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#Post#: 21928--------------------------------------------------
Brexit
By: Kerry Date: March 24, 2019, 9:54 am
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Since I listen to the news on the BBC when delivering
newspapers, I've been hearing a lot about Brexit lately. I
mentioned it to a woman from England. She said she's going to
return soon to live in England. I told her good luck. She also
thought, as I do, that David Cameron was largely at fault for
his foolish promise to hold a referendum.
The whole affair has been poorly managed from the beginning.
The referendum was silly since it asked people to vote for or
against something they didn't know about and couldn't know
about. If I had had to vote on it then, I would have voted to
leave; but with the mess they've made of it, I think now I'd
vote to stay.
First they dithered triggering the leave option. They finally
did and now it's gone on for two years and no one still knows
what Brexit means. Prime Minister May seems ready to have a
mental breakdown. There has been several serious
misunderstandings.
How would I do it?
First of all, I would tell the EU the UK was leaving and on its
own terms. There would be no tariffs at all on goods entering
the UK from the EU. That could change at any time, depending
on what the EU did. This would put the pressure on the EU since
the UK would look accommodating; and any severe tariffs from the
EU on British goods would look mean-spirited. It would mean too
that British people wouldn't have to worry about where their
fresh vegetables were coming from since EU countries could still
sell them as before. EU businesses would like it too. So if a
trade war started, the EU would take the blame.
This would also mean no customs checks on the Irish border at
least on the British side. If the EU wanted to put up
checkpoints, let them. See how popular that would be. If later
there were custom duties, I would permit most businesses to file
reports and pay them online or by mail. Some people would dodge
them, but I think most would comply. As it is, the means to
collect duties on the Irish border or at the Eurochannel simply
don't exist.
I also heard it incorrectly asserted that the British could not
negotiate trade deals with other countries while they were
negotiating the terms of leaving the EU. That was a
misunderstanding. What they are not allowed to do is establish
such trade deals while inside the EU. The current government
has not been talking to other countries that much if at all.
They have missed out on setting up new sources of supply where
they need imports and new markets where they for their exports.
India is eager to sign one. I think many Commonwealth countries
would love having improved trade with the UK. I think they could
cut a good deal with the US.
That's how I would have done it, and maybe that would have
worked. What got done was nothing for about two years, and
nobody seems to know now what's going to happen. Did people
really vote for this? If they knew that the British government
would make such a mess of it, would they have voted to leave?
We'll see what happens; but a lot of people agree with me that
there should be a second referendum.
HTML https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/put-it-to-the-people-march-brexit-second-referendum-london-a8836756.html
A million protesters are estimated to be marching through
central London demanding a second referendum on Brexit,
organisers have said, in one of the biggest demonstrations to be
held in the UK in the 21st century.
The estimate, provided by the People's Vote UK, would make it
the biggest march to be held in the UK since the Iraq War
protest in 2003.
The anti-war demonstration also saw around a million people
march in central London.
#Post#: 21930--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Kerry Date: March 24, 2019, 10:57 am
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In the meantime, Italy has just signed a trade agreement with
China. How can they do that if they're still in the EU? Who
understands these things? I don't. People incorrectly said the
UK wasn't even allowed to talk about trade deals while in the EU
but Italy can do it?
HTML https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/24/china-and-italy-sign-silk-road-project
Italy became the first major Western power to endorse China's
"Belt and Road" infrastructure project (BRI) on Saturday, as the
country looks for ways to revive its struggling economy.
Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte shook hands with Chinese
President Xi Jinping at a signing ceremony after a three-day
trip for the Chinese leader.
Chinese and Italian firms also signed some 10 other deals in the
energy, steel and gas pipeline sectors worth around €5 billion
according to Italian media.
However, the deal has irked Brussels and some pro-EU figures
like French President Emmanuel Macron who see it as helping one
of the bloc's key economic rivals.
It looks like China is trying to bolster itself and also
undermine EU unity. It may succeed however in uniting some of
the EU countries more and strengthening ties with the US. What
the Chinese have done with ports around the world has already
raised red flags according to the South China Morning Post
HTML https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2165341/why-china-buying-ports-worrying-europe.<br
/>
I find it confusing how Italy is allowed to do this.
#Post#: 21934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: paralambano Date: March 24, 2019, 1:29 pm
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Kerry - ^^
The demand for another referendum means that many have actually
learned how difficult leaving means and how complicated things
could be later. This might have some change their minds if it's
voted on again.
