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#Post#: 19890--------------------------------------------------
The Word Became Flesh
By: Kerry Date: August 31, 2018, 6:47 am
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John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and
we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the
Father,) full of grace and truth.
Before going on other things, note that "only begotten" is an
inaccurate translation. The word "monogenes" means one of a
kind. It would be better translated as "only."
Luke 7:12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold,
there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother,
and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
Luke 8:42 For he had one only daughter, about twelve years of
age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged
him.
What does the verse mean? First notice that Genesis describes
things, God does not speak during the creation. The creation
was silent.
He speaks during the seven days; and things are made or formed
as a result. The phrase, "seven days of creation," does not
appear in Genesis, being an invention of theologians. The word
"create" is used three times: First of creation, then on the
fourth day when the animals of the sea and land appear, and
finally of man.
The word for "create" in Hebrew involves the imagination. God
"created" the heavens and the earth out of nothing -- by an act
of His Will using His imagination. Saying "make" of animals
which have souls or of "man" who has both soul and spirit might
give the wrong impression that soul and spirit are material
things. To understand properly, the reader must use his own
imagination.
So let us backtrack to verse 1 now.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth.
John's use of the exact same phrase is probably significant.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
God was not speaking "in the beginning." The Word had not yet
gone forth out into creation. When God speaks that the Word
goes forth or emanates. Note too that the verse is in the past
tense. The Word, prior to being spoken, "was with" God and "was
God". We should not jump to conclusions and think that when
the Word got spoken and went forth, it remained with God and
remained being God. No, it went forth.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not
any thing made that was made.
Made, not created. Do not confuse the two. There is God the
Creator of all that is, and there is His Maker -- as in:
Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and
his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and
concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom are all things, and we by him.
Get the idea of the seven days of creation out of your mind.
Things were "made" on six days; and those things were produced
by the Word of God going forth.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my
mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish
that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I
sent it.
God did not create light! It was formed or fashioned out of the
creation.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not.
For the record, note please that Genesis does not necessarily
say "God" was walking in the Eden. It probably says something
even harder to grasp, the Voice of God was walking.
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in
the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid
themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees
of the garden.
Now let us skip forward to Jesus' conversation with Satan.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall
not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out
of the mouth of God.
Was Jesus talking about himself there as the "Word of God"? Was
he saying he was independent of the Father and could live as the
Word? Hardly.
There are two reasons, I think, that's it appropriate to call
Jesus "the Word." First he heard the Voice of God perfectly and
understood it perfectly, and then obeyed perfectly. When God
said, "Let there be Light," the Word of God became manifested
in the Light. It was the Word in manifestation.
The second reason is that Jesus, having heard and obeyed the
Words of the Father, was equipped to speak those Words himself.
Human beings, even the most spiritually deaf ones who had no
hope of hearing the Father for themselves, could hear the Words
of the Father when Jesus spoke them.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of
myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I propose now that the life of Jesus as given to us in the
Gospels can be compared to Genesis 1. We can see how, step by
step, he obeyed the Words of God, making the Word shape the
reality of his being. That's why he told Satan what he did. He
wasn't going to try to use shortcuts. He would go step by step,
obeying and manifesting in his person, in his flesh, "every word
that proceeds from the mouth of God."
Day 1: Let there be light shows how he incarnated in a human
body. Most people, when born, lose the spiritual connection to
their "stars." Jesus did not lose his. Most of us lose all
memory of how we relate to Heaven, have no idea who our Guardian
Angel is, where our Star is, etc. The Star of Bethlehem,
being a spiritual star, was Jesus himself as he appears in
Heaven.
Do not idly think the Star of Bethlehem was some star men could
see in the sky. Herod couldn't see it. The wise men could, but
they had spiritual sight. Herod was spiritually blind. And
physical stars do not come to rest over houses. It was the
spiritual star Balaam predicted.
Numbers 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him,
but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a
Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of
Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
It was a truly extraordinary thing for a child to be born
without losing the connection with Heaven; and it was equally
extraordinary that Jesus did not lose that connection . . .
until shortly before the crucifixion. Most of us can be like
radios fading in and out. Jesus was always tuned in, never
losing that connection.
God said let there be light. Jesus heard and obeyed -- and
became a light for us all.
#Post#: 19912--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: Mary Date: September 2, 2018, 2:44 pm
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Yes Jesus was never disconnected from the father, because he had
no sin in him. Jesus said "my father never leaves me because I
always do what pleases him" he was born if the father in the
womb and never left him, even on the cross although many seem to
believe that the father turned his back on him there. The father
would never forsake Jesus as he always lived my his will. Jesus
was dead to the flesh and alive in the Spirit, never sinning and
always obeying the commandments he had been given of the father,
so the father would never ever leave him.
