DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Love God Only
HTML https://lovegodonly.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Daily Living
*****************************************************
#Post#: 17375--------------------------------------------------
Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: guest6 Date: January 19, 2018, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Pope seeks forgiveness for sex abuse scandals while at the
same time accusing sex abuse victims of slander. Zero tolerance
in action. ::)
Pope shocks Chile by accusing sex abuse victims of slander
SANTIAGO, Chile — Pope Francis accused victims of Chile's most
notorious **** of slander Thursday, an astonishing end to a
visit meant to help heal the wounds of a sex abuse scandal that
has cost the Catholic Church its credibility in the country.
Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros
was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Rev. Fernando
Karadima, such accusations against Barros are "all calumny."
The pope's remarks drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke
from victims and their advocates. They noted the accusers were
deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima
to a lifetime of "penance and prayer" for his crimes in 2011. A
Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that
while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because
too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn't lacking.
"As if I could have taken a selfie or a photo while Karadima
abused me and others and Juan Barros stood by watching it all,"
tweeted Barros' most vocal accuser, Juan Carlos Cruz. "These
people are truly crazy, and the pontiff talks about atonement to
the victims. Nothing has changed, and his plea for forgiveness
is empty."
HTML https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-shocks-chile-by-accusing-sex-abuse-victims-of-slander/ar-AAuRP6k?ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz
#Post#: 17376--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: Kerry Date: January 19, 2018, 6:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=1310.msg17375#msg17375
date=1516375466]
Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros
was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Rev. Fernando
Karadima, such accusations against Barros are "all calumny."
[/quote]Pope Francis sounds like an attorney for the Mafia.
Here I thought the Church was to have a higher standard of
behavior than the legal one.
If Juan Barros was the best Francis could do, you have to wonder
about the other people considered for the job of Bishop.
#Post#: 17377--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: Kerry Date: January 19, 2018, 7:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
How long will the Catholic Church persist in its practice about
priests being unmarried?
Pope Francis may need to reread Paul's first letter to Timothy.
I Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of
one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to
hospitality, apt to teach;
We can argue perhaps about what it means for a bishop to be
"blameless." However the requirement given that a bishop be
the husband of one wife is not debatable, no matter how long the
Catholic Church has had its tradition of unmarried priests.
Paul thought there a very good reason that unmarried priests
should not be promoted to Bishop.
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but
patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in
subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he
take care of the church of God?)
Now if a priest were to marry and his wife and children were
poorly behaved, we might find it hard to determine who was
mostly at fault. Is that a good reason not to promote such a man
to Bishop? It is. If the standard is a high one and the
priest's entire family is a witness to his godliness, you are
not taking unnecessary risks with the Church.
Paul would be frowning at what the Pope said:
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the
condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without;
lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
What? Someone who is given the job of Bishop should have a
good reputation outside the Church? Yes, that's what Paul said.
Yet the Catholic Church for years and years has seemed unable
to come up with men who have good reputations outside the
Church. Now the Pope himself has fallen into the same practice
of promoting men whose reputations are under a cloud within
their own church. There was no need to promote someone like
Juan Barros when the position of Bishop needed to be filled.
No need at all. That is not to say that Barros is guilty of
something beyond the shadow of a doubt; but I am sure there were
other candidates who did not have this kind of cloud hanging
over them. When the reputation of the Church is at stake, why
promote the person with the cloud handing over him? Why promote
someone who lacks a "good report" from those within the Church
itself when the standard is actually higher -- a man should not
be made a Bishop unless people outside of the Church give him a
good report?
I don't think Paul is that hard to understand in that section of
1 Timothy. I'll grant that sometimes Paul is very hard to
understand; but he's very easy to understand in that section.
If someone doesn't understand it, my assumption is he doesn't
want to understand it.
I had high hopes when Francis became Pope. Perhaps that was my
mistake.
#Post#: 17391--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: HOLLAND Date: January 21, 2018, 8:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
^^^This is an interesting thread. I suppose that the Pope is
awkwardly trying to protect his church in charging the sexual
abuse victims with slander. (I am not aware of the
circumstances of this, by the way.) I suppose the Catholic
church is in a very bad way in Latin America. Last I heard, in
the United States, the average age of a priest is 68 years old.
These celibacy crises are taking a toll and many Catholics'
loyalty to their church is waning. There are fewer Catholic
crusaders here and thereabouts . . .
#Post#: 17485--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: Kerry Date: February 3, 2018, 2:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1310.msg17391#msg17391
date=1516589654]
^^^This is an interesting thread. I suppose that the Pope is
awkwardly trying to protect his church in charging the sexual
abuse victims with slander. (I am not aware of the
circumstances of this, by the way.) I suppose the Catholic
church is in a very bad way in Latin America. Last I heard, in
the United States, the average age of a priest is 68 years old.
These celibacy crises are taking a toll and many Catholics'
loyalty to their church is waning. There are fewer Catholic
crusaders here and thereabouts . . .
[/quote]The awkward attempt didn't work. Indeed it seemed to
spark outrage. The Pope has altered course.
HTML https://apnews.com/87f57b6fcbc54fddb814616a7b622087/Pope-sends-sex-crimes-expert-to-Chile-to-investigate-bishop
VATICAN CITY (AP) — After coming under excoriating public
criticism, Pope Francis decided Tuesday to send the Vatican’s
most respected sex crimes expert to Chile to investigate a
bishop accused by victims of covering up for the country’s most
notorious pedophile priest.