^
Germany, Finland, UK, France all have deals with China in the
billions of Euros with Germany tops at about 50 billion Euro.
para . . . .
#Post#: 21940--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Kerry Date: March 24, 2019, 5:35 pm
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1390.msg21934#msg21934
date=1553452147]
Kerry - ^^
The demand for another referendum means that many have actually
learned how difficult leaving means and how complicated things
could be later. This might have some change their minds if it's
voted on again.[/quote]
Polls say if they did a second one, "remain" would win against
"leave."
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Support_for_a_second_referendum
A lot of MPs say, "But the people voted, and we have to honor
the results since that's the democratic way." May said she
"sided with the people" and chastised Parliament for failing to
approve her deal.
What a disaster. First of all, the referendum wasn't kosher
since the High Court ruled it wasn't binding unless Parliament
voted the same way. MPs were cowed into voting against their
own preferences, and it moved forward. Democracy does not
necessarily mean the people vote on everything. Democracy
sometimes means letting the people they elect to office to
decide things. The UK does not have a government that rules by
referendum. Parliament is supposed to do that; and asking
people to vote on something so vague is fantastic.
Cameron had tried to gain concessions from the EU a lot and
failed. I get that part. Thus the referendum could have been
worded better, "If the British government cannot get the
concessions it wants, would you like Parliament vote to leave
the EU?" That would have put the pressure on the EU to give in
on some things, and the PM would have had more flexibility.
[quote]Germany, Finland, UK, France all have deals with China in
the billions of Euros with Germany tops at about 50 billion
Euro.[/quote]It's a mystery to me. I don't think they have
real rules.
What was said when the UK asked for an extension? They said
every member of the EU would have to approve it or it couldn't
happen. If that is true, how could it be true that things
happened which the UK detested but couldn't stop? And if there
is such a rule, it's not even close to being democratic. It's
dangerous in fact. Bribe one country and you can get stall
them all. It's like bribing one juror when you need them to
render a unanimous verdict. I can see not letting a mere
majority make important decisions; but demanding unanimity is
ridiculous.
I also do not know who comes up with the laws of the EU. I read
that the MEP's don't. They debate and vote on them but can't
propose or write them. Can that be right? Committees write
them, but who decides who is on the committees? I don't know.
#Post#: 22976--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Kerry Date: June 22, 2019, 7:49 pm
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The British government is still drifting about like a boat
without a rudder.
The latest sign of incompetence is how long it's taking for the
Tories to decide who the next Prime Minister should be. Why
take one vote one day and then wait to take the next vote? I
would think they'd want to get things under control as quickly
as possible. The number of votes strung out for so long tells
me they're stalling.
The latest bizarre event which may affect the outcome is the
news story about a huge fracas between Boris Johnson and his
girlfriend.
HTML https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9349353/boris-johnson-home-carrie-girlfriend-police/
BORIS Johnson’s bid for No10 is in chaos after police dashed to
his flat following a blazing row between him and his girlfriend.
A neighbour who heard screaming, shouting and plate-smashing
just after midnight yesterday called 999 over fears for Carrie
Symonds, 31.
Johnson’s partner Carrie shouted “get off me” and “get out of my
flat” during a bust-up at their home, it was claimed last night.
The would-be Prime Minister, 55, lives with PR guru Carrie, 31,
at a flat in South London.
One neighbour said they heard what appeared to be an angry
confrontation and recorded it because they feared for Carrie’s
safety.
In the recording, Mr Johnson can allegedly be heard refusing to
leave the flat and telling his girlfriend to “get off my f***ing
laptop” before a loud crash is heard.
Carrie then reportedly told him he had ruined a sofa with red
wine and added: “You just don’t care for anything because you’re
spoilt.
“You have no care for money or anything.”
The neighbour said: “There was a smashing sound of what sounded
like plates.
They both lied when the police arrived.
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home
The neighbour said that after becoming concerned they knocked on
the door but received no response. “I [was] hoping that someone
would answer the door and say ‘We’re okay’. I knocked three
times and no one came to the door.”
The neighbour decided to call 999. Two police cars and a van
arrived within minutes, shortly after midnight, but left after
receiving reassurances from both the individuals in the flat
that they were safe.
