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#Post#: 27217--------------------------------------------------
Fools
By: coldwar Date: January 30, 2021, 8:26 am
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In Matt. 5:22, Jesus is saying that to call someone a "rhaka"
(worthless), or a "moros" (fool, stupid, moron) will be in
danger of the religious authority (council) and ghehennah fire,
the same as one who has committed murder (v21), seemingly then
to have consequences both in this life, and the afterlife. Yet,
Jesus himself often called other people fools, and foolish (eg.
Mt 23:17). It appears that he was on the one hand, amplifying
the Law back to what God had intended, yet at the same time did
not take heed himself. Any thoughts?
#Post#: 27218--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: HOLLAND Date: January 30, 2021, 11:31 am
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=1484.msg27217#msg27217
date=1612016813]
In Matt. 5:22, Jesus is saying that to call someone a "rhaka"
(worthless), or a "moros" (fool, stupid, moron) will be in
danger of the religious authority (council) and ghehennah fire,
the same as one who has committed murder (v21), seemingly then
to have consequences both in this life, and the afterlife. Yet,
Jesus himself often called other people fools, and foolish (eg.
Mt 23:17). It appears that he was on the one hand, amplifying
the Law back to what God had intended, yet at the same time did
not take heed himself. Any thoughts?
[/quote]
Does this passage refer, coldwar, as a warning to sinners not to
call others worthless or fools because all sinners partake of
worthlessness and foolishness? Perhaps Jesus, the only sinless
one in the flesh, is able to identify the foolish. This would
mean that the morality in Scripture as embodied in Jesus'
teaching may not be applicable to the Son of Man.
It is an interesting question ...
#Post#: 27219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: paralambano Date: January 30, 2021, 11:41 am
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Jesus used the term moros in conjunction with anger and insult
which is different from the other Greek words for "fool" or
"foolish" which mean acting rashly without having all the facts.
The first means to erase God's image in a person, something
no one should do to another. No one is worthless since we are
made in God's likeness, therefore an error or reflection
about Him.
para . . . .
#Post#: 27221--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: coldwar Date: January 30, 2021, 12:07 pm
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Does this passage refer, coldwar, as a warning to sinners not to
call others worthless or fools because all sinners partake of
worthlessness and foolishness?
My thoughts are along this line, yes. Specifically, I would see
it applying specifically to sinners who think they can be
justified by the Law - Jesus is clearly emphasizing the
Law's intent here. I'm actually creating this post in
response to a friend on another Forum who very distinctly called
both our present Prime Minister (Canada) and his father
"stupid", to which I take no political offense... I've at
one time or another voted for every Party we have available,
depending solely on what I want to see done at the time, so I
was not calling her out on her politics, but rather on what
Jesus said.
Jesus used the term moros in conjunction with anger and insult
which is different from the other Greek words for "fool" or
"foolish" which mean acting rashly without having all the facts.
Jesus used both words in the one statement, one of which is
distinctly "stupid. But in a way yes, I think this is exactly
what she was doing; calling them "stupid" without having all the
facts, but more-so, just in not obeying Jesus' words on the
subject. It was then she replied that Jesus called a lot of
people "fool(s)" too. So I want to investigate why Jesus was not
heeding his own words. More thoughts?
#Post#: 27222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: Kerry Date: January 30, 2021, 1:37 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=1484.msg27217#msg27217
date=1612016813]
In Matt. 5:22, Jesus is saying that to call someone a "rhaka"
(worthless), or a "moros" (fool, stupid, moron) will be in
danger of the religious authority (council) and ghehennah fire,
the same as one who has committed murder (v21), seemingly then
to have consequences both in this life, and the afterlife. Yet,
Jesus himself often called other people fools, and foolish (eg.
Mt 23:17). It appears that he was on the one hand, amplifying
the Law back to what God had intended, yet at the same time did
not take heed himself. Any thoughts?
