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#Post#: 18784--------------------------------------------------
Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: Kerry Date: May 20, 2018, 6:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's said that those who don't remember the lessons of history
are doomed to repeat it. I saw a Nazi propaganda film when I
was in college in the 1970's; and I learned an important
lesson. The German people were no better or worse than any
other people. Something happened in Germany, something that
could happen in almost any country if its people are not on
guard against hate, indifference and a kind of coldness of the
soul.
The quality of the film isn't the best. Some of the images are
hard to take. You want to look away.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7LO86EMw8Y
Description from You Tube:
One of Nazi propaganda movies produced by the Office of Racial
Policy in the National Socialist Racial and Political Office
meant to warn the greater public about the dangers and costs
posed by mentally ill and mentally retarded people.
The propaganda film the US Holocaust Memorial Museum is shorter
with better quality. I can't post the video here; but you can
watch it there:
HTML https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1004798
Part of a Nazi educational film (propaganda) [Aufklaerungsfilm]
produced by the Nazi Party's Rassenpolitische Amt [Office of
Racial Policy] regarding "unheilbare Geistkranke" [the
"incurably insane"]. German mental hospitals and its patients
including Jews. Text discusses "causes" and possible
"solutions." Uses intertitles and graphics to discuss genetics
of idiocy, unfair burden German people must bear to pay costs,
and danger of ever increasing numbers of mentally ill. Patients
supposedly live in luxury while many "normal" hardworking
Germans live in substandard conditions.
What reminded me of this? President Trump did. Okay, I get it
when someone insults another person by calling him an animal.
I get it. It strikes me as different however when you say
they're not people but animals. That's dangerously different.
HTML https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/16/trump-immigrants-animals-mexico-democrats-sanctuary-cities/617252002/
“We have people coming into the country or trying to come in,
we're stopping a lot of them, but we're taking people out of the
country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are," Trump
said.
"These aren't people. These are animals."
Trump's comments came in a freewheeling, hour-long White House
meeting with local California leaders opposed to so-called
"sanctuary city" policies. "California's law provides safe
harbor to some of the most vicious and violent offenders on
Earth, like MS-13 gang members putting innocent men, women, and
children at the mercy of these sadistic criminals," he said.
I ask how do people become "vicious and violent offenders" who
act like animals? What is going on in Mexico that is creating
this kind of gang members? Surely Trump is right in wanting
to protect innocent people; but is dehumanizing gang members the
way to do it? You could shoot down gang members on the spot
without trials, but that would not solve the problem, not if the
conditions that turn children into "sadistic criminals" go
unchanged.
We risk becoming like animals ourselves when we say other people
are animals and not people.
#Post#: 18785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: Kerry Date: May 20, 2018, 7:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Republican candidate for governor in Oklahoma is denying he
made a comment in favor of euthanasia. I think he probably did
post it himself and is now claiming his site was hacked after he
realized his views were not that popular.
HTML http://atlantablackstar.com/2018/05/16/campaign-site-called-euthanizing-food-stamp-recipients-oklahoma-candidate-governor-claimed-hacked/
A Republican gubernatorial candidate in Oklahoma said he’s
received death threats after someone allegedly hacked his
campaign’s Facebook page and called for the euthanization of
poor, disabled people on food stamps.
Candidate Christoper Barnett insists it wasn’t him who made the
inflammatory comments, which have since gone viral.
“There are people saying they want to shoot me, they are going
to assassinate me, they are going to shoot me, they are going to
blow us up,” he told local station KFOR. “I’m in this election.
I’m not dropping out. They’re not going to intimidate me.”
The controversy unfolded Sunday after Oklahoma resident Lisa
Schwart shared screenshots of a poll posted on a page purporting
to be for Barnett’s campaign titled, “ChrisforGov.” It should be
noted that Barnett’s official campaign website bears the same
name, Raw Story reported.
The administrator of the page initially posted a poll about food
stamp requirements, asking users if it was fair to cut food
stamps for folks who are unemployed. The administrator then
proceeded to make comments promoting euthanasia as a fix for
food stamp recipients who are too disabled to work, and thus
“cannot contribute to society any longer.”
“Most receiving food stamps work, or are disabled,” one user
remarked on the ChrisforGov poll post. “Some are elderly. And
what about the children? What are your plans for them?”
“The ones who are disabled and cannot work … why are we required
to keep them?” the person running Barnett’s account replied.
“Sorry, but euthanasia is cheaper and doesn’t make everyone a
slave to the Government [sic].”
According to a recent HuffPost report, a large chunk of the
nearly 43 million food stamp recipients in 2016 were white —
36.2 percent to be exact. Just 26 percent of food stamp
beneficiaries that year were Black while 17 percent were Latino.