When contacted by the Guardian on Friday, police initially said
they had no record of a domestic incident at the address. But
when given the case number and reference number, as well as
identification markings of the vehicles that were called out,
police issued a statement saying: “At 00:24hrs on Friday, 21
June, police responded to a call from a local resident in [south
London]. The caller was concerned for the welfare of a female
neighbour.
“Police attended and spoke to all occupants of the address, who
were all safe and well. There were no offences or concerns
apparent to the officers and there was no cause for police
action.”
So the police also lied at first.
The neighbour said they recorded the altercation from inside
their flat out of concern for Symonds. On the recording, heard
by the Guardian, Johnson can be heard refusing to leave the flat
and telling Symonds to “get off my fucking laptop” before there
is a loud crashing noise.
Symonds is heard saying Johnson had ruined a sofa with red wine:
“You just don’t care for anything because you’re spoilt. You
have no care for money or anything.”
The neighbour said: “There was a smashing sound of what sounded
like plates. There was a couple of very loud screams that I’m
certain were Carrie and she was shouting to ‘get out’ a lot. She
was saying ‘get out of my flat’ and he was saying no. And then
there was silence after the screaming. My partner, who was in
bed half asleep, had heard a loud bang and the house shook.”
This does not sound like someone who should be trusted with the
future of the United Kingdom if you ask me.
Johnson left his wife, Marina Wheeler, last year and began a
relationship with Symonds, who has been credited with
revitalising his appearance and approach to politics. She was
part of his team when he publicly launched his campaign for the
Tory leadership earlier this month.
In recent weeks the couple have been sharing a flat in a
converted Victorian house. It has been reported that they intend
to move into Downing Street together if he is elected leader.
Wheeler, by the way, initiated the divorce saying he was
cheating on her by some reports. He was. His first marriage
got "dissolved" and he then married Wheeler a few weeks later.
A child was born shortly after that; and in 2009 he fathered a
child out of wedlock and tried to have a court quash the news.
Here he is, dodging questions. Odds are however he likely will
be the next PM. He talks about honoring commitments and keeping
promises. . . in politics, but it's obvious he doesn't do those
in his personal life with people he said he cared about.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqIG9NPKHVw
#Post#: 23013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Kerry Date: June 25, 2019, 9:38 am
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The neighbor who called the police is a "leftie" who doesn't
like Johnson or Brexit. Boris Johnson and his girlfriend won't
be returning to that house. Who knows where they'll live? He
would get housing if he becomes PM, but what if he doesn't?
HTML https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9354092/boris-johnson-furious-partner-carrie-symonds-stitch-up-anti-brexit/
A source in the camp of Tory leadership front-runner Boris said:
“The local hatred to Boris and Carrie has been ramped up
recently. That’s why they feel it’s a stitch-up.
“Carrie is now really frightened and cannot believe this has
happened over such a minor matter.
“She and Boris will not be going back there as they are too
worried about the hostility they faced.
Anti-Boris posters around his and Carrie's neighbourhood are
decorated with the EU flag and say: 'We’d rather endure him as
our neighbour than our Prime Minister'.
“They know Eve and her partner — and Eve has given Boris the
finger on at least one occasion in the street.”
They are really that afraid? Well, don't be smashing the china
and screaming so loud that the neighbors call the cops! Is
Carrie really so frightened by the neighbors? I'd think she'd
be more afraid of Boris. He's a big man. That brings up
another question. Doesn't she think Boris would defend her if
the leftie neighbors threw china at her?
They're worried about hostility? Give me a break. Anyone who
wants to be Prime Minister better be able to take a lot more
hostility than having neighbors call the police on you or acting
immature. If they can't take the stress, get out of politics.
#Post#: 23383--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Kerry Date: July 23, 2019, 6:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Brexit seems to have the British government stunned and unable
to do anything.
I was astonished to hear that three days after Iran seized the
British ship, some security council was going to meet to decide
what to do. Most governments have thought things like this
through and devised plans just in case they need them. It took
the British three days to have a meeting just to discuss this?
The Trump administration has complicated the situation too since
the UK are not interested in enforcing the sanctions the US
imposed but instead were trying to devise ways to get around
them. They are still reluctant to be too cooperative with the
US, fearing it will alienate Iran even more if the UK is seen as
part of an international effort to impose Trump's sanctions on
Iran. The British seizure of the Iranian oil being shipped to
Syria was part of EU sanctions on Syria, or so they said.
