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#Post#: 23060--------------------------------------------------
Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: Kerry Date: June 30, 2019, 12:43 am
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The news a while ago was that the Catholic Church was going to
"study" having married priests in the Amazon because of an acute
shortage of priests. I just found out part of Canada has a
shortage.
HTML https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-americas/2019/06/29/northern-canadian-bishops-paying-close-attention-to-married-priest-discussion/
When bishops convene in Rome this fall to begin discussions
about ordaining married men to serve as priests in remote,
indigenous communities in the Amazon, bishops in northern Canada
will be listening closely.
The Vatican put a discussion about married priests on the agenda
for the Oct. 6-27 Synod of Bishops for the Pan-Amazon region.
The working document for the Rome meeting calls for “ministry
with an Amazonian face” and greater access to the Eucharist in
remote communities that rarely see a priest.
Like the Amazon, Canada’s North faces a severe shortage of
priests and a complete absence of indigenous priests.
I honestly don't understand why things go so slowly. There is
nothing in the doctrines of the Catholic Church about priests
being unmarried. It's a matter of practice only. I would think
they could move a little faster to allow married men to become
priests.
Canada’s bishops have a long history of proposing ordination for
married men, making proposals as far back as 1971. The most
recent Canadian attempt was offered up by Archbishop Sylvain
Lavoie of Keewatin-Le Pas - which includes parts of Manitoba,
Ontario and Saskatchewan. In 2011, he tried to send a long
letter with supporting documentation asking Rome for permission
to ordain married, indigenous clergy.
“Because we had men who were ready, who had formation already,
three years of formation,” said Lavoie, now retired.
But Lavoie could not get his plea past Rome’s then-nuncio to
Canada, Archbishop Pedro Lopez Quintana.
“He basically dissuaded me from even sending it to Rome, so it
never left Canada,” he said.
Lavoie said he is happy to see the discussion revived.
“It’s very encouraging that it might be coming now,” he said.
“It’s all a process. It develops little by little. Things move
slowly in Rome, of course.”
To the archbishop, the logic of ordaining married men in the
circumstances of remote, missionary communities is inescapable.
There are more details about other efforts to get more priests
in Canada, but that example is enough to convince me that Rome
has been dragging its heels. Why would that be? We haven't
even mentioned the sex abuse cases. No one in his right mind
can believe there would be as many priests molesting children
and nuns if marriage was an option.
#Post#: 24025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: HOLLAND Date: September 17, 2019, 7:22 pm
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^^^It could be said, Kerry, that the Catholic Church could die
without its priesthood because that denomination's clergy is
needed to effectuate its sacraments.
It is interesting the response that church's hierarchy has
towards married priests and female priests. They don't want any
of it. Celibacy is the norm they want, and, perhaps, the
homosexuality that seemingly goes with it. A priest dare not
commit the unholy sin of matrimony but must have a lively,
abiding mother love for the Blessed Virgin Mary in all the ways
that they imagine her.
The Catholic Church in many places of the world is in a bad
state now. The money is drying up much like the priesthood is
evaporating.
HTML http://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/Catholic-Priests-Retirement.php
There are 66.6 million parish-connected Catholics in the U.S.
While the number of Catholic parishes has remained rather steady
over the past 50 years (17,637 in 1965 vs. 17,483 in 2014),
there has been a steady decline in the number of priests and men
seeking ordination. By 2019, half of all active priests will be
at the minimum retirement age of 70.
From another source, I learned that the median age of a U.S.
Catholic priest in 1970 was 35 years of age. Bob Dylan was
right. "These times they are a-changing." But the Catholic
Church soldiers on, with their rosaries in hand. It's hard to
figure ... ???
#Post#: 24031--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: Kerry Date: September 18, 2019, 4:04 pm
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^ The situation could be approaching a breaking point, Holland,
with the upcoming "Amazon" synod. There will be discussions
about allowing married men to act as priests in South America;
but it looks as if some bishops want to talk about a lot more
than that. Charges are being hurled back and forth. My guess
is some of the politics has something to do with who the next
Pope will be.
HTML http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/german-bishops-respond-to-vatican-critique-but-documents-show-ongoing-disag
#Post#: 24056--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: HOLLAND Date: September 20, 2019, 5:50 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1403.msg24031#msg24031
date=1568840677]
^ The situation could be approaching a breaking point, Holland,
with the upcoming "Amazon" synod. There will be discussions
about allowing married men to act as priests in South America;
but it looks as if some bishops want to talk about a lot more
than that. Charges are being hurled back and forth. My guess
is some of the politics has something to do with who the next
Pope will be.
HTML http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/german-bishops-respond-to-vatican-critique-but-documents-show-ongoing-disag
[/quote]
I wonder, Kerry, if it's time for the Catholic church to have a
constitutional ecclesiastical monarchy and to have the Pope to
marry to encourage the other Bishops and Priests to get married.
Maybe it will make things better in that church.
The Pope's wife could be called the Popess and she could share
papal authority with her husband. Their children could be
called Popelets and one of them, male or female could be groomed
to take over the throne of Peter upon the death of the Pope and
the Popess. I suspect, in all this family values kind of
lifestyle, homosexuality would finally wane in that church. I
know this sounds fanciful but perhaps it could be a solution.
What do you think?
#Post#: 24060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: Kerry Date: September 21, 2019, 1:54 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1403.msg24056#msg24056
date=1569019815]
I wonder, Kerry, if it's time for the Catholic church to have a
constitutional ecclesiastical monarchy and to have the Pope to
marry to encourage the other Bishops and Priests to get married.
Maybe it will make things better in that church.
