DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Love God Only
HTML https://lovegodonly.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Things of the Spirit
*****************************************************
#Post#: 1420--------------------------------------------------
Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Runner Date: November 2, 2012, 11:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a
cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin
which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the
race that is set before us.—Heb 12
When the powers of hell prevail
O’er our weakness and unfitness,
Could we lift the fleshly veil,
Could we for a moment witness
Those unnumbered hosts that stand
Calm and bright on either hand;
Oh, what joyful hope would cheer,
Oh, what faith serene would guide us!
Great may be the danger near,
Greater are the friends beside us.
~ANON.~
We are compassed about by a cloud of witnesses, who I am sure
'feel' our every struggle, and who thrill with joy at every
success. They have finished.... but still they remain...
waiting for us, so that they with us can be 'made perfect'.
They have seen, they have found,they have tasted...........
Being at the end of the road..or close to it ( some days more
than others!) I would like to believe that after I have passed
over, I could not only 'watch helplessly' as my children and
grandchildren struggling along...I wonder IF there is any kind
of strength or influence 'those there' can give to those still
here.
I don't find anything biblically. It seems that they are just
'witnesses' I read of no 'influence'. I do tell one of my
grandchildren " You will not be alone..I will be cheering you
on...I will be sitting on your shoulder and shout in your ear
when you step off the path..etc" We laugh at this...obviously I
wish it could be true.
Yet I know that the only strength of any real value, is from
Father, not me.
Has anyone else had such thoughts....is it even right to
entertain such thoughts!
#Post#: 1423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Leaf Date: November 2, 2012, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,
you and your household.” Acts 16:31
What you have spoke about is one of the ways that the above
verse is fulfilled.
#Post#: 1428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: bənę hāʼĕlōhîm
Date: November 2, 2012, 1:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center][quote author=Runner link=topic=159.msg1420#msg1420
date=1351874338]
I wonder IF there is any kind of strength or influence 'those
there' can give to those still here.
[/quote][/center]
I think, and what I truly BELIEVE... Is that we can have Faith
in our Father, to get those "HERE" SAFELY "THERE"... He has the
whole world, in His hands... His Will will prevail!!!
In our hearts and minds they were never gone... They lived on in
our memories!!!
All we can do is lead by example... Nudge them along the way...
and ultimately it will be what they remember from the example we
lead... Even in moments when we are still here; we are not with
them every second but there memory of our example is... and so
it has been for those who have moved on there for Us...
#Post#: 1430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Runner Date: November 2, 2012, 2:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Quote leaf..They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus,
and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31
What you have spoke about is one of the ways that the above
verse is fulfilled.[/quote]
:) Well, it looks like this is another instance where I know
what I was trying to say in the OP , but no one else does!! LOL
As you can all well see, English was not a top subject at
school with me....in fact I pretty much flunked school. (
between always being sickly, and always playing up in class to
cover up what I didn't know...I was well liked.....as the class
clown! True.
What I was interested in was..QUOTE:-
Being at the end of the road..or close to it ( some days more
than others!) I would like to believe that after I have passed
over, I could not only 'watch helplessly' as my children and
grandchildren struggling along...but I wonder IF there is any
kind of strength or influence 'those up there' can give to those
still down here.
I don't find anything biblically. It seems that they are 'just
witnesses' I read of no 'influence'. etc etc etc....
Is the only 'help' they up there can give to those down
here...the fact that ..
we know and we are aware , that we are compassed about with so
great a cloud of witnesses, Is that "it"!! I guess so.
I have found that with some still down here, that that knowledge
does not stop or check anyone from doing what they are doing and
how they are living..
They do not.... lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth
so easily beset us.. ( I am talking about Christian here...not
the unsaved people etc ...that is down to The Gospel)
So maybe I am answering my own question. Those above have no
influence on those down here.
Do you ever start a thread and wish that you hadn't! ::)
#Post#: 1432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Leaf Date: November 2, 2012, 3:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hmmmm....
I thought that you were clear and that I was addressing what you
were talking about. I still think I know what you are talking
about. No doubt it is me that is causing the difficulty in being
understood. My apologies... I shall try again...
Yes, one of the ways the members of our households are saved is
through the bond of love. It tugs, pulls and draws. The draw of
love does not end just because this physical shell has changed.
You will (and do) want them where you are and they will (and do)
want to be where you are. It's irresistible.
I doubt that you will be watching hopelessly as you put it.
Otherwise, I was in support of what you were hoping for.
The influence you have is the bond of love. The word bond...
Bond
Attached
One piece
Bond of love... can not be separated, ever. They must/MUST come
to be where you are.
#Post#: 1433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: James Date: November 2, 2012, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
H, I don't know all the science stuff (I bet Kerry does) but I
am under the impression that all things vibrate at a different
pitch.
I believe this is why you can go somewhere and feel peace and
another place and it feels discordant.
So what I believe is that all words spoken still remain as do
all people, well the vibration of them and this can be
experienced by others if they as it were tune into the same
vibration by seeking the peace or rest of the one who has now
died. In that way we can make an influence by making sure we
leave (as the beach boys sung) good vibrations.
Ok now tell me I'm mad!!
James
#Post#: 1434--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Leaf Date: November 2, 2012, 3:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I won't James. :D
Helen, Now, I am thinking that you want to be an influence in
their regular every day daily lives... you won't want to do
that... I don't think. You will see the reason for the struggles
and not want to interfere I believe. (see it wasn't you who was
daft! twas me!
#Post#: 1439--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Kerry Date: November 2, 2012, 7:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Runner link=topic=159.msg1430#msg1430
date=1351883724]
I don't find anything biblically. It seems that they are 'just
witnesses' I read of no 'influence'. etc etc etc....[/quote]What
about this?