We are sinners, those who belong to God are only being saved
through faith by God's grace IF they remain in his goodness. And
we have to die to self, be put to death by the power of the
Spirit through Christ. And as we die and our old life is put
away, the life of Christ is made manifest in and through us as
we live by the will of God and endure and keep our faith to the
end and we then truly follow Jesus. If we are not willing to
deny ourselves and take up our cross, then we are not worthy of
Christ Jesus. Those who truly follow Jesus and walk in the
Spirit, partake in his sufferings and walk as he walked and obey
the commandments of God.
#Post#: 19913--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: Kerry Date: September 2, 2018, 3:05 pm
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Hi Mary and welcome to the forum,
What do you make of the two verses which indicate the Father had
deserted Jesus?
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud
voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being
interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
He's quoting Psalm 22, of course:
Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art
thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in
the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of
Israel.
I believe this "forsaking" was a necessary step for Jesus before
he could be elevated.
#Post#: 19916--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: Mary Date: September 2, 2018, 4:10 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1356.msg19913#msg19913
date=1535918759]
Hi Mary and welcome to the forum,
What do you make of the two verses which indicate the Father had
deserted Jesus?
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud
voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being
interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
He's quoting Psalm 22, of course:
Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art
thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in
the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of
Israel.
I believe this "forsaking" was a necessary step for Jesus before
he could be elevated.
[/quote]
Hello, and thank you for the welcome, I believe that he was
quoting the 22 Psalm, many of the Jews would have known that
Psalm so when he quoted that sentence, they would have realised
what they did to him was in that Psalm and they would see that
what they did to him was foretold in the scriptures.
I know God never forsook Jesus because Jesus prayed to him
asking him to forgive them because he said they know not what
they do, he wouldn't be praying if he thought the father had
left him. And he said, "father into thy hands I commend my
Spirit." Then he gave up the ghost. So he knew that the father
could hear him, and that the father was with him.
The father would never forsake or leave Jesus because Jesus
lived by his will, and he'll never forsake or leave us if we are
living by his will also.
#Post#: 19918--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: KerimF Date: September 2, 2018, 7:13 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1356.msg19913#msg19913
date=1535918759]
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud
voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being
interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
He's quoting Psalm 22, of course:
Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art
thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in
the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of
Israel.
[/quote]
As you will see, there were two important reasons for this to
happen:
[1] As we know, at Jesus time people were expecting from Jesus
to play the ancient predictions of Prophets (and this was one of
them). So in early years after Jesus, his loud cry on the cross
was, to many people, among the clear signs that He is God's
Word.
[2] The Father and Jesus decided since before Creation not to
deform Jesus flesh on the cross. The norm, at that time, was
cutting the two legs of a criminal in order to speed up his
death, right after the end of the execution ceremony. So to
avoid cutting the legs of Jesus on the cross, Jesus flesh had to
look as being dead before the arrival of the Roman soldiers to
do this job. And Jesus cried loudly (the way it is described) to
signal his surrounding of his early death and let some blood and
water be out of his pierced side as a solid confirmation of his
death.
#Post#: 19925--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: paralambano Date: September 3, 2018, 7:23 am
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Kerry -
The my God, my God as I understand it is the experience of dying
for one who always had Light/Life = God with Him. Jesus had to
die like a man to demonstrate that He had power over apparent
death as we all eventually do by Christ-mind. Like darkness has
no substance as the apparent absence of light, so too death
apparently as the hypothetical absence of Light/God.
Ol' peanut-gallery para . . . .
#Post#: 19929--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: Kerry Date: September 3, 2018, 10:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mary link=topic=1356.msg19916#msg19916
date=1535922618]
Hello, and thank you for the welcome, I believe that he was
quoting the 22 Psalm, many of the Jews would have known that
Psalm so when he quoted that sentence, they would have realised
what they did to him was in that Psalm and they would see that
what they did to him was foretold in the scriptures.
I know God never forsook Jesus because Jesus prayed to him
asking him to forgive them because he said they know not what
they do, he wouldn't be praying if he thought the father had
left him.[/quote]
That Psalm didn't apply? Why quote it then?
Look at the time sequence. Asking for the soldiers to be
forgiven occurred at the third hour. He quoted Psalm 22 at the
ninth hour. I read the passage to mean he hadn't been forsaken
earlier at the parting of his garments.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his
garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
- - -
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
[quote]And he said, "father into thy hands I commend my Spirit."
