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#Post#: 2384--------------------------------------------------
How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Justin Mangonel
Date: December 4, 2012, 3:04 pm
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Dear all,
Some may think that "how to interpret scripture" is an
intellectual exercise best left to the learned amongst us but I
believe that the interpretation of scripture is primarily a
spiritual endeavor.
Secondly, if the way we are going about it now days is correct
why have we not come into agreement? How is it that a fool need
not err therein?
I believe that experience should lean interpretation and not
vice vers. What you say to that? (remember to show you
work...grin.)
#Post#: 2385--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: James
Date: December 4, 2012, 3:56 pm
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[color=black]Quote from Justin:-
Secondly, if the way we are going about it now days is correct
why have we not come into agreement? [/color]
This question pre-supposes that it is the interpretation of
Scripture that beings agreement, a spurious argument!
I might ask who says we at this time should all be in agreement?
Is this another revelation that you feel you have had
concerning the condition of the bride? Does the bridegroom
see the church as "not in agreement"?
If, there is not agreement, do you not believe that the grace of
God will bring what is needed in the end, without a new theology
of 'lets all interpret scripture correctly' to bring it about?
That sounds like purification via works to me.
James
#Post#: 2395--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Amadeus
Date: December 4, 2012, 8:08 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Justin: Some may think that "how to interpret scripture" is an
intellectual exercise best left to the learned amongst us but I
believe that the interpretation of scripture is primarily a
spiritual endeavor.
--- End Quote ---
Speaking to the butler and the baker in prison Joseph said...
"... Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray
you." Gen 40:8
They were speaking specifically of dreams, but any
interpretation of things from God certainly would belong to God,
or...?
God speaks to men. He has used visions, or dreams, or scripture,
or preachers, or a still small voice. Paul's writings, I
believe, address this as well...
"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the
church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28
While he was speaking specifically of tongues or unknown
tongues, didn't he mean that the ultimate interpreter must be
present, which is God? If we are to understand what God is
saying to us, by whatever means, is it not necessary for God to
give the means to understand (an interpreter) what He is saying?
Jesus said, in effect, the same thing, but related it to
parables, which was how Jesus spoke in unknown tongues. He spoke
in parables, but an interpreter was needed for those who were
supposed to understand could understand His meaning. He made it
clear that some could and some could not understand. Some had
the right interpreter and some did not:
"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull
of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time
they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and
should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and
I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they
hear." Matt 13:15-16
--- Quote ---
> Justin: Secondly, if the way we are going about it now days is
correct why have we not come into agreement? How is it that a
fool need not err therein?
--- End Quote ---
This is, of course, the question, isn't it? So many churches, so
many preachers and Bible teachers and so many different
understandings! Why is it so? It could be that some are mixing
their own understanding with God's understanding and ending up
with confusion. So very then is Babylon (confusion) today?
--- Quote ---
> Justin: I believe that experience should lean interpretation
and not vice vers. What you say to that? (remember to show you
work...grin.)
--- End Quote ---
I really do not understand exactly what you are saying. I will
take crack at it anyway.
If you are you saying that by experience with God, we will learn
to better understand (interpret) His voice, I would agree. The
only way we can become sheep, who always hear and recognize and
understand the Master's voice, is by the Holy Ghost. If a person
has the gift of the Holy Ghost and doesn't always recognize the
Master's voice, isn't something amiss or missing?
#Post#: 2408--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: December 5, 2012, 10:13 am
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Before I would try to answer the question asked, I would like to
ask what the purpose of the Bible is? If we misunderstand the
purpose of the Bible, then we will be looking at it as something
it is not.
Does it say itself why it exists? Why did Moses or anyone else
write anything down?
If a person thinks he knows the answer to this before he starts
the Bible, i say he's wasting his time. He's reading it for the
wrong purposes and will derive, most probably, whatever he wants
from it. If he can believe the simplest things, the easiest
things, then he may read the Bible profitably.
One fact: Abraham and Moses didn't need the Bible. Do we?
If so, why? What does the Bible say of it?
#Post#: 2409--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Justin Mangonel
Date: December 5, 2012, 10:27 am
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Dear all,
I believe the Bible is the knowledge of good and evil - just
from God's perspective. Furthermore, I believe that the Bible
was only written because we could no longer hear God directly
and thus was a step down from what God intended. If you read
the account of Israel at the mount of God our Father wanted to
speak the Law to them all and only after they drew back in fear
did he write it.