Exodus 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the
king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason
of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God
by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant
with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had
respect unto them.
I don't read that as meaning God "forgot" the covenants. I
think it means that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were interceding on
behalf of their children; and when it became possible for God to
answer their prayers, He did.
I also read the "blood of Abel" crying out as righteous, calling
for Mercy. That's the proper vengeance, isn't it? To destroy
evil by granting mercy and opportunity for repentance?
Similarly we see the souls of the dead asking for action from
God in Revelation. Again, I see "avenge" as a positive thing.
Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How
long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our
blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was
said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season,
until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should
be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Did the saints die in vain? Was their suffering for nothing?
When will God take action then? When He can without interfering
with the free will of men alive on earth is what I believe. I
believe the early Church was built on the blood of the martyred
saints. They are like lambs, like the Lamb of God. Their
intercessions in Heaven have pull, I do believe.
Note too that love binds or ties two people together. If you go
up and I want to be with you, I have to move up myself. I
believe Jesus had to "move up" into Heaven to force his
disciples to want to follow him. It's like a fishing line. I
think it was necessary that Jesus leave this world in order to
get his disciples to do "greater deeds."
What is the reward spoken of here?
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and
persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you
falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in
heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before
you.
A bigger mansion? I think not. I hope not. I hope it is being
able to look down on the earth and see how your efforts were not
wasted and how you now have influence in Heaven to bring more
souls into the Kingdom.
If people love or hate you, God can use it to save them as long
as you keep that "fishing line" of love intact. That is what
I believe. Paul connects the trials of this world with the
permanence of the ties of love.
Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the
day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through
him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels,
nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things
to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able
to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus
our Lord.
You can read "us" two ways if you neglect verses 36 and 37.
You can read it as meaning "me" and "you" as individuals being
attached to God through Jesus. I think we can also read it to
mean we are conquerors even after we die through the ties of
love we have established on earth; and sometimes those ties led
some people to the slaughter just as Jesus was.
As a child, there were a few times when I could "feel" my
Grandmother in Heaven looking at me, wishing the best for me and
helping me. This stopped after a certain point. . . . I take
it that her prayers had been answered?
#Post#: 1443--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Kerry Date: November 2, 2012, 8:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=James link=topic=159.msg1433#msg1433
date=1351886822]
H, I don't know all the science stuff (I bet Kerry does) but I
am under the impression that all things vibrate at a different
pitch.
I believe this is why you can go somewhere and feel peace and
another place and it feels discordant.
So what I believe is that all words spoken still remain as do
all people, well the vibration of them and this can be
experienced by others if they as it were tune into the same
vibration by seeking the peace or rest of the one who has now
died. In that way we can make an influence by making sure we
leave (as the beach boys sung) good vibrations.
Ok now tell me I'm mad!!
James[/quote]You can tell me I'm mad. I believe the ideas we
send out into the world act like birds or insects -- going out
and out. Sometimes they echo back at us. I saw some years
what looked smoke drifting across Afghanistan. When I looked
it closer up, what had looked like smoke from a distance looked
like a swarm of vexatious insects. They were ideas, as mad as
that sounds. I don't know, but my guess is they went out as the
result of cursing.
I believe God has captured some of the negative ideas we have
let loose in the world with our words; but some day we will have
to deal with them. Then they will be let loose "out of the pit"
ascending like smoke. They will return to the people who sent
them out. They will feel it as torture, but it's opportunity
to deal with the words they let fly.
Oh yes, words are kept track of by the angels too who serve as
witnesses to the accuracy of things. There are two ways to read
these:
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by
thy words thou shalt be condemned.
One is that the recording angels have their records. I think we
also have the words themselves.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of
judgment.
My guess is the account we will give is having them return to
us, like chickens coming home to roost.
Luke 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
#Post#: 1446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Q. Do/Can, we draw strength.
By: Runner Date: November 2, 2012, 9:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]QUOTE Kerry..I hope it is being able to look down on the
earth and see how your efforts were not wasted and how you now
have influence in Heaven to bring more souls into the Kingdom.
[/quote]
Yes I like that..a lot!
[quote]
As a child, there were a few times when I could "feel" my
Grandmother in Heaven looking at me, wishing the best for me and
helping me. This stopped after a certain point. . . . I take
it that her prayers had been answered?[/quote]
And yes..that is the kind of thing I was thinking about!!
[quote]QUOTE LEAF..
Helen, Now, I am thinking that you want to be an influence in
their regular every day daily lives... you won't want to do
that... I don't think. You will see the reason for the struggles
and not want to interfere I believe. (see it wasn't you who was
daft! twas me!)[/quote]
Phew...yes...that WAS what I thought I was saying in the first
post!!
I do like the bit where you say "" You will see the reason for
their struggles and not want to interfere." Good point...I
never thought of that....true. We will have a clearer eye w/o
all the emotions we have now.
[quote]QUOTE James.. I am under the impression that all things
vibrate at a different pitch.
I believe this is why you can go somewhere and feel peace and
another place and it feels discordant.
[/quote]
That's a good point too. I have had dreams with both dad and mum
in them ( not at the same time) I often wonder if the 'essence
of them' bleeds through to the sleeper...or if it just comes up
from inside the sleeper. It always 'seems real.'
I know I would want to come back down to my grandchildren and
influence them for good...but as Leaf said..that is only because
I am who I am now, I am not yet who I am going to be...when
there. ( I'd probably not want to just influence them, but slap
them ..hard.)
I guess I am still wondering what those " cloud of witnesses"
are there for, if they are no help to the ones down here.
Obviously they are not far away, or we couldn't be " encompassed
about".
*****************************************************