So, whomever was behind Barnett’s Facebook page essentially
called for the mass euthanasia of poor white Americans.
“Obviously, I’m not saying the Government should put these
people down,” the Chrisforgov account wrote, walking back its
earlier statements. “I’m just saying that we shouldn’t keep them
up.”
“If they can take care of themselves without Government
assistance, great,” he/she added. “If not, let them starve and
die. Easy as that.”
It's hard to say what really happened; but one thing is clear:
Somebody said it. Somebody thought that and said it.
#Post#: 18786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: paralambano Date: May 20, 2018, 7:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Kerry -
Two points.
#1. Nazism ought to be outlawed. It's proven beyond doubt to be
evil.
#2. People act like rabid animals, not that they are actually.
We can say people appear to be evil so I agree with your
conclusion.
para . . . .
#Post#: 18788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: HOLLAND Date: May 20, 2018, 8:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I would suggest that this is not merely a matter involving
euthanasia. It is also what passes for conservativism nowadays,
the Alt-Right, which is rooted more in Nietzsche than what
people think.
If one rejects human equality and the rule of law based upon the
idea of a common or public good, as Nietzsche does, invariably
you are going to assert that there is a division between the
"higher" or 'over-men" as opposed to the "mass", that is to say
the women and the herd of non-dominant males, or the slaves.
For if equality is to be rejected, there must, in the end, be
asserted that there are masters and slaves.
The Alt-Right rejects what they call SJWs, social justice
warriors. Why should slaves speak out of turn, speaking to
justify their weakness, their political impotence with the
masters in the name of pity, of kindness, and other values to be
associated with the weak? For Nietzsche, weakness is something
to be despised. If one is mentally ill or has serious medical
conditions, they are "useless eaters" and should not be allowed
to live, if the masters declare that that is the best course of
action in their interests.
Here is a video that shows an angry Alt-Right rejection of slave
morality (and of Christianity) in its defense of the weak and
the morality of social justice. As one can tell from the video,
the Alt-Right is a modern version of fascism.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTC5QEO0aJE
[i]Note how angry the commentator is about people who
self-identify as victims. If there are no victims, there can be
no social justice. Though the commentator does not say it, he
has no interest in social justice.[/I] As many White
evangelicals have adopted the philosophy of Nietzsche, they have
quietly given up their faith in God and in Christ in their war
upon SJWs, social justice warriors. They have become part of
the racist Christian Identity movement. But God has judged
those who act against social justice. Those that are without
love and justice do not eventually prosper . . .
#Post#: 18789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: guest6 Date: May 21, 2018, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1337.msg18785#msg18785
date=1526817712]
The Republican candidate for governor in Oklahoma is denying he
made a comment in favor of euthanasia. I think he probably did
post it himself and is now claiming his site was hacked after he
realized his views were not that popular.
HTML http://atlantablackstar.com/2018/05/16/campaign-site-called-euthanizing-food-stamp-recipients-oklahoma-candidate-governor-claimed-hacked/
A Republican gubernatorial candidate in Oklahoma said he’s
received death threats after someone allegedly hacked his
campaign’s Facebook page and called for the euthanization of
poor, disabled people on food stamps.
Candidate Christoper Barnett insists it wasn’t him who made the
inflammatory comments, which have since gone viral.
“There are people saying they want to shoot me, they are going
to assassinate me, they are going to shoot me, they are going to
blow us up,” he told local station KFOR. “I’m in this election.
I’m not dropping out. They’re not going to intimidate me.”
The controversy unfolded Sunday after Oklahoma resident Lisa
Schwart shared screenshots of a poll posted on a page purporting
to be for Barnett’s campaign titled, “ChrisforGov.” It should be
noted that Barnett’s official campaign website bears the same
name, Raw Story reported.
The administrator of the page initially posted a poll about food
stamp requirements, asking users if it was fair to cut food
stamps for folks who are unemployed. The administrator then
proceeded to make comments promoting euthanasia as a fix for
food stamp recipients who are too disabled to work, and thus
“cannot contribute to society any longer.”
“Most receiving food stamps work, or are disabled,” one user
remarked on the ChrisforGov poll post. “Some are elderly. And
what about the children? What are your plans for them?”
“The ones who are disabled and cannot work … why are we required
to keep them?” the person running Barnett’s account replied.
“Sorry, but euthanasia is cheaper and doesn’t make everyone a
slave to the Government [sic].”
According to a recent HuffPost report, a large chunk of the
nearly 43 million food stamp recipients in 2016 were white —
36.2 percent to be exact. Just 26 percent of food stamp
beneficiaries that year were Black while 17 percent were Latino.