[/quote]I read it as advice to people to learn how to curb
negative emotions. Would Cain have murdered Abel if he
hadn't had angry words first and then failed to curb his
anger after it was obvious he had no good reason for it?
Venting our angry with wounding words may seem harmless, but it
can lead to other things. Thus the person who resorts to
verbal insults is placing himself one step closer to murder. If
he could restrain his tongue, he wouldn't have to worry
about the possibility of murder. My mind goes to what James
wrote about the tongue starting a lot of fires.
#Post#: 27223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: Kerry Date: January 30, 2021, 4:27 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=1484.msg27221#msg27221
date=1612030035]
So I want to investigate why Jesus was not heeding his own
words. More thoughts?
[/quote]I can tell you what I think. If someone is a fool,
it's okay to notice; and if he is misleading other people,
you may doing them a favor by pointing out his foolishness. If
he isn't a fool and you call him that out of frustration,
you are putting yourself in "danger."
#Post#: 27225--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: coldwar Date: January 31, 2021, 8:16 am
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Kerry - yes to all the above. It's a broader topic than I might
have originally realized, but as Paralambano noted above, it's
most related to "not having all the facts", I think. As for my
friend who originally set me off, I know it was more over her
politics than the father and son who as individuals, have held
our top office.. I know this from her consistent
anti-liberalism, and, liking these men or not, I can certainly
say they are not stupid. A good way to put it to her would be to
ask "could you do the job better than they have done? If not,
what's your business calling them stupid?" This is in line with
those who Jesus called "fool(s)" - usually the Priests who held
the souls of the people in their hands, Levites as God
originally intended, but instead, were only in it for themselves
which was not allowed. (Interesting that in Acts 4:36, the
Levite Joses was a land-owner, which was forbidden to their
Priesthood, but he sold his land giving the proceeds to the
Apostles) Or, like the foolish man who built his house on sand -
having no thought for what would become of that house even
within his lifetime, or the foolish man who filled his barns,
with no thought for the afterlife. In all of these cases, Jesus
knew all the facts, and he would've done better than them.
#Post#: 27227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fools
By: Kerry Date: January 31, 2021, 11:41 am
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=1484.msg27225#msg27225
date=1612102607]
Kerry - yes to all the above. It's a broader topic than I might
have originally realized, but as Paralambano noted above, it's
most related to "not having all the facts", I think.[/quote]
Making judgment calls too fast, lacking all the facts, is
certainly a problem; and the person who does it can fall into
wishful thinking when he doesn't have all the facts. He can
become prey to conspiracy theories.
It seems natural to me that when we face a problem, we'd like to
have an explanation. Where we can err is jumping to
conclusions thinking we know when really we don't.
[quote]As for my friend who originally set me off, I know it was
more over her politics than the father and son who as
individuals, have held our top office.. I know this from her
consistent anti-liberalism, and, liking these men or not, I can
certainly say they are not stupid. A good way to put it to her
would be to ask "could you do the job better than they have
done? If not, what's your business calling them
stupid?"[/quote]Listening to how people explain other people
often provides clues about the people making the explanations.
My guess is that your friend may feel a little stupid herself,
so she may be projecting that feeling onto others by saying
they're the stupid ones.
[quote]This is in line with those who Jesus called "fool(s)" -
usually the Priests who held the souls of the people in their
hands, Levites as God originally intended, but instead, were
only in it for themselves which was not allowed. (Interesting
that in Acts 4:36, the Levite Joses was a land-owner, which was
forbidden to their Priesthood, but he sold his land giving the
proceeds to the Apostles) Or, like the foolish man who built his
house on sand - having no thought for what would become of that
house even within his lifetime, or the foolish man who filled
his barns, with no thought for the afterlife. In all of these
cases, Jesus knew all the facts, and he would've done better
than them.
[/quote]So many cases involve presuming. The priests presumed
they could do as they wanted and get away with it. Maybe some
were really atheists -- in their hearts -- "The fool has said in
his heart there is no God." Others may assumed God would
forgive them, no matter what.
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