway. It's in the present tense. We can have Jesus
Christ come here and now in the flesh, so fully that the death
and sin in the flesh is defeated. I believe this can happen
now.[/quote]
[font=courier]So do I![/font]
[quote]Kerry: Until it happens, we still have something of the
antichrist about us -- either a little or a lot -- but even the
tiniest speck of yeast is enough to leaven the whole loaf.
Death is not defeated until every bit of sin is defeated even
within the flesh -- even the sin inherited from Adam. [/quote]
[font=courier]Yes, we are a mixed bag, the new man...
hopefully... and too much of the old man (the yeast which can
leaven the whole thing).
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there
shall be no more death, ..." Rev 21:4[/font]
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