So, whomever was behind Barnett’s Facebook page essentially
called for the mass euthanasia of poor white Americans.
“Obviously, I’m not saying the Government should put these
people down,” the Chrisforgov account wrote, walking back its
earlier statements. “I’m just saying that we shouldn’t keep them
up.”
“If they can take care of themselves without Government
assistance, great,” he/she added. “If not, let them starve and
die. Easy as that.”
It's hard to say what really happened; but one thing is clear:
Somebody said it. Somebody thought that and said it.
[/quote]
That sounds similar to what Prince Phillip said. In 1988, he
said: ‘In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to
return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving
overpopulation.’
HTML https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/prince-philip-words/
So I wonder what part of the population he would like to kill
off with a deadly virus. I guess it would be what they consider
the "useless eaters".
#Post#: 18790--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: guest6 Date: May 21, 2018, 6:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1337.msg18788#msg18788
date=1526867624]
I would suggest that this is not merely a matter involving
euthanasia. It is also what passes for conservativism nowadays,
the Alt-Right, which is rooted more in Nietzsche than what
people think.
For Nietzsche, weakness is something to be despised. If one is
mentally ill or has serious medical conditions, they are
"useless eaters" and should not be allowed to live, if the
masters declare that that is the best course of action in their
interests.[/Quote]
It sounds to me like it has more to do with class system.
Nietzsche must have been upper class. Those kind of statements
are usually made by the very wealthy upper class.
That was a hard video to watch. I think people need to stop
allowing themselves to be so manipulated by this divide and
conquer thing. It seems to me that being so influenced like that
will make people be exactly what they are fighting so hard
against and not wanting to be.
#Post#: 18791--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: Kerry Date: May 21, 2018, 7:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1337.msg18788#msg18788
date=1526867624]
I would suggest that this is not merely a matter involving
euthanasia. It is also what passes for conservativism nowadays,
the Alt-Right, which is rooted more in Nietzsche than what
people think.[/quote]
Perhaps we should discuss Nietzche more. I couldn't bear to
listen to the entire video, sorry; but I felt the man was
misrepresenting Nietzsche, maybe not as badly as the Nazis did
but he was still misrepresenting him.
[quote]If one rejects human equality and the rule of law based
upon the idea of a common or public good, as Nietzsche does,
invariably you are going to assert that there is a division
between the "higher" or 'over-men" as opposed to the "mass",
that is to say the women and the herd of non-dominant males, or
the slaves. For if equality is to be rejected, there must, in
the end, be asserted that there are masters and slaves.[/quote]
I don't think Nietzsche rejected human equality. I honestly
don't. I can see how some of what he wrote could be read that
way; but I think he rejected both the "master mentality" and the
"slave mentality" as inferior outdated concepts.
The way I read him is that the Ubermensche can be interpreted is
like the Jewish "Adam Kadmon" or even the "Body of Christ."
People given the title of "Son of man" in the Bible are given
certain powers or authority . . . along with responsibilities.
The "Overman" should not be seen as having a "master mentality"
in any dehumanizing sense. That's my take on it.
[quote]The Alt-Right rejects what they call SJWs, social justice
warriors. Why should slaves speak out of turn, speaking to
justify their weakness, their political impotence with the
masters in the name of pity, of kindness, and other values to be
associated with the weak? For Nietzsche, weakness is something
to be despised. If one is mentally ill or has serious medical
conditions, they are "useless eaters" and should not be allowed
to live, if the masters declare that that is the best course of
action in their interests.
Here is a video that shows an angry Alt-Right rejection of slave
morality (and of Christianity) in its defense of the weak and
the morality of social justice. As one can tell from the video,
the Alt-Right is a modern version of fascism.[/quote]
As usual, I try to find elements of truth in what someone says;
and I do think the world needs to reject the slave mentality of
royal families, of historical Christianity, and of the currently
degraded democracies.
[quote][i]Note how angry the commentator is about people who
self-identify as victims. If there are no victims, there can be
no social justice. Though the commentator does not say it, he
has no interest in social justice.[/I] [/quote]
I'd say he tends to see himself as a victim more or less.
Frankly I'm a little tired of hearing about victims myself.
It's lead to no good that I can see. I'm certainly not a fan of
Kanye West; but I could agree with his statement about black
people remaining in a plantation mentality. I agree with Louis
Farrakhan too when he said black people need to stop thinking
about black and white and think about green.
It is a waste of time for black people to ask for reparations or
sympathy for past wrongs. The white man is not going to fix
things now anymore than he did in the past. Black people would
be better off to forget the past as much as they can and deal
more with their current problems which are real and continuing.
