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#Post#: 35201--------------------------------------------------
A Question That No One Asks
By: KerimF Date: August 2, 2025, 12:59 pm
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Hello,
In general, the today’s main preachers of Jesus’ message, unlike
Jesus, His Apostles, and His First Disciples, are loved, if not
honored sometimes, by the world and the ruling systems.
But Jesus said clearly to His Apostles and First Disciples:
“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated
you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but
because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of
the world, therefore the world hateth you.”
“I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them,
because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the
world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the
world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are
not of the world, even as I am not of the world.”
The question is:
How could we explain these opposite realities in the past and
now?
Since the communications on the internet are very well
controlled and watched (one of the greatest achievements of the
Modern Slavery), I couldn’t let this question reach any site
that preaches Jesus’ message. In the rare cases I was able to do
it, I didn’t get any reply.
One may wonder:
[1] Was Jesus ignorant that, after 2000 years, His devoted
disciples will be of the world and, therefore, be loved by it?
[2] Or was Jesus’ message deformed, in a very clever way, by the
powerful rich Christian preachers, so that the world can love
them and be more powerful and richer?
But there may be another answer on which I have no idea.
Kerim
The student/disciple of Jesus that the world, starting from his
family, couldn't see in him one of its own people.
#Post#: 35202--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Question That No One Asks
By: Kerry Date: August 3, 2025, 2:42 pm
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^ I tend to agree with you, Kerim.
#Post#: 35203--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Question That No One Asks
By: KerimF Date: August 3, 2025, 3:22 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1593.msg35202#msg35202
date=1754250139]
^ I tend to agree with you, Kerim.
[/quote]
So, I have to add something that you cannot agree ;)
Let us recall that a real disciple of Jesus (who loves even his
enemies) cannot be a real patriot, unless his enemies are not
listed on the list that shows the enemies of his country; a list
made and imposed by his ruling system (which is run by powerful
rich families in every period of time).
A real patriot must trust and obey his rulers. So, he will be a
traitor, a sinner that deserves earthly punishment, if he lives
God’s unconditional Love/care, on earth as it is in Heaven,
towards all others, friends and enemies.
Loving Jesus really means trusting His advice/sayings fully
which oppose, directly or indirectly, the interests of any
ruling system (actually, they oppose the preprogrammed instincts
of survival, superiority and applying justice on others).
Jesus even added:
“He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not
worthy of me.
#Post#: 35204--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Question That No One Asks
By: Kerry Date: August 3, 2025, 4:01 pm
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[quote author=KerimF link=topic=1593.msg35203#msg35203
date=1754252536]
So, I have to add something that you cannot agree ;)
Let us recall that a real disciple of Jesus (who loves even his
enemies) cannot be a real patriot, unless his enemies are not
listed on the list that shows the enemies of his country; a list
made and imposed by his ruling system (which is run by powerful
rich families in every period of time).
A real patriot must trust and obey his rulers. So, he will be a
traitor, a sinner that deserves earthly punishment, if he lives
God’s unconditional Love/care, on earth as it is in Heaven,
towards all others, friends and enemies.
Loving Jesus really means trusting His advice/sayings fully
which oppose, directly or indirectly, the interests of any
ruling system (actually, they oppose the preprogrammed instincts
of survival, superiority and applying justice on others).
Jesus even added:
“He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not
worthy of me.
[/quote]I don't agree with that. What I would say is that
someone who loves his country more than the kingdom of Heaven
isn't worthy of Jesus. When the two conflict, he'll betray
Jesus. If the two don't conflict, we should love our country.
Luke 20:22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or
no?
23 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why
tempt ye me?
24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They
answered and said, Caesar's.
25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the
things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be
God's.
In the US, the problem seems to be many churches loving money
more than God. Some are acting slaves of Trump too which I see
as a problem; and some of the ministers use their positions to
get sexual favors.
