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#Post#: 34088--------------------------------------------------
Eden
By: Justaname Date: May 29, 2023, 1:49 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1550.msg34085#msg34085
date=1685353487]
[size=14pt]I think I would feel like Eve if I wanted to "know"
every little thing so I could be as wise as God. Just look at
that situation. She knew about God Who had given her so much;
but that serpent tempted her to want to "know" things she didn't
need to know! She knew God was good, so what else did she need
to know?
[/quote]
[/size]
I didn’t want to hijack someone else’s thread …so bouncing
Kerry’s post here …
I’m finding that the more I think I know the more I find that I
don’t know!!
I liked being 40 , because at 40 I knew everything , understood
the Bible , and had locked down most of the answers ! Hmmmm not.
So , how come God judges Cain for his veggie sacrifice , yet we
read nowhere that Adam or his family were instructed to
sacrifice.
So, was Abel ‘s just a heart thing ? How did he know ‘a lamb’
, how did he know that the blood was what was needed ?
It’ seems obvious that he knew about “the Lamb of God slain “
before the foundation of the world …Was he or Adam prophetic ?
Did he know things ‘by the Spirit ‘ like David did in his psalms
?
It seems to me that weighty things in the Bible are hidden from
us….with no mention of so much!
Now I can understand why in the NT it says that if everything
Jesus said and did were recorded , the world could not contain
it!
Let alone every that happened since Eden!
But, I must say I wish that Father would fill in many blanks
[emoji1]
#Post#: 34089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: TrevorL Date: May 29, 2023, 4:24 pm
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Greetings Helen,[quote author=Helen
link=topic=1553.msg34088#msg34088 date=1685386149]I’m
finding that the more I think I know the more I find that I
don’t know!!
I liked being 40 , because at 40 I knew everything , understood
the Bible , and had locked down most of the answers ! Hmmmm not.
[/quote]You have given some interesting thoughts here. There
seems to be a depth almost unfathomable on occasions to most of
the Scriptures, but I suggest that we should seek out the basics
and hold fast to these and using these as foundations build a
strong faith with a wide perspective. As for knowledge of any
portion we never really arrive. I have a few favourite passages,
for example Psalm 8 and Isaiah 6, but find that if a speaker
gives a talk then he will reveal a new perspective, sometimes
very obvious after the event.
[quote]So , how come God judges Cain for his veggie sacrifice ,
yet we read nowhere that Adam or his family were instructed to
sacrifice.
So, was Abel ‘s just a heart thing ? How did he know
‘a lamb’ , how did he know that the blood was what was
needed ? [/quote]Is there a lesson in the fact that Adam and Eve
needed skins to cover their nakedness and this becomes a theme
throughout Scripture Revelation 16:15? Perhaps we should
consider Genesis 3:24 and ask what were these Cherubim, and also
where did Cain and Abel come to present their offerings. My
deduction is that the Cherubim here are a precursor to the
Cherubim in the Tabernacle, and it mentions that they were to
guard the way to the tree of life. To guard is not just to
prohibit, but to reveal the way to the tree of life. I believe
that this was enacted by Angels, and they would be a source of
instruction in the ways of God. Genesis 3:15 speaks of two
seeds, the seed of the woman reflecting faith in God's promises
and way, and the seed of the serpent following the lusts of the
flesh. Cain revealed the lusts of the flesh, while Abel had
listened to the Word of God and had meditated on what had been
revealed and brought forth the fruit of this process.
[quote]It’ seems obvious that he knew about “the Lamb
of God slain “ before the foundation of the world …Was
he or Adam prophetic ?
Did he know things ‘by the Spirit ‘ like David did in
his psalms ? [/quote]I do not see the need for Abel to be
directly inspired like David, but even David's faith was
strongly developed in his youth, and may have also been
instructed by Ruth and Boaz.
[quote]It seems to me that weighty things in the Bible are
hidden from us….with no mention of so much! [/quote]I
suggest that the weighty things are revealed, but spiritual
growth is necessary to appreciate these things.
[quote]Now I can understand why in the NT it says that if
everything Jesus said and did were recorded , the world could
not contain it! [/quote]What has been revealed is sufficient for
a life time of study, growth and rejoicing. More will be
revealed to us when we are in the Kingdom.