What good have the preachers of victimhood done black people?
They elect black people to Congress who have gotten "special
favors" for them in the past and who promise more special favors
if they can get them; but it's really the black members of
Congress who've benefited by getting rich. Black people have
never gotten action from the government that solved their
problems; and I doubt they ever will as long as they elect
people to Congress who agree with them that they're victims and
need to be treated as victims.
You see, the black politicians who get elected by preaching
victimology are afraid they might lose their jobs if problems
actually got solved. What could they run on then? They have a
vested interest in keeping black people down and out so they can
keep getting votes by promises to help.
[quote]As many White evangelicals have adopted the philosophy of
Nietzsche, they have quietly given up their faith in God and in
Christ in their war upon SJWs, social justice warriors. They
have become part of the racist Christian Identity movement. But
God has judged those who act against social justice. Those that
are without love and justice do not eventually prosper . .
.[/quote]I'd say it's an updated version of the KKK which
claimed to Christian.
I've been researching the history of the MS-13 gang. I thought
it has originated in Mexico. Someone at Domino's told me it had
started in El Salvador. Well, we were both wrong. The MS-13
gang originated in Los Angeles in the 1980s. There is a
connection with El Salvador however since most of its members
are from Central America with El Salvador playing a prominent
role. The question President Trump needs to answer is what is
it about Los Angeles that produced this gang that now operates
from Toronto, Canada to Central America? Perhaps we all need
to find answers to that. Instead of trying to dehumanize them
and saying they're animals, perhaps we need to ask what it was
about life in Los Angeles that turned refugees into vicious
gang members?
I haven't finished my research yet; but at the moment, I tend to
put some of the blame on the Catholic Church and on Ronald
Reagan. . . and on the city of Los Angeles for its long history
of ignoring gang problems since MS-13 started in large part to
protect El Salvadoran refugees from other gangs -- of Mexican
gangs and black gangs. However you cut it, it turns out that
MS-13 is a product of American culture. It is not something
that evolved somewhere else.
#Post#: 18792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: Kerry Date: May 21, 2018, 7:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=1337.msg18789#msg18789
date=1526901637]
That sounds similar to what Prince Phillip said. In 1988, he
said: ‘In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to
return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving
overpopulation.’
HTML https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/prince-philip-words/
So I wonder what part of the population he would like to kill
off with a deadly virus. I guess it would be what they consider
the "useless eaters".
[/quote]I read somewhere once that he's apt to say almost
anything to dinner guests if he thinks they're stodgy. He likes
to shock them. I don't think the Queen approves that much,
but. . . . . My impression is he can't be taken seriously
much of the time. I hope he wasn't serious.
Do you know he was born in a house without electricity or indoor
plumbing on a kitchen table? His early life was one disaster
after another. I believe he and his whole family might have
been executed if King George V hadn't sent a ship to rescue
them.
#Post#: 18793--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: HOLLAND Date: May 21, 2018, 8:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1337.msg18791#msg18791
date=1526904458]
Perhaps we should discuss Nietzche more. I couldn't bear to
listen to the entire video, sorry; but I felt the man was
misrepresenting Nietzsche, maybe not as badly as the Nazis did
but he was still misrepresenting him. I don't think Nietzsche
rejected human equality. I honestly don't. I can see how some
of what he wrote could be read that way; but I think he rejected
both the "master mentality" and the "slave mentality" as
inferior outdated concepts.[/quote]
Actually, Kerry, he affirms the master-slave dichotomy that is
evident in his criticism of what he calls the "transvaluation of
values" that Christianity had supposedly brought into the world.
He specifically condemns the weak for being such. And he calls
women and nondominant men [I]chandala[/I], a kind of term that
seems to deny them humanity.
[quote]The way I read him is that the Ubermensche can be
interpreted is like the Jewish "Adam Kadmon" or even the "Body
of Christ." People given the title of "Son of man" in the
Bible are given certain powers or authority . . . along with
responsibilities. The "Overman" should not be seen as having a
"master mentality" in any dehumanizing sense. That's my take on
it.[/quote]
I would agree that many people seek to read Nietzsche in the
ways that are most compatible with their philosophy. I tend to
accept Nietzsche at his word. If he rejects Christianity
because he rejects what he calls "pity ethics", than I'm
inclined to take him at his word. Nietzsche's last work The
Anti-Christ is an explicit rejection of the Christian faith and
an affirmation of the strong enslaving the weak.