How the British chose Boris Johnson to be the next Prime
Minister also astonished me. I asked myself, "Is that really
legal, even under their system?" I thought when they needed a
new PM, the Queen met with someone and asked him or her to try
to form a new government. The prospective PM then would try to
get at least a majority votes in Parliament. If unable to get
them from his own party, he would seek support from other
parties to put together a coalition government.
This case is different, of course, in that there was already a
Conservative government. The Conservative Party apparently has
assumed that their coalition partners will continue their
support of the coalition and thus support anyone they put up to
be Prime Minister. While this may be legal according to
procedures, it seems a dubious way to elect a new Prime Minister
to me. If the May government was formed by consulting other
parties, why should the Conservatives decide on their own who
the next PM will be? I expect that sooner or later there will
be a motion of no confidence; and it wouldn't surprise me if
Johnson can not get a majority of votes in Parliament to remain
PM.
HTML https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49084605
Boris Johnson has been elected new Conservative leader in a
ballot of party members and will become the next UK prime
minister.
He beat Jeremy Hunt comfortably, winning 92,153 votes to his
rival's 46,656.
So under 150,000 party members got to decide the fate of Great
Britain and who the next Prime Minister would be? I don't
think anyone could argue that they have the right to elect who
their new party leader would be; but isn't it somewhat arrogant
and unwise to believe they have the right to decide who the next
Prime Minister would be?
I don't know enough about British history to know if there is a
precedent for this; but it seems to me they often make up the
rules as they go along. If all power resides with Parliament,
I'd think Parliament would be picking the Prime Ministers, not a
party conference.
#Post#: 23498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Rita Date: July 31, 2019, 8:10 am
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Hi Kerry,
It's just how this happens if a general election is not due and
a prime minister decides to step down, that's how Thereasa may
became prime minister - David Cameron made the mess, then walked
away. Pretty sure we will have a general election in the next
year, but doubt it will happen before Brexit is sorted. It's
been a stupid mess all the way through- parliament have acted
like children.
I think it's been such a distraction, hence why nothing was down
straight away when things kicked off with the oil tanker being
siezed. The ministers were too busy ' in fighting ' to take
responsibility for things going on elsewhere. It's been like
that for the past two years.
I am totally fed up with the whole issue now, I voted to leave -
but am still skeptical that it will ever happen.
I don't like Jeremy Corbyn either, so if we had a general
election I haven't got a clue who I would vote for.
Many ' older ' people think that Boris is the best thing since
sliced bread !! ( my dad is one of them )
Time will tell
Rita
#Post#: 23504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Kerry Date: July 31, 2019, 1:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Rita link=topic=1390.msg23498#msg23498
date=1564578629]
Hi Kerry,
It's just how this happens if a general election is not due and
a prime minister decides to step down, that's how Thereasa may
became prime minister - David Cameron made the mess, then walked
away.[/quote]It's similar, but I thought Cameron had a majority
in Parliament when he resigned. He botched things terribly, not
wanting to have Parliament do its job of making decisions and
may have gotten that majority by promising to have a vote on
Brexit. (Am I remembering things wrong? I thought he had a
majority in Parliament.) Then after the Brexit vote, he
resigned; and since the Conservatives had a majority, it made
sense (to me anyway) that they could decide May would be the
next PM. Then in a great miscalculation, thinking she could
strengthen her hand, she called a snap election -- with the
dismal results that she needed to go begging to the DUP to form
a government.
That DUP connection is now haunting Johnson. In public
everything looks as if the DUP is firmly behind Johnson, but
what was that hush-hush meeting he had with them about? Now
there's talk about the British government taking over the
Northern Ireland government. I think the DUP is pressuring
Johnson behind closed doors; and if they don't get what they
want, they can bring down the government. He's in a terrible
spot. (Throwing china won't help him. ;))
[quote]Pretty sure we will have a general election in the next
year, but doubt it will happen before Brexit is sorted. It's
been a stupid mess all the way through- parliament have acted
like children. [/quote]I think you're right. Too many MPs are
more interested in their own political careers than they are in
the future welfare of the UK. Indeed I think Johnson helped
undermine May because he saw that as a path to power.
[quote]I think it's been such a distraction, hence why nothing
was down straight away when things kicked off with the oil
tanker being siezed. The ministers were too busy ' in fighting '
to take responsibility for things going on elsewhere. It's been
like that for the past two years.