#Post#: 35205--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Question That No One Asks
By: Heartsong Date: August 3, 2025, 7:04 pm
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[quote author=KerimF link=topic=1593.msg35203#msg35203
date=1754252536]
So, I have to add something that you cannot agree ;)
Let us recall that a real disciple of Jesus (who loves even his
enemies) cannot be a real patriot, unless his enemies are not
listed on the list that shows the enemies of his country; a list
made and imposed by his ruling system (which is run by powerful
rich families in every period of time).[/Quote]
The leaders of a country might tell their people that another
country is their enemy but that doesn't mean that the people
agree with those leaders.
I know who my enemies are quite clearly. It has been made
glaringly evident to me in the most brutal way.
For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the
LORD.”
[Quote]A real patriot must trust and obey his rulers. So, he
will be a traitor, a sinner that deserves earthly punishment, if
he lives God’s unconditional Love/care, on earth as it is in
Heaven, towards all others, friends and enemies[/Quote]
I would say that as a citizen of this country I am to obey the
laws of this country as long as those laws don't conflict with
God's laws. I don't get caught up in the political process or
trust political leaders very much.
[Quote]Jesus even added:
“He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not
worthy of me.
[/quote]
For where your treasure is your heart will be also. God has the
first place in my heart.
#Post#: 35206--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Question That No One Asks
By: KerimF Date: August 4, 2025, 1:04 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1593.msg35204#msg35204
date=1754254888]
I don't agree with that. What I would say is that someone who
loves his country more than the kingdom of Heaven isn't worthy
of Jesus. When the two conflict, he'll betray Jesus. If the
two don't conflict, we should love our country.
[/quote]
Although I am not a patriot, I have no reason not to obey the
rules which are imposed on my community by the local rulers as
long they don't prevent me to live the unconditional love
towards all others, good and evil.
For instance, the notion of 'country' doesn't exist in my
reality because I am not sure what it means exactly in the first
place.
Just because I was born in a certain place (that was given a
name of a country by some ancient people and its borders was
defined and redefined by some others in every period of time), I
have to accept that I belong to that place, not to anywhere else
in the universe. So, I can't love/trust or hate a country. But I
also understand that the notion of ‘country’ is important to
most humans in the world; it helps them feel safer by belonging
to a specific well-organized group of people (one of the
prerequisites of their instincts of survival).
By the way, one cannot betray God (the One Will/Power of Jesus
and the Heavenly Father). A human, unlike any other living
thing, was given the freedom to follow his robotic nature/body
(born of the flesh) till its death or oppose it, as possible, to
feed his soul (born of the Spirit) for eternity.
#Post#: 35208--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Question That No One Asks
By: Kerry Date: August 4, 2025, 8:24 pm
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[quote author=KerimF link=topic=1593.msg35201#msg35201
date=1754157564]
Hello,
In general, the today’s main preachers of Jesus’ message, unlike
Jesus, His Apostles, and His First Disciples, are loved, if not
honored sometimes, by the world and the ruling systems.
[/quote]I just found out some good about a church one of my
nephews goes to. I don't know anything about that church except
what my nephew and my sister told me today.
My nephew doesn't hold a regular job. He can't; but he gets
disability checks, so he makes it okay on his own. In his spare
time, he buys the contents of storage lockers when they get
auctioned off for non-payment. Might be exciting since you
never know what you're getting. Then he sells the stuff on the
internet. He also has stuff stored up. What's he do with the
money? He likes to do favors for people; and he told me today
he's so happy if he has something in the shed when someone
mentions they need that item. He also likes to drive people
without cars if they need a ride.
I had been wondering what to do with my stock portfolio and
house. I decided to give them to him, so I called my sister
today to get some information I needed. After we chatted for a
while, luck would have it that he showed up and I got to talk to
him too.
That's when I learned that he was tired of paying so much in
income taxes and was planning to set up a charity; and some man
at his church was going to help him. I told him to give me a
call or email if and when he got it set up. My impression of
his church was good then. I don't know if the charity will be
church-affiilated or not. I was delighted by the call.
I hope my other relatives aren't annoyed; but honestly I don't
think they need the money; and as I told him, I knew he'd put
the money to good use if I gave it to him.
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