[quote]Let alone every that happened since Eden![/quote]Yes.
[quote]But, I must say I wish that Father would fill in many
blanks [emoji1] [/quote]Yes, but he has given sufficient to
occupy our attention by reading, prayer and meditation.
Kind regards
Trevor
#Post#: 34091--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: Kerry Date: May 29, 2023, 5:03 pm
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[quote author=TrevorL link=topic=1553.msg34089#msg34089
date=1685395471]
Is there a lesson in the fact that Adam and Eve needed skins to
cover their nakedness and this becomes a theme throughout
Scripture Revelation 16:15?
[/quote]I'm pressed for time now, but that a mistranslation has
led to much confusion. The original Hebrew reads "skin" not
"skins." Translators thinking "skin" couldn't be right made it
into the plural in their translations.
I believe Adam and Eve were originally clothed in the Light of
God. They lost their garments of White Light. They entered
physical bodies and were clothed in the skin of those bodies.
It is not clear to me, however, that Adam and Eve or even Cain
and Abel were "human beings" the way we are. When we reach
"Enos," we can be sure since his name means just that -- an
earthly man -- while Adam means a spiritual man.
What about Revelation 16:15? Yes, I think there is a connection
between Genesis and Revelation -- but what is it? Is that
talking about earthly garments, or it referring to the garments
of Light the saints should have?
#Post#: 34092--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: Kerry Date: May 29, 2023, 5:18 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=1553.msg34088#msg34088
date=1685386149]
So , how come God judges Cain for his veggie sacrifice , yet we
read nowhere that Adam or his family were instructed to
sacrifice.
[/quote]More later, Helen; but for now let me pass on something
I think I read at a Jewish site. Cain was offering stunted and
misshapen grains which had grown in the cursed ground. I'd say
he was offering the "strength" of his "carnal body" as a
sacrifice but not loving God with his heart, mind and soul.
Today we talk about people in comas as being in a vegetative
state. How appropriate. There is a "vegetable" aspect to out
bodies. Without the spirit animating it, the body can stay
alive but in very sad shape. The same curse which fell on the
earth, producing thorns and thistles, fell on the earthly atoms
of the "dust" used to fashion Adam and Eve. Death entered the
world of Adam and Eve.
We see Jesus later reversing this curse. He took the crown of
thorns carnal men put on his head and changed it into the Crown
of Life.
#Post#: 34096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: Kerry Date: May 29, 2023, 7:40 pm
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I find what Jeremiah wrote about sacrifices interesting.
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded
them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
That verse gave me quite a start when I first read it; but then
I realized it was true. God had not devised the sacrifices of
animals or even of the priestly system or even the Tabernacle
until later, after Israel sinned in a particular way.
Nor was the Passover Lamb considered a sacrifice for personal
sins. The protection offered by the blood of the lamb was also
for everyone in that house, including children too young to know
much and any Gentiles as long as they were circumcised -- and
many Egyptians were.
So much can be said I don't know where to go next; but let's
discuss the blood on the doors.
Exodus 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on
the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses,
wherein they shall eat it.
Now if you can imagine in your mind's eye how a human body fits
through a door, you will see how closely the positioning of this
blood mirrors the hands and inner eye in your forehead. That
inner eye is what we visualize things with. We see physical
objects with our two physical eyes; but we see things of the
Spirit with that "eye" in the forehead. Now see how that
connects with the opposite: The mark of the beast.
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a
loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and
receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Note too that God's servants receive the Seal of God in their
foreheads.
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor
the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their
foreheads.
I will skip over what I think the sea and the trees are for now.
Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the
earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the
earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass
of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but
only those men which have not the seal of God in their
foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but
that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was
as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
People wind up having one or the other: Either the Seal of God
or the Mark of the Beast.
Now the Seal of God can be seen more easily by animals than by
men and women. The Seal tells the animals to obey the person
with the Seal. This was one way God made it possible for Adam
and Eve to exercise dominion over the earth. We ought not be
too surprised that animals would obey Jesus. Of course they
would since he had the Seal of God and they could see it.
