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#Post#: 23405--------------------------------------------------
The Nephilim
By: Giuliano Date: July 26, 2019, 5:37 am
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The nephilim are mentioned specifically twice in the Bible.
Genesis 6:4 There were giants [nephilim] in the earth in those
days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the
daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same
became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants [nephilim], the sons
of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight
as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
My question is how the offspring of these giants survived the
Flood of Noah. Are we reading the following right?
Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both
of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping
thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was
in the dry land, died.
#Post#: 23406--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: HOLLAND Date: July 26, 2019, 8:17 am
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^^^I tend to think of Genesis 1-11, Kerry, in mythopoeic, that
is to say in symbolical terms and not as actual history. I
suspect that the flood narrative involved a tribal memory of
Israel and Judah and that it involved a limited geographical
area and that the people living outside of it were not affected.
There is interesting speculation of the Nephilim as being a
different humanoid species and not as homo sapiens, but this may
be outside the OP. They were clearly unaffected by the flood,
it would seem.
#Post#: 23407--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: Kerry Date: July 26, 2019, 10:04 am
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Thanks for the reply, Holland. What about the Kenites? The
spelling in English could be "Cainites" if translators had been
consistent.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare
Cain [Qayin], and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
And after the Flood of Noah:
Gen 15:19 The Kenites [Qeyniy] and the Kenizzites, and the
Kadmonites,
#Post#: 23408--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: HOLLAND Date: July 26, 2019, 10:40 am
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^^^As I recall, Kerry, these peoples had a historical existence.
I understand that the Kenites and the Kenizzites were
geographically close to the Mediterranean Sea and had conducted
trade upon the waters. How do they relate to the Nephilim?
#Post#: 23409--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: Kerry Date: July 26, 2019, 2:31 pm
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1412.msg23408#msg23408
date=1564155605]
^^^As I recall, Kerry, these peoples had a historical existence.
I understand that the Kenites and the Kenizzites were
geographically close to the Mediterranean Sea and had conducted
trade upon the waters. How do they relate to the Nephilim?
[/quote]It's said Moses' wife was a Kenite. I wonder if that
was the reason Miriam objected to her? Moses met her family
somewhere in Midian, wherever that is. It's hard for me to
pinpoint from that where exactly the Kenites lived since it's
said her father was very unpopular with many of his fellow
Kenites so he lived apart from them somewhat.
So far as I know, there is no connection between the Kenites and
the nephilim except that some of both seemed to have survived
the Flood.[quote author=HOLLAND
link=topic=1412.msg23406#msg23406 date=1564147074]
There is interesting speculation of the Nephilim as being a
different humanoid species and not as homo sapiens, but this may
be outside the OP. They were clearly unaffected by the flood,
it would seem.[/quote]Please go into it in more detail if you
feel like it, Holland.
It appears that Moses did not see these giants as completely
human, at least not in a way that they deserved the right to
live. They were completely evil and incapable of repenting so
they could be saved. Moses either had them killed or driven
out.
Joshua 13:12 All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in
Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the
giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.
My own belief is that some of these giants were still around in
David's day. Goliath comes to mind. I also think David wanted
to see them all dead, although he did not call "nephilim" but
"the wicked" as in:
Psalm 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and
let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul.
Praise ye the Lord.
I don't read that as genocide since I don't see the nephilim as
humans. However let me add since they've all be eradicated from
the earth as a "race of giants," we cannot justify killing
people today on that basis by saying Moses and David did it.
I have other opinions about the nephilim but desire more
certainty or clarity about them. I would be interested in your
input then and anyone else's.
I need to do some more research on what the Jewish tradition
teaches and perhaps too on the ancient myths of the area.
#Post#: 23413--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: witness Date: July 26, 2019, 5:58 pm
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[quote author=Giuliano link=topic=1412.msg23405#msg23405
date=1564137468]
The nephilim are mentioned specifically twice in the Bible.
Genesis 6:4 There were giants [nephilim] in the earth in those
days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the
daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same
became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants [nephilim], the sons
of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight
as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
My question is how the offspring of these giants survived the
Flood of Noah. Are we reading the following right?
Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both
of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping
thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was
in the dry land, died.
[/quote]
The nephilim were the offspring of angels and more than just
humans, but women mostly. In the book of enoch, it states they
also mated with creatures of the earth, probably some equatic,
and those modified correctly were no doubt able to survive the
flood, to continue breeding in a much smaller numbers, but over
time bring the nephilim bloodline back into humanity. Not to
create Giants which were found the weakness of being too heavy
to survive flooding, so other modifications were made, as to why
no more giants that we hear of.
#Post#: 23416--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: Kerry Date: July 27, 2019, 1:36 am
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[quote author=witness link=topic=1412.msg23413#msg23413
date=1564181909]
The nephilim were the offspring of angels and more than just
humans, but women mostly. In the book of enoch, it states they
also mated with creatures of the earth, probably some equatic,
and those modified correctly were no doubt able to survive the
flood, to continue breeding in a much smaller numbers, but over
time bring the nephilim bloodline back into humanity. Not to
create Giants which were found the weakness of being too heavy
to survive flooding, so other modifications were made, as to why
no more giants that we hear of.
[/quote]There is evidence from pagan sources that seem to
agree. Not that I trust their theology that much, but it is
interesting that there are so many stories about their "gods"
having children with human women. Also the Egyptians had
half-human, half-animal creatures.