The Pope's wife could be called the Popess and she could share
papal authority with her husband. Their children could be
called Popelets and one of them, male or female could be groomed
to take over the throne of Peter upon the death of the Pope and
the Popess. I suspect, in all this family values kind of
lifestyle, homosexuality would finally wane in that church. I
know this sounds fanciful but perhaps it could be a solution.
What do you think?
[/quote]I think they like having so many gay priests. The more
I see the more it looks as if there is a Gay Mafia running a lot
of things.
#Post#: 24061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: guest6 Date: September 21, 2019, 3:22 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1403.msg24060#msg24060
date=1569048890]
I think they like having so many gay priests. The more I see
the more it looks as if there is a Gay Mafia running a lot of
things.
[/quote]
They certainly protect and hide many gay priests. They should be
protecting the most helpless and defenseless which are the
children. Zero tolerance indeed. Those words mean nothing.
#Post#: 24063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: HOLLAND Date: September 21, 2019, 7:36 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1403.msg24060#msg24060
date=1569048890]
I think they like having so many gay priests. The more I see
the more it looks as if there is a Gay Mafia running a lot of
things.
[/quote]
It's likely that that is the case, Kerry. Since celibacy has
went on for centuries, a Gay Mafia could easily exist. I
suspect that change may need to come from the outside. Perhaps
millions of Catholics should become ex-Catholics to downsize
that church and compel it to change its ways.
[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=1403.msg24061#msg24061
date=1569054123]
They certainly protect and hide many gay priests. They should be
protecting the most helpless and defenseless which are the
children. Zero tolerance indeed. Those words mean nothing.
[/quote]
I can agree with that Heartsong. I guess that is why I'm
enchanted with the idea of a Popess and little Popelets playing
on the carpets of the papal apartments at the Vatican. :D
#Post#: 24064--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: Kerry Date: September 21, 2019, 8:20 am
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[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=1403.msg24061#msg24061
date=1569054123]
They certainly protect and hide many gay priests. They should be
protecting the most helpless and defenseless which are the
children. Zero tolerance indeed. Those words mean nothing.
[/quote]The only time they seem to do anything is when a news
organization finds out about something and publishes it. Just
this week, we find out it still going on in the Vatican itself.
Someone talked to the press, and then they took action.
HTML https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/09/17/vatican-to-try-two-priests-for-alleged-abuse-of-altar-boys-in-st-peters-basilica/
Vatican magistrates have decided that one priest accused of
sexually abusing underage altar boys who served in St. Peter’s
Basilica, and another accused of facilitating that abuse, will
be put on trial, according to a statement released Tuesday.
The statement said that the Vatican’s Promoter of Justice has
recommended that Father Gabriele Martinelli stand trial over
charges of sexual abuse, and that Father Enrico Radice also be
tried over charges of covering up that abuse.
“Investigations began in 2017 following news reports in the
press,” the statement said, released late Tuesday Rome time by
the Vatican Press Office.
The Vatican said Pope Francis gave personal permission to
proceed.
“Although the facts in the reports date to years in which the
law in force at the time prevented prosecution because there
hadn’t been a complaint by the injured party within a year,
postponement [of a trial] was made possible due to a special
provision by the pope last July 29, which removed the bar on
proceeding,” the statement said.
The alleged abuse took place at the Pre-seminary of St. Pius X,
an institution located on Vatican grounds that trains altar boys
destined to serve at papal Masses and other liturgies within St.
Peter’s Basilica. Generally speaking, the boys who attend the
pre-seminary are in the Italian equivalent of middle school.
I don't think it wouldn't be happening as much if people were
afraid of being caught. They seem to feel confident they can get
away with it. If no one had gone to the press, it would still
be going on. That's what I think.
#Post#: 24065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: Kerry Date: September 21, 2019, 8:29 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1403.msg24063#msg24063
date=1569069368]
It's likely that that is the case, Kerry. Since celibacy has
went on for centuries, a Gay Mafia could easily exist. [/quote]
What good reason do they have to insist priests be unmarried?
Paul wrote to Timothy that bishops should be married; that no
one should be made a bishop unless he had a wife. If he
couldn't rule his own house, he shouldn't be trusted with a
congregation.
[quote]I suspect that change may need to come from the outside.
Perhaps millions of Catholics should become ex-Catholics to
downsize that church and compel it to change its
ways.[/quote]It's happening in some places. If England didn't
have immigrants, most Catholic churches would be closed. The
same is somewhat true in the USA too. The Catholic Church
depends a lot on Latino immigrants to keep up its numbers; and
the pressure is still on too since second generation Latinos
often become Pentecostals. Even South America is very secular.
The numbers are kept up by places like Africa. Indeed, Africa
supplies priests to the USA.
[quote]I can agree with that Heartsong. I guess that is why I'm
enchanted with the idea of a Popess and little Popelets playing
on the carpets of the papal apartments at the Vatican.
:D[/quote]I don't think it would work that well. Remember when
Popes used to promote their nephews? I think you would get
dynasties that went corrupt quickly.
#Post#: 24070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Married Priests -- What's the Problem?
By: guest6 Date: September 21, 2019, 7:15 pm
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1403.msg24063#msg24063
date=1569069368]
It's likely that that is the case, Kerry. Since celibacy has
went on for centuries, a Gay Mafia could easily exist. I
suspect that change may need to come from the outside. Perhaps
millions of Catholics should become ex-Catholics to downsize
that church and compel it to change its ways.[/Quote]
Catholics could also hit them where it hurts and withdraw all
financial support. The Catholic Church is already hurting
financially with all the lawsuits against them.
[Quote]I can agree with that Heartsong. I guess that is why I'm
enchanted with the idea of a Popess and little Popelets playing
on the carpets of the papal apartments at the Vatican. :D
[/quote]
That's a nice thought. If only that could happen. The Pope
doesn't strike me as one who would want to share his power with
a Popess.
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