#Post#: 2423--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: December 5, 2012, 12:28 pm
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--- Quote from: Justin Mangonel link ---
>
> Dear all,
>
> I believe the Bible is the knowledge of good and evil - just
from God's perspective. Furthermore, I believe that the Bible
was only written because we could no longer hear God directly
and thus was a step down from what God intended. If you read
the account of Israel at the mount of God our Father wanted to
speak the Law to them all and only after they drew back in fear
did he write it.
>
--- End Quote ---
I almost agree but not quite. Israel could hear but didn't want
to. They hardened their hearts. Today, if men's hearts are
hard, they cannot hear from God.
Some days after Passover, God told Moses to tell the people to
prepare themselves to hear His Voice.
When they heard the Voice of God, all they understood sensibly
themselves was the Decalogue. Then they grew fearful and asked
Moses to speak to them and not God.
Exodus 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and
we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
That is what happened then. On Pentecost, they heard sensible
only the Ten Sayings, and Moses then gave them a more complete
set of written laws. The written laws were not the Torah of
Light but a substitute. Israel was meant to study the Written
Torah in order to correct their hearts so they could hear the
Voice of God and receive for themselves the Law of Light written
on their hearts.
The Bible exists because of men's hard hearts; and one can
interpret the Bible correctly only to the extent his heart is
corrected. "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see
God." Those with impure hearts can read and they will imagine
foolish things.
Now when we see this and realize our own hearts have defects and
need correcting, we should expect to be driven into the
wilderness by the Spirit to be tempted by Satan. Yes, when we
read the Bible even. Our past errors rise before us. Can this
be true? If we reject these thoughts as wrong, using the Bible
to correct us, going not by one passage or two which suit us,
then we may arrive at the truth by emptying the mind of human
foolishness.
However, the human mind, being rational, cannot use logic to
derive truth in spiritual things. It cannot even do that in
material things. Why would we think it could in more difficult
things then? What the rational mind can do is tell us when we
are wrong. Science operates this way. We use science to tell
us what theories are false, not what must be true. We should
use the Scriptures to inform us of what ideas we have are false.
The person who thinks he must abandon reason and logic to
understand God surely errs. God gave us minds to help us come
to understand Him, and that is by seeing falsehoods as false and
rejecting them.
You cannot say sensibly that God is this or that; but you can
see how God cannot be this or that. Were anyone able to remove
all the errors in his mind about God, he would be enlightened;
but as long as his heart clings to false notions and does want
to change, he is stumbling in the dark.
#Post#: 2424--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Leaf
Date: December 5, 2012, 1:02 pm
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I know that for myself that the bible has corrected me and kept
me line. Has let me know when I have 'received' incorrectly.
The bible was the only authority I had when God revealed Himself
to me. It is good to have an authority to align one's self with.
Sometimes, for this reason, I think the bible is more useful for
a person whom has had revelation than for those who haven't. The
Spirit agrees with it's* self. There is no confusion or
contradiction within the Spirit, but we humans can be errant. So
again, it is good to have an authority to align one's self with.
Of course, if I hadn't already read the bible a number of times
prior, I have to wonder if His words would have come to me in
rememberance to correct me.
Otherwise, I believe that the bible is useful to teach spiritual
truths. I don't think of it as a history book or a science book
even though it may contain some history and some scientific
leaning verses.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly
furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:15-16
*What is a better word than it's? I so dislike referring to God
as an it. :-[
#Post#: 2425--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Justin Mangonel
Date: December 5, 2012, 2:02 pm
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Dear K,
"The Bible exists because of men's hard hearts; and one can
interpret the Bible correctly only to the extent his heart is
corrected. "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see
God." Those with impure hearts can read and they will imagine
foolish things."
Well said,
Blessings,
Justin
#Post#: 2436--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: December 5, 2012, 5:08 pm
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^ It doesn't say much for man's ideas, does it, Justin, when we
think almost anything?
#Post#: 2441--------------------------------------------------
Re: How then shall we interpret scritpure?
DIR By: Justin Mangonel
Date: December 5, 2012, 10:21 pm
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Dear K,
There is a way which seems right o man...
This is the central problem. We are trying to lead a spiritual
life while munching on the forbidden fruit. The two are
mutually exclusive. I would venture that Jesus did not live by
what He though was right but lived simply as the first Adam
did...by revelation. This is why, at age twelve, He could talk
intelligently and even confound the doctors of the law. It was
wisdom from above that astounded them. All there learning could
not compete with simply knowing God.
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