#Post#: 23420--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: guest6 Date: July 27, 2019, 9:31 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1412.msg23409#msg23409
date=1564169475]
I don't read that as genocide since I don't see the nephilim as
humans. However let me add since they've all be eradicated from
the earth as a "race of giants," we cannot justify killing
people today on that basis by saying Moses and David did it.
[/quote]
There have been people who have said that they've seen these
"Nephilim" like the Native Americans who said that they were
giants, much taller than the average man and with much more
bulk, with six fingers and six toes and had a double row of
teeth. There are older news stories that speak about this.
Supposedly the Smithsonian take the remains of these giants when
they are found and then deny their existence.
Other people say that they've seen them. I doubt that very many
people would believe that someone has seen one of these
"Nephilim" alive in recent years....although there are people
who have seen them. A small number of people. I know this is
true. I would rather not say how I know. Yeah I know. That
sounds like fiction.
"If" I had seen one, I would have been terrified because they're
huge and extremely menacing.
#Post#: 23424--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: George Date: July 27, 2019, 12:15 pm
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This all seems like an episode of ancient aliens. If there truly
are aliens, who is to say they are “created” by the same method
that humanoids were? Whether that be created by a god or evolved
over time from a single cell. It would appear to me that the
author really doesn’t know what had been encountered and instead
is just stating theories in the same way I read each of us have
our individual theories.
#Post#: 23425--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nephilim
By: Kerry Date: July 27, 2019, 2:49 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=1412.msg23424#msg23424
date=1564247741]
This all seems like an episode of ancient aliens. If there truly
are aliens, who is to say they are “created” by the same method
that humanoids were? Whether that be created by a god or evolved
over time from a single cell. It would appear to me that the
author really doesn’t know what had been encountered and instead
is just stating theories in the same way I read each of us have
our individual theories.
[/quote]It may depend on your definition of what an "alien" is.
I'll give my own. I'm not saying it's 100% right.
I believe that life originally evolved on earth under its own
proper spiritual authority. I believe each planet has its own
ruler along with other spirits who help. The problems with
earth began when it was "invaded" by space aliens -- and I don't
necessarily mean aliens with physical bodies. I mean by spirits
without physical bodies (let me call them angels). These came
from more than one place. However a large number came from
what used to be a planet but which got blown to bits in a war.
We can still observe what remains of it in the asteroids.
When they came to earth, they could see that earth was already
populated. The mistake made by the resident angels was allowing
the alien angels to settle on earth. These alien angels
infiltrated earth and corrupted almost everything. This is
described in Genesis 1:2 which really does not say the earth
"was without form and void." It really says the earth "became
without form and void." How long this went on, I've no
theory. In this era too, most of earth's resident angels
became angry and fell, becoming almost like the alien angels
they were fighting with.
Then angels from Venus decided to intervene; and their goal to
restore the proper order to life as it was meant to evolve on
earth. I realize there is more than one way to interpret the
following, but I read it to mean Jesus came to the earth from
elsewhere:
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated
them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the
world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,
but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I have been told and believe that every person native to the
earth has his or her own ally from Venus, someone to help him or
her. Indeed I met a woman who said once casually that she was
from Venus; then when I wanted to talk about it, she denied
saying it. Odd, eh?
There is a blessing that comes from Venus to people on earth.
Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto
you these things in the churches. I am the root and the
offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Needless to say, the people on Venus do not have bodies like
ours. They can get born in bodies on the earth though.
This also meant restoring earth's fallen resident angels to
their proper spots. In the Bible, the angelic band is what was
called Israel later. There are 70 major angels who govern the
various nations. The reason the Jewish Sanhedrin had 70 members
was that they were supposed to intercede for the nations.
Micah 4:5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his
god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever
and ever.
I know this idea will strike many as radical, but Micah draws
the distinction. Earth's resident fallen angels could be called
gods if indeed they proper representatives of the One True God.
Micah is describing how things will be when these fallen ones
are restored.
Note that the conflict between Jacob and Esau is one of who has
spiritual authority. The truth is that Esau had it. Jacob was
to replace him; and he even used trickery to get it, but that
was for the good. Jacob's mission won't be finished until Esau
is redeemed and restored. That angel appeared to him "as a
man" and wrestled with him. The Jews claim (and I believe it)
that it was the Guardian Angel of Esau. We surely can't
believe the Infinite Omnipotent God was wrestling with Jacob,
can we?
The corrupt fallen angels from the planet that got blown to bits
are something else. They don't belong here and never did.
It appears however that both resident and alien angels fell
over time and actually entered human bodies. At first they had
used some technique to experience what sex felt like to humans;
but over time, many became humans themselves. So far as I know,
all of them ceased to have certain powers in the First Century.
Jesus appears to have defeated them in some way. That cleared
the heavens (including the one governing the mind) of a lot of
clutter; and we see a major shift globally in how people think.
I read about that shift in a secular book about Greek
literature. The various angels who were playing at being gods
to get humans to worship them ceased to have the potent power to
cloud minds. It really was global. Many of these so-called
gods then entered human bodies themselves and are among us
today. Paul mentions them.
1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods,
whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords
many,)
I'd say more of them are in the earth than in heaven than in
Paul's day.
I don't expect other people to believe me just because I say so.
Some things you either have to see for yourself or hear about
from people you trust.
It also helps to have memories; and I'll admit people can
invent false memories. While I can remember past lives on this
planet, none go back more than about 2000 years. I can also
remember living on other worlds before I came here. That tells
me I'm not one of the 144,000 who came to this world when Eden
was established.
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