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#Post#: 25252--------------------------------------------------
How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: Kerry Date: April 4, 2020, 5:01 pm
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Was Israel in Egypt for four hundred years? Some people say
that, basing it on this verse:
Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy
seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall
serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Notice that Egypt is not mentioned. Should we just assume
that's what it means, or did the clock start ticking with the
birth of Isaac?
#Post#: 25258--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: paralambano Date: April 5, 2020, 8:05 am
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Beats me, Kerry. Give or take a century or two?
What do you think about it? I wouldn't mind reading it.
para . . . .
#Post#: 25263--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: Kerry Date: April 5, 2020, 4:12 pm
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1469.msg25258#msg25258
date=1586091911]
Beats me, Kerry. Give or take a century or two?
What do you think about it? I wouldn't mind reading it.
para . . . .
[/quote]Yes, about two centuries, I think.
We are not told in Genesis 46 how old Kohath was when Israel
moved to Egypt; nor are we are told how old he was when his son
Amram was born, nor how old Amram was when Moses was born. We
are told however how long they lived.
Exodus 6:18 And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and
Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an
hundred thirty and three years.
Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to
wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the
life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
We are also told Moses was 80 when he led Israel out of Egypt.
Now it's clear that Kohath didn't spend all 133 years in Egypt;
and it's clear too that some of Amram's 137 years overlapped
with his father's 133 as would some of Moses' years overlapped
with his father's. If you add 133, 137, and 80, you get 350
years, so the total time in Egypt must be less than that.
The clock would have started to tick on the four hundred years
when Isaac was born; and Isaac was 60 when Jacob was born; and
Jacob was 130 when he went down into Egypt.
Genesis 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand
took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and
Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years
of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil
have the days of the years of my life been, and have not
attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in
the days of their pilgrimage.
That would be 190 years before they went into Egypt, leaving 210
to be spent in Egypt. Interestingly the word "go down" in
Genesis 42:2 -- רדו -- equals 210.
The 430 years mentioned in Exodus 12:40 suggests that another 30
years needs to be added on if we count the years before Isaac
was born.
#Post#: 25271--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: HOLLAND Date: April 6, 2020, 8:26 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1469.msg25263#msg25263
date=1586121137]
Yes, about two centuries, I think.
We are not told in Genesis 46 how old Kohath was when Israel
moved to Egypt; nor are we are told how old he was when his son
Amram was born, nor how old Amram was when Moses was born. We
are told however how long they lived.
Exodus 6:18 And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and
Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an
hundred thirty and three years.
Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to
wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the
life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
We are also told Moses was 80 when he led Israel out of Egypt.
Now it's clear that Kohath didn't spend all 133 years in Egypt;
and it's clear too that some of Amram's 137 years overlapped
with his father's 133 as would some of Moses' years overlapped
with his father's. If you add 133, 137, and 80, you get 350
years, so the total time in Egypt must be less than that.
The clock would have started to tick on the four hundred years
when Isaac was born; and Isaac was 60 when Jacob was born; and
Jacob was 130 when he went down into Egypt.
Genesis 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand
took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and
Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years
of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil
have the days of the years of my life been, and have not
attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in
the days of their pilgrimage.
That would be 190 years before they went into Egypt, leaving 210
to be spent in Egypt. Interestingly the word "go down" in
Genesis 42:2 -- רדו -- equals 210.
The 430 years mentioned in Exodus 12:40 suggests that another 30
years needs to be added on if we count the years before Isaac
was born.
[/quote]
That sounds reasonable to me, Kerry. I wonder which Pharaoh it
was that Moses had dealings with. Knowing the Pharaoh's name
may help to better clinch the number of years as well since it
would help to establish under which Pharaoh the social
disorganization that would have occurred in Egypt after the
slave revolt led by Moses.
#Post#: 25273--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: paralambano Date: April 6, 2020, 2:42 pm
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Kerry - ^
Thanks for your take on it. How is knowing the exact number of
years and details important to you if it is?
para . . . .
#Post#: 25275--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: Kerry Date: April 6, 2020, 3:56 pm
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1469.msg25273#msg25273
date=1586202132]
Kerry - ^
Thanks for your take on it. How is knowing the exact number of
years and details important to you if it is?
para . . . .