Then he gave up the ghost. So he knew that the father could hear
him, and that the father was with him. [/quote]Reflect on this.
Haven't you ever prayed and felt as if no one was listening? I
have. I read this prayer that like. Jesus' faith in God meant
God would hear the prayer, even if Jesus felt deserted.
[quote]The father would never forsake or leave Jesus because
Jesus lived by his will, and he'll never forsake or leave us if
we are living by his will also.[/quote]
Two points here.
The first is that God doesn't owe us anything. Even if it were
possible for us to live perfectly sinless lives, God wouldn't
owe it to us to grant us immortality or anything else. We
trust that God is both Loving and Just. We have faith in Him
that He will do as He says. When it comes down to it however,
we do not yet know what will happen when we are judged. God
will the Judge, not us. We may think we've been faithful
servants and God owes us something, including the "gift" of
immortality; but it is a gift. It is not something God owes us.
It was not something God owed Jesus.
We cannnot judge, cannot presume to know fully how God will
judge us. It's up to Him totally. No bargaining, no debating,
no discussing.
I'm guessing that you're relying on:
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and
be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will
never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
We can hope that this is true; but God is still God and we are
not. We cannot act as our own judge.
I point out too that this verse in Hebrews is citing Deuteronomy
when Israel was at war.
Deuteronomy 31:3 The Lord thy God, he will go over before thee,
and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou
shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as
the Lord hath said.
4 And the Lord shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og,
kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he
destroyed.
5 And the Lord shall give them up before your face, that ye may
do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have
commanded you.
6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of
them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he
will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight
of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go
with this people unto the land which the Lord hath sworn unto
their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit
it.
8 And the Lord, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be
with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear
not, neither be dismayed.
Things may not work out the way we expect.
Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the
inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the
inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Lastly let me talk about the impurity of motive if we do good
deeds in order to get something from God. I think most
Christians begin by trying to "save their lives" -- trying to
save their own skins -- trying to avoid punishment by God and
trying to get a reward.
As we progress, God may test us. It may look as if He's not
looking. Maybe He won't reward us the way we hope and believe.
Would we continue to do good then? Jesus did. Even if God
hid His Face from him, even if God wasn't answering him, Jesus
still resolved to do the right thing just for the sake of doing
the right thing -- of doing the Will of the Father even if there
wasn't anything in it for Jesus -- even if he felt forsaken.
Some call this the Dark Night of the Soul.
Jesus could feel this test was coming. That is why he prayed
earlier to let "this cup" pass from him. Many people may read
that prayer to mean Jesus was trying to avoid being crucified.
I don't. He knew he would be, he had predicted it, and he was
willing to go through with it. What could cause Jesus to fear
or want to escape? I think his relationship with the Father
was the most important thing in the universe to him; and he saw
losing that connection would be the worst thing that could
happen to him.
The "cup" he was referring to was when the "grape" is harvested,
pressed and wine put into the cup. Jesus did not want to feel
cut off from God. Yet the severing of the grape from the vine
was inevitable and necessary. Every ounce of life -- everything
he had, spirit, heart, mind, soul and body -- was offered up,
given back to God -- to be used as God saw fit. There was no
promise of any reward. Self as self (the way we think of it)
ceased to exist. All concepts of self were offered up.
We should not believe that Jesus came to live on the earth in
order to earn some spiritual position or to prove something
about himself, or to glorify himself. No, he came to suffer
and to die to show love for God and for men. Every ounce of his
being went into it.
If we say Jesus could rely on the Father's not forsaking him,
then he had a crutch. If we think Jesus was concerned about
himself and his position, I think we see the end of that
completely when he prayed for the cup to pass from him, saying,
"nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." Let us
not say Jesus was not tempted in this way, not tempted to cut
and run when he knew God would probably soon ask him to give up
everything including all concepts of "self." That "self" had to
be offered up. Jesus would have been tempted to cut and run
since:
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be
touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all
points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
There are people who teach that Jesus knew for certain he would
be promoted and raised up in glory. I think he guessed it and
he seems to have predicted it. But that's not why he did what
he did. We should never believe he allowed himself to be
crucified knowing he'd be elevated later for it. That would
have been self-promotion. He was not trying to get promoted!
Luke 14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden,
when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto
them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in
the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden
of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this
man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room;
that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee,
Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the
presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that
humbleth himself shall be exalted.
We do not obtain the gift of immortality by going after it. The
only way to obtain life is by being willing to lose it. As you
correctly pointed out, Jesus' followers are told to pick up
their own crosses. If we think we can rely on Jesus' cross
alone to save us, we've missed the point.
