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       #Post#: 18141--------------------------------------------------
       When god hears
       By: George Date: March 27, 2018, 9:59 pm
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       Hebrews 5:7 King James Version (KJV)
       7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers
       and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was
       able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
       How is this passage understood by those who believe Jesus died?
       There is without doubt a clear understanding that every time it
       is said the God “heard” ones prayer, he granted their wish.
       #Post#: 18143--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When god hears
       By: Kerry Date: March 28, 2018, 7:03 am
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       [quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=1322.msg18141#msg18141
       date=1522205992]
       Hebrews 5:7 King James Version (KJV)
       7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers
       and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was
       able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
       How is this passage understood by those who believe Jesus died?
       There is without doubt a clear understanding that every time it
       is said the God “heard” ones prayer, he granted their wish.
       [/quote]I think you need to experience something before you
       fully understand it.  The problem with "death" is that when you
       experience it, you're dead and can't learn from the experience.
       
       I don't read that passage to mean Jesus prayed to avoid dying.
       He had agreed to that, when he said "Not my will but thine be
       done."   I think when we resist something, we are giving it
       power.  We're imagining it's so big and powerful, we need to
       resist it.  As Scientology puts it, "What you resist, you
       become."    Jesus died quite quickly on the cross.  Most
       crucifixions lasted much longer.  They were designed to last a
       long time.  The "will to live" keeps struggling to stay alive,
       and the pain is prolonged.   Jesus gave up that struggle  to
       live and said, "Into thy hands I commend my spirit."   If death
       is certain, why prolong matters?  If you can trust God to do
       what is right, you have no good reason to want to stay in a body
       that is being tortured and that will certainly die.
       Jesus' job was to learn how to defeat death.  If he could do
       that,  the people "sleeping" in their graves could be wakened.
       He'd know how to wake them up.   God can't die, so God couldn't
       do it.  Besides God had given dominion over the earth to man, so
       a man had to do it.   I think Jesus' prayer was not only for
       himself but for others as well.  If he could die and be
       resurrected, that would mean others could be too.
       #Post#: 18150--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When god hears
       By: George Date: March 28, 2018, 9:05 pm
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       You don’t read the passage in the op or the passages of Jesus in
       the garden when he prays take this cup from me?
       #Post#: 18153--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When god hears
       By: Kerry Date: March 29, 2018, 7:22 am
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       It is connected.
       Jesus already knew he was going to partake of that cup.
       Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last:
       for many be called, but few chosen.
       17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples
       apart in the way, and said unto them,
       18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be
       betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they
       shall condemn him to death,
       19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to
       scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise
       again.
       20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her
       sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
       21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him,
       Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand,
       and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
       22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye
       able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be
       baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto
       him, We are able.
       23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and
       be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit
       on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it
       shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
       A stark difference is that these two sons of Zebedee wanted to
       drink of that cup while Jesus asked for it to pass from him.
       The feminine soul is like a grape maturing here on the earth.
       When it is fully mature, it matches the masculine Spirit. At the
       point of harvesting, it is severed from the vine. Now there is
       where the temporary sense of loss of the connection with God
       comes from. Prior to that, the connection was via the Vine.
       Consult now in your mind the Star of David. One triangle points
       up, one down. The significance of this involves movement. The
       soul is reaching upwards and the masculine is moving downwards.
       When they meet and overlap perfectly, completely perfectly, they
       become one -- and lo, a god is born. That is what the dot in the
       center means.
       The "lights" go out temporarily. The greater and lesser lights
       and the stars appear darkened. Then the soul itself is reborn as
       part of the Star.
       It is a fearful thing to go into this test. If the soul is found
       imperfect in any way, it goes out of existence. Indeed, it is
       completely up to God what happens. No one can predict completely
       the outcome.
       Only a fool would rush into this test, guided by pride. Only a
       fool seeks to be first and dominant. The true Servant of God
       doesn't mind being the humble servant, does not promote self.
       People may think Jesus was afraid of dying; but let me point out
       the fact we are all going to die, sooner or later. If you're
       dead completely after the body dies, what would it matter if you
       died earlier than you wanted? I don't see Jesus as being afraid
       of dying. I also don't see him rushing forward to defeat death.
       That was the Father's call.
       He had already agreed to partake of that cup. The conversation
       with the Zebedees tell us that. It's a matter of timing. The
       soul that wants to take this test is foolish, being filled with
       pride.
       That cup is also associated with rewards. Jesus almost knew with
       certainty that he would be promoted if he partook of that cup,
       was resurrected and raised back to higher glory than he had had
       before. Can you see how it would have been self-promoting if he
       craved that cup? No, he took the advice he had given to others.
       Luke 14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden,
       when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto
       them.
       8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in
       the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden
       of him;
       9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this
       man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
       10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room;
       that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee,
       Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the
       presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
       11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that
       humbleth himself shall be exalted.
       Jesus was worthy of his promotion because he wasn't seeking it,
       wanting to drink that cup so he could get promoted. The Zebedees
       wanted promoted and said they could partake of it.
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