[/quote]Knowing the exact number isn't that important; but I
find it interesting when people make assumptions about the text
and say incorrectly that Israel was in bondage in Egypt for four
hundred years. It should be a wake-up call for us if we see can
make incorrect assumptions about the Bible which then lead to
contradictions. It tells me to be more careful.
I find it interesting too that that word adds to 210. I'm
wondering too if 210 connects somehow with the 490 in later
prophecies. Is there a pattern of about 70 years?
#Post#: 25280--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: Kerry Date: April 7, 2020, 4:56 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1469.msg25271#msg25271
date=1586179608]
That sounds reasonable to me, Kerry. I wonder which Pharaoh it
was that Moses had dealings with. Knowing the Pharaoh's name
may help to better clinch the number of years as well since it
would help to establish under which Pharaoh the social
disorganization that would have occurred in Egypt after the
slave revolt led by Moses.
[/quote]I have never seen the subject discussed except with a
lot of speculation. Even historians seem willing to admit
they're speculating.
#Post#: 25286--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: paralambano Date: April 7, 2020, 8:25 am
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Kerry - ^
Do you mean Egypt proper by the 210? There's a reasonable sense
of the 430 if you include Abraham in Egypt (as he was) and as
part of the COI. Some claim that the affliction began with
Ishmael's mockery. His Mum was Egyptian.
In any case, what's the spiritual import of "Egypt" for you?
para . . . .
#Post#: 25297--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: Kerry Date: April 8, 2020, 7:02 am
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1469.msg25286#msg25286
date=1586265916]
Kerry - ^
Do you mean Egypt proper by the 210? There's a reasonable sense
of the 430 if you include Abraham in Egypt (as he was) and as
part of the COI. Some claim that the affliction began with
Ishmael's mockery. His Mum was Egyptian.
In any case, what's the spiritual import of "Egypt" for you?
para . . . .
[/quote]How do you read it, P?
I take Egypt as a metaphor for all the Gentile nations and read
Genesis and Exodus as prophecy. Israel was always meant to
intermingle with the nations to benefit them all, thus
fulfilling the promise made to Abraham that all the nations
would be blessed by his seed. Three exiles were ordained from
the beginning. All forced Israel out of their "comfort zone."
The people of Israel were apt to view themselves as superior and
became standoffish with the Gentiles, failing to fulfill their
mission. When they did that, they were forced into exile.
The exiles into Egypt and Babylon ended, and we see the Jews had
become a proud and standoffish people again in the days of
Jesus. Then they were forced into the third exile.
I do not see the "return" of Israel in its current state as
ordained by God. Instead I think we see the Jews wanting to
retreat into establishing themselves as a proud and standoffish
people. My belief is they should have waited for God to
determine when the third exile should end. Many Jews agree
with me, and they continue to live among "Egypt" so to speak.
Notice that Israel was called out of Egypt when Pharaoh refused
to allow them freedom of religion. He seemed afraid they would
run away if allowed to go into the wilderness to sacrifice. I
don't think they would have. I think they would have made those
sacrifices not to benefit themselves but on behalf of the
Egyptians. I say that because of this:
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded
them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Forbidding freedom of religion meant Israel was not allowed to
intercede with Heaven for Pharaoh and the Egyptians. Things
were at an impasse. Pharaoh's forbidding freedom of religion
also made his government illegitimate. He had the right to rule
in secular matters as he wished; but he stepped over a line.
So then it was time for Israel to leave -- and some Egyptians
went with them, including Pharaoh's daughter who had pulled
Moses from the Nile. I think something similar will happen
sometime in the future on God's timetable not man's -- and
Israel will have fulfilled it mission with Jew and Gentile
entering the kingdom together.
#Post#: 25298--------------------------------------------------
Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt?
By: paralambano Date: April 8, 2020, 2:06 pm
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Kerry - ^
I pretty much agree with what you wrote. I'd add that
spiritually, Egypt of that day stood for sensuousness and that
Israel would have had a spiritual battle on hand had they not
been treated poorly.
Kerry, I'm one who believes that all prophecy has been
fulfilled. My view of current Israel is that it's a secular
state and so I view it secularly. This counting of days holds no
meaning for me as a result.
I'd write more but it looks like I'm loitering perhaps.
Constrained for now.
para . . . .
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