The Vatican said Maltese Archbishop Charles Scicluna would
travel to Chile “to listen to those who have expressed the
desire to provide elements” about the case of Bishop Juan
Barros.
The move marks the first known time the Vatican has launched a
full-blown investigation into allegations of sex abuse cover-up,
and it comes after Francis was harshly criticized by the media,
survivors of abuse, his fellow Jesuits and some of his top
advisers for his unwavering defense of Barros.
The Barros controversy dominated Francis’ just-ended trip to
Chile and Peru and exposed his blind spot about clerical abuse.
Even the head of his abuse advisory panel, Cardinal Sean
O’Malley of Boston, publicly rebuked him for his dismissive
treatment of victims and tried to set him straight.
#Post#: 17491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: paralambano Date: February 3, 2018, 8:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Kerry/Holland - ^
The RCC is an institutional structure and like institutions it's
likely out to protect the structure which includes back of it
the idea of its offices and sometimes forgetting that this idea
contains actual people and innocents within it. What is it
Orthodox Jews say? Every person a world?
Well did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman that a time comes
where true worshipers will worship in Spirit and Truth. This
goes beyond institutional structures since Jerusalem was about
to be destroyed in his day.
This institution needs to get ahead of the curve and it starts
from the top on down.
para . . . .
#Post#: 17493--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: Kerry Date: February 4, 2018, 3:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1310.msg17491#msg17491
date=1517669179]
This institution needs to get ahead of the curve and it starts
from the top on down.[/quote]
Yes, hierarchies succeed only when they operate from the top
down. The current situation, not only in the Catholic Church
but in many churches, have the sheep directing the shepherds or
reproving them when they do not base their decisions on what is
good for their flocks.
#Post#: 17496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: HOLLAND Date: February 4, 2018, 8:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's difficult to reform something in a hierarchy when there is
trouble towards the top. In my area of the country, the size of
the Catholic church has decreased by half. It has the excellent
possibility of decreasing yet again by another half. This, I
imagine is very troubling for those who believe that the
Catholic church is 'the one true church'.
The priest shortage in that church is acute. Many dissident
groups, especially the traditionalist ones, are hostile now to
the pope's authority and are now effectively de facto
protestants of the Old Catholic variety. This, I imagine, must
addle the nerves of the hierarchy in many ways. 'Peter's Keys'
do not seem to be helping much in this moment of history. I
think that the worries about this shortage has affected Pope
Francis.
I think that it has to do with political and religious bigotry.
If you have a consuming political contempt for those you
disagree with, you destroy the basis of fellowship within your
community and within your church. I think that Pope Francis,
despite being rather liberal, is affected by this culture of
bigotry and is being swept up in it. There is no basis for Pope
Francis to say that the alleged victims of sexual abuse by the
hierarchy are guilty of slander. But since Catholic, and the
larger traditional Protestant Christian churches and culture is
now tamely affected by the culture of weaponized lies, a pope is
no longer essential to authority much like a president, such as
Trump, is no longer essential to a nation. It is the fad of the
lie that has supremacy and those that most effectively wield it.
I think that the accusation of slander goes back to the culture
of death that weaponized lies bring into a society. If the
Catholic church wants to continue to embrace the lie, such as
its current prostitution with Republicans and Trump in America,
it will continue its serious institutional decline. The pope is
losing his authority and place in his own church. The new pope
is the weaponized lies of the dissents who have no regard for
the truth.
#Post#: 17847--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: Kerry Date: March 5, 2018, 1:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Pope Francis is having more pressure put on him. At least this
time, no minors were involved.
HTML https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/allegations-about-40-gay-priests-italy-sent-vatican-n853636
The archdiocese of Naples says it has sent the Vatican a
1,200-page dossier compiled by a male escort identifying 40
actively gay priests and seminarians in Italy.
In a statement on the diocesan website, Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe
said none of the identified priests worked in Naples. But he
said he decided to forward the file to the Vatican because
“there remains the gravity of the cases for which those who have
erred must pay the price, and be helped to repent for the harm
done.”
The dossier, containing WhatsApp chats and other evidence, was
compiled by a self-proclaimed gay escort, Francesco Mangiacapra.
He has told Italian media that he outed the priests because he
couldn’t stand their hypocrisy any longer.
None of the 34 priests or six seminarians was accused of having
sex with minors, Mangiacapra was quoted as saying in the
diocesan statement.
“We’re talking about sins, not crimes,” the escort was quoted as
saying in the statement.
It’s the latest sex scandal to convulse the Italian church and
the Vatican.
Last month, a Vatican judge pleaded guilty in a Rome tribunal to
having child porn on his computer after police were brought in
when he allegedly tried to fondle an 18-year-old man. Monsignor
Pietro Amenta was a judge on the Roman Rota, the Holy See
tribunal that hears marriage annulment cases, as well as a
consulter to various Vatican congregations. He resigned after
the plea deal, the Vatican said.
How long has this been going on -- preaching one thing while
doing another?
#Post#: 17852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pope Francis Accusing Chile Sex Abuse Victims of Slander
By: HOLLAND Date: March 5, 2018, 7:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
^^^Perhaps, Kerry, these priestly sexual ministrations on the
part of these clergy are a delving into an alternative form of
extreme unction, an unction for wayward male escorts. I'm
inclined to think that celibacy has run its course and it's now
time for Catholics to have married priests . . .
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page