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it:
and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
The idea that God will never forsake us is, I think, most
probably true unless we forsake Him. I believe it's true, I
have faith that it's true -- but I do not know, and I also do
presume to count on it. God will do what He wishes concerning
my fate. I may obey my conscience the best I know how; and
maybe God will still not wish to grant me immortality or any
other gift. He doesn't owe it to me. I can hope, but I can't
presume to know.
God also does not owe me or anyone else a connection with
Heaven. We believe that God loves all men and women and wishes
to have relationships with all -- but He doesn't owe us
anything. If our motive in becoming Christians was to save our
own skins or to feel that we have special relationships with God
or with Jesus, we may be mostly on the right track but still
need to drop the selfish motive.
What would you do if there was no God? Would you still strive
to be good and loving -- without the expectation of some reward?
If you want to be good and loving just for the fun of it,
because you enjoy it and detest the feelings you have when
you're bad and unloving, that's all the reward you need. If
you would choose good over evil even if there was no God
hovering over you to punish or to reward, then your nature has
become like God's. You are good because that is what you are.
It may be foolish to imagine a situation that can't exist; but I
believe if the Father disappeared, Jesus would continue to love
others. The Father doesn't need am overlord over Him to get
Him to do the right thing -- it's His Nature to do the right
thing. The same is true of Jesus. He did not obey the Father
out of fear or obligation. He obeyed because the Father was
right -- Loving and Just.
The question may be if we can reach the same position of wanting
to do good because that's our nature -- not to get rewards or
avoid punishments. If we say we want to do the Will of the
Father in order to be made immortal, there is still some work
to be done to make us more loving people. We should be like
Jesus, wanting to do the right thing, even if we feel the Father
has forsaken us.
#Post#: 19930--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: Kerry Date: September 3, 2018, 10:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=KerimF link=topic=1356.msg19918#msg19918
date=1535933628]
As you will see, there were two important reasons for this to
happen:
[1] As we know, at Jesus time people were expecting from Jesus
to play the ancient predictions of Prophets (and this was one of
them). So in early years after Jesus, his loud cry on the cross
was, to many people, among the clear signs that He is God's
Word.
[2] The Father and Jesus decided since before Creation not to
deform Jesus flesh on the cross. The norm, at that time, was
cutting the two legs of a criminal in order to speed up his
death, right after the end of the execution ceremony. So to
avoid cutting the legs of Jesus on the cross, Jesus flesh had to
look as being dead before the arrival of the Roman soldiers to
do this job. And Jesus cried loudly (the way it is described) to
signal his surrounding of his early death and let some blood and
water be out of his pierced side as a solid confirmation of his
death.
[/quote]No bones broken; but I ask how many wounds Isaac had.
When Abraham wielded the knife, did it puncture the skin and
make a scar? I think so. Jesus would have had five wounds,
two on his hands, two on his feet and one in his side. It's
said that Isaac was tied so tightly that the ropes scarred his
hands and feet for life. If Abraham scarred him with a knife,
that would have made five wounds for him too.
#Post#: 19931--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: Kerry Date: September 3, 2018, 11:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1356.msg19925#msg19925
date=1535977435]
Kerry -
The my God, my God as I understand it is the experience of dying
for one who always had Light/Life = God with Him. Jesus had to
die like a man to demonstrate that He had power over apparent
death as we all eventually do by Christ-mind. Like darkness has
no substance as the apparent absence of light, so too death
apparently as the hypothetical absence of Light/God.
Ol' peanut-gallery para . . . .
[/quote]Can one face the "apparent" darkness and make Light
appear out of it? For me, the "created" darkness had the
potential for Light within it. The Light was there but
concealed, waiting to be summoned forth by the Divine Word, "Let
there be Light."
There are illusions involved, to be sure. We humans can be like
little children, afraid of things which are the "absence" of
something more than anything real. If the truth be known
however, what we perceive as the "absence" of something
conceals something real and valuable that is waiting to be
revealed.
Isaiah 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew
not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will
make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight.
These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.
Let me go on a bit more about Light. We may be tempted to see
Light as entering the world at the conception and birth of Jesus
as applying only to him personally. It's more than that. By
means of the Word, the Divine Light was made available to all
men.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that
cometh into the world.
Some may let the Light go out. Others may try to hoard it; but
Jesus told his disciples to let the Light they had receive
shine.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may
see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Who does not see the Light?