I suspect, Kerry, that you are, perhaps seeking to understand
Nietzsche in a more humanistic way, in the lines of Sartre and
of a number of other existentialists. I don't think that the
interpretation of him in that manner can be maintained. I have
problems with the inner coherence of these interpretations. Of
course, Nietzsche is incoherent in his thought. He was
descending into madness because of his syphilis.
[quote]As usual, I try to find elements of truth in what someone
says; and I do think the world needs to reject the slave
mentality of royal families, of historical Christianity, and of
the currently degraded democracies. I'd say he tends to see
himself as a victim more or less.[/quote]
Everyone has a partial title to the truth, I would agree. I
would disagree in that the idea of justice as a social good, if
it is to be affirmed, must lead to the conclusion that there are
those who are victims and those who are victimizers. My reading
of Nietzsche is that Nietzsche's overmen reject the notion that
there are victims. The overmen are the ones who make the values
and justice is not one of their values.
[quote]Frankly I'm a little tired of hearing about victims
myself. It's lead to no good that I can see. I'm certainly not
a fan of Kanye West; but I could agree with his statement about
black people remaining in a plantation mentality. I agree with
Louis Farrakhan too when he said black people need to stop
thinking about black and white and think about green.[/quote]
What is the justice regarding past wrongs to a community?
That's an open question. For me, since my ancestors did not
come to America until around 1905, I wonder if my family ought
to be held accountable to American misdeeds in the past that
involve race. Certainly, as a community, a society must arrive
at a mutually agreed definition of justice regarding all
matters.
[quote]It is a waste of time for black people to ask for
reparations or sympathy for past wrongs. The white man is not
going to fix things now anymore than he did in the past. Black
people would be better off to forget the past as much as they
can and deal more with their current problems which are real and
continuing. What good have the preachers of victimhood done
black people? They elect black people to Congress who have
gotten "special favors" for them in the past and who promise
more special favors if they can get them; but it's really the
black members of Congress who've benefited by getting rich.
Black people have never gotten action from the government that
solved their problems; and I doubt they ever will as long as
they elect people to Congress who agree with them that they're
victims and need to be treated as victims.
You see, the black politicians who get elected by preaching
victimology are afraid they might lose their jobs if problems
actually got solved. What could they run on then? They have a
vested interest in keeping black people down and out so they can
keep getting votes by promises to help.
I'd say it's an updated version of the KKK which claimed to
Christian.[/quote]
As long as the grievance remains, the search for justice
remains. I would suggest that grievance is deeper that simple
victimhood. Not all victims are suffering injustice such as The
Donald in respect to the investigations being conducted about
his financial and other activities involving foreign powers.
[quote]I've been researching the history of the MS-13 gang. I
thought it has originated in Mexico. Someone at Domino's told
me it had started in El Salvador. Well, we were both wrong.
The MS-13 gang originated in Los Angeles in the 1980s. There is
a connection with El Salvador however since most of its members
are from Central America with El Salvador playing a prominent
role. The question President Trump needs to answer is what is
it about Los Angeles that produced this gang that now operates
from Toronto, Canada to Central America? Perhaps we all need
to find answers to that. Instead of trying to dehumanize them
and saying they're animals, perhaps we need to ask what it was
about life in Los Angeles that turned refugees into vicious
gang members?
I haven't finished my research yet; but at the moment, I tend to
put some of the blame on the Catholic Church and on Ronald
Reagan. . . and on the city of Los Angeles for its long history
of ignoring gang problems since MS-13 started in large part to
protect El Salvadoran refugees from other gangs -- of Mexican
gangs and black gangs. However you cut it, it turns out that
MS-13 is a product of American culture. It is not something
that evolved somewhere else.
[/quote]
I haven't heard much about this gang. Perhaps it is like the
domestic gangs such as the Bloods and the Cripps who are
surrogate family for their members and are not merely a law
enforcement problem. If families are sound, then the problems
with surrogate families such as gangs would not exist.
#Post#: 18794--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erbkrank: The Relevance of Nazi Propaganda for Today
By: guest6 Date: May 21, 2018, 8:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1337.msg18792#msg18792
date=1526906375]
I read somewhere once that he's apt to say almost anything to
dinner guests if he thinks they're stodgy. He likes to shock
them. I don't think the Queen approves that much, but. . . . .
My impression is he can't be taken seriously much of the
time. I hope he wasn't serious.
Do you know he was born in a house without electricity or indoor
plumbing on a kitchen table? His early life was one disaster
after another. I believe he and his whole family might have
been executed if King George V hadn't sent a ship to rescue
them.
[/quote]
He said it was fun to be rude. I think that what he said goes
beyond being rude and certainly wasn't funny. And I think he was
serious deep down inside.
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