I am totally fed up with the whole issue now, I voted to leave -
but am still skeptical that it will ever happen.[/quote]
So many lies got told. I think leaving could have been fairly
fast and relatively easily; but it would have required boldness
on the part of the government. May never seemed to understand
how much power she actually had if she wanted to use it. She
kept going to the EU and almost looking like a beggar to me.
She didn't seem to "get it" that much of the problem was over
British sovereignty; she seemed almost brainwashed into thinking
she had to strike a deal with the EU.
She could have announced no deal was reached, so the UK would be
leaving without a deal. There is no law saying that the UK MUST
impose tariffs on anything. All that talk about reverting to
WTO standards was nonsense. She could have said, "We're not
going to put tariffs on goods coming into the UK from the EU.
It's up to the EU now what they want to do about British goods
going into the EU. If they impose tariffs on us, we'll have to
consider tariffs back; but it's not what we want." What would
the Europeans have done about that?
That would have solved the Irish border situation too in large
part. If the EU wanted to control that border to impose
tariffs, they caused the problem. If the EU wanted huge piles
of paperwork to go with every shipment across the border, let
them do it. I don't think the Irish (on either side of the
border) would have liked that. [quote]I don't like Jeremy Corbyn
either, so if we had a general election I haven't got a clue who
I would vote for. [/quote]I thnk he's almost frightening.
[quote]Many ' older ' people think that Boris is the best thing
since sliced bread !! ( my dad is one of them )
Time will tell
Rita
[/quote]I'll admit Boris has a charming way about him; but if we
can believe the press, he also has a nasty side, throwing china
at his girlfriend -- or was she throwing it at him? He's also
a very big liar. It doesn't make sense to trust the
government to someone who doesn't tell you the truth.
Did you also know that he gave up his American citizenship
because he didn't want to pay the taxes the US government
expected? He's so self-centered. I was bemused when I saw his
jacket emblazoned with "Prime Minister". Goodness, did he
really think people might not know who he is without that
jacket?
I was also not impressed when he replaced several ministers
because he didn't see them as being enough in favor of Brexit.
HTML https://time.com/5636129/boris-johnson-cabinet-guide/
By the time night fell on Boris Johnson’s first day as British
Prime Minister, he had got rid of more than half of his cabinet
of senior ministers. Most of them had been fired; some resigned
before they were pushed.
By Wednesday evening, each of the four so-called “great offices
of state”—prime minister, chancellor of the exchequer, home
secretary and foreign secretary—had a new occupant. Johnson also
elevated a controversial political strategist to become his most
senior advisor.
It was a sign he intends to run the country very differently to
his predecessor Theresa May. She had precariously balanced her
cabinet between the “remain” and “leave” sides of the Brexit
divide in her ruling Conservative Party. But she was eventually
forced to resign after failing to pass her Brexit deal (which
both sides had strongly criticized) into law.
What does it matter what various secretaries think about Brexit?
I think the person running education quit too. If someone is
the best person to be in charge of education, who cares what
they think about Brexit? The various members of the cabinet
need to be doing their jobs, not being yes-men for Boris' views
on Brexit.
I keep hoping things work out right, but Boris Johnson doesn't
inspire confidence in me.
#Post#: 23515--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit
By: Justaname Date: July 31, 2019, 6:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Rita link=topic=1390.msg23498#msg23498
date=1564578629]
I am totally fed up with the whole issue now, I voted to leave -
but am still skeptical that it will ever happen.
I don't like Jeremy Corbyn either, so if we had a general
election I haven't got a clue who I would vote for.
Many ' older ' people think that Boris is the best thing since
sliced bread !! ( my dad is one of them )
Time will tell
Rita
[/quote]
Hi Rita...I heard that Boris says he will just walk from away
and not mess around back and forth like Mrs May...I hope he has
time to do that. If I still lived there I would vote to
leave...I remember crying on the day England 'sold out ' and
joined it... It was the beginning of the end.
But its not just England...it is every country ...the boot is
in to bring us all down, to make way for the WWO ...
It always has been the plan...but 'they' needed to divide and
conquer because our countries were too string...
Canada has been brought to its knees by the idiot child that we
have...
Whatever happens , I don't have the faith to believe that any of
our countries can 'rise from the ashes'. :(
But, God knows, and I believe He is in control ( as in He has
stepped back , folded His hands, and is waiting to see what mess
man can do of the world...) then He will say - " Ready or not ,
Here I come!! " :)
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