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into
the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because
their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither
cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds
may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
In short, men who love evil can be in the presence of Light but
not perceive it. The person who seeks it can find it if he is
willing to change his ways and turn from his evil works. At
first, this person may not be sure there is a God, or what kind
of God exists if there is one. I think of this person as
turning around and around, looking and seeking -- is there "a
God" out there somewhere? Is so where? If he has repented of
his evil intentions and wishes to change for the better, his
turning around will be rewarded sooner or later -- and he will
receive that ray of Light which tells him for sure God is real.
For the sinner, repentance can be associated with the appearance
of Light. That is not to say, of course, that this sinner is
immediately transformed into a perfect being. No, he still has
work to do reforming himself; and if his intention is to erase
all flaws which injure other people, if his intention is to
recapture the nature of the innocent child, he will continue to
receive more Light as he goes along. There is the initial type
of repentance, and there is a continuing process.
I also believe it's critical to reach the point where we see the
"Inner Light" concealed in "the sinner." All people have the
potential to receive Light and let their Light shine. What we
call "sinners" are potential saints. If we can see them as the
potential saints they really are, it helps dispel the illusions
they have of themselves as "hopeless sinners." If we can see
the Good in them and see the potential Light, we can help call
it forth. We are saying along with God and Jesus, "Let there be
Light" by seeing them as they really are -- children of God with
illusions. We see darkness only? God can be dwelling there
without our perceiving it.
2 Chronicles 6:1 Then said Solomon, The Lord hath said that he
would dwell in the thick darkness.
And yet when the prayer was over:
7:1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came
down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the
sacrifices; and the glory of the Lord filled the house.
The same principle applies to Man, the proper Temple of God. We
should not confuse the Temple of God with God or the Glory of
God in the Temple with God. No earthly Temple of stone and no
earthly man or woman as the Temple could possibly contain God
Himself; but Temples can be filled with His Glory.
6:18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth?
behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee;
how much less this house which I have built!
#Post#: 19935--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Word Became Flesh
By: paralambano Date: September 4, 2018, 11:25 am
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Kerry -
[quote]There are illusions involved, to be sure. We humans can
be like little children, afraid of things which are the
"absence" of something more than anything real. If the truth be
known however, what we perceive as the "absence" of something
conceals something real and valuable that is waiting to be
revealed.[/quote]
My paradigm has God as omnipresent in spite of material
appearances. Jesus brought others out of the illusion of death
(darkness) and as a teacher, he had to demonstrate it for
himself so that students of his could believe, understand and
follow. His great sacrifice was in experiencing mortal man's
fear of the loss of God's love (Light) in dying when like Elijah
and Enoch, he could have just "walked on" out of the dual tree.
It gives all who fear the dying of the light courage that the
Light is always there.
[quote]Let me go on a bit more about Light. We may be tempted
to see Light as entering the world at the conception and birth
of Jesus as applying only to him personally. It's more than
that. By means of the Word, the Divine Light was made
available to all men.
[/quote]
From the "beginning" it's available to all as the only reality.
Darkness is unreal, a hypothetical "other" we choose since
Christianity is nothing if it's not about choice. We are the
image and likeness of God and as a result, like Him, we choose.
The reflection is revealed as Perfect when we think like Light
in its entirety by choice. The fable in Genesis with the serpent
demonstrates it clearly. Choose eternal Light or its
hypothetical opposite, darkness.
[quote]I also believe it's critical to reach the point where we
see the "Inner Light" concealed in "the sinner." All people
have the potential to receive Light and let their Light shine.
What we call "sinners" are potential saints. If we can see
them as the potential saints they really are, it helps dispel
the illusions they have of themselves as "hopeless sinners."
If we can see the Good in them and see the potential Light, we
can help call it forth. We are saying along with God and Jesus,
"Let there be Light" by seeing them as they really are --
children of God with illusions. We see darkness only? God can
be dwelling there without our perceiving it.
[/quote]
That's right. I don't believe that Light ever made a mistake
with any of creation so in my paradigm, it isn't that we strive
upward to Perfection - - we have always been lights. It's just
necessary for us to redeem the unreal (finite materiality) we've
bought into. We don't drop 2x2=5, we redeem it by Truth since 2
is still 2 and 5 is still 5. In the same way, that apparition of
a dying person or a dead one isn't thought of as some kind of
nebulous spirit floating around but is redeemed, reconstituted
into its true, solid, substantial, eternal appearance. We are
redeemed ourselves and so too sinners by "seeing" them as they
always have been in spite of what material appearances are. We
aren't fooled by 2x2=5 because we know the truth about it and
that truth changes the 5 into 4. In that, the illusions start
to fall away. We can call that rising. It can also be referred
to as uncovering I think.
para . . . .
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