Now back to Cain. I believe when he allowed his rage to
continue, he was in danger of setting his whole body on fire
with the fire of hell. I do not know if he spoke any words in
fact, but I imagine he was feeling like it.
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is
the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body,
and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire
of hell.
God warned him but it did no good. This, by the way, is the
first time the word "sin" occurs in the Bible. Sin is crouching
at the door, Cain, be careful then and don't let pounce on you
and overcome you.
He had killed Abel before he knew what had happened. He had
acted like a wild beast without a conscience. The protective
Seal of God was lost. Perhaps he received the Mark of the
Beast. Note it well that the words "any" and "every one" are
used; and that easily could include animals as well as other
humans.
Genesis 4:13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is
greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the
earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a
fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass,
that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain,
vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a
mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Note too that men will be attacked by the beasts of the earth
according to Revelation.
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his
name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And
power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to
kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the
beasts of the earth.
This is not God punishing people, not as I see it. Rather I
think it is God removing His protection over men and women after
they've had more than enough time to repent. There comes a time
when humans need to face the consequences of the evil energy
they put out; and such evil energy is still being spewed out to
poison the earth. There comes a time when God says enough is
enough. Evil cannot be allowed to become so powerful that no one
could come to repentance.
Eve said, and correctly too, that Cain was a gift from God. God
does not give up easily on us.
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and
bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
#Post#: 34103--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: TrevorL Date: May 29, 2023, 10:49 pm
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Greetings Kerry,[quote author=Kerry
link=topic=1553.msg34091#msg34091 date=1685397807] I believe
Adam and Eve were originally clothed in the Light of God. They
lost their garments of White Light. They entered physical
bodies and were clothed in the skin of those bodies. It is
not clear to me, however, that Adam and Eve or even Cain and
Abel were "human beings" the way we are. [/quote]I find many of
your statements to me including the one I have quoted and your
other posts to Helen are very speculative, and I am not
interested in discussing these speculative ideas with you.
Kind regards
Trevor
#Post#: 34104--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: Kerry Date: May 29, 2023, 10:50 pm
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[quote author=TrevorL link=topic=1553.msg34103#msg34103
date=1685418584]
Greetings Kerry,I find many of your statements to me including
the one I have quoted and your other posts to Helen are very
speculative, and I am not interested in discussing these with
you.
Kind regards
Trevor
[/quote]That is fine, Trevor. One thing which isn't speculative
is that Genesis reads "skin" in the Hebrew and not "skins" as
the KJV has it. I'll leave it up to you what you make of that.
Even more astonishing to me is how some translations insert the
word "animal" into that verse so it reads "animal skins".
#Post#: 34107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: TrevorL Date: May 30, 2023, 4:48 am
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Greetings again Kerry,[quote author=Kerry
link=topic=1553.msg34104#msg34104 date=1685418623] That is fine,
Trevor. One thing which isn't speculative is that Genesis reads
"skin" in the Hebrew and not "skins" as the KJV has it. I'll
leave it up to you what you make of that. Even more astonishing
to me is how some translations insert the word "animal" into
that verse so it reads "animal skins". [/quote]Perhaps this is
pointing forward to our need to be clothed in the skin of the
Slain Lamb, the Lamb that was Slain from the foundation of the
world Revelation 13:8.
Kind regards
Trevor
#Post#: 34108--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: Kerry Date: May 30, 2023, 5:45 am
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[quote author=TrevorL link=topic=1553.msg34107#msg34107
date=1685440086]
Greetings again Kerry,Perhaps this is pointing forward to our
need to be clothed in the skin of the Slain Lamb, the Lamb that
was Slain from the foundation of the world Revelation 13:8.
Kind regards
Trevor
[/quote]That is a new idea to me.
#Post#: 34109--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eden
By: TrevorL Date: May 30, 2023, 6:01 am
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Greetings again Kerry,[quote author=Kerry
link=topic=1553.msg34108#msg34108 date=1685443535]That is a new
idea to me. . . . [/quote]Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV): 26 For ye are
all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many
of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and
heirs according to the promise.
Revelation 16:15 (KJV): Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he
that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and
they see his shame.
Revelation 19:6-7 KJV: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give
honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his
wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she
should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine
linen is the righteousness of saints.
Kind regards
Trevor
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