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#Post#: 4122--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: guest6 Date: March 12, 2013, 3:06 pm
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...abuse victims and their advocates in four countries so far
have begun naming various cardinals they believe should either
be removed from papal consideration, or even from the very
process to name the next pontiff, due to their actions around
the scandal. Some of the names they have singled out are
considered front-runners by Vatican observers.....SNAP(Survivors
Network of those Abused by Priests) has singled out a "Dirty
Dozen" cardinals who are contenders for pope that they consider
"to be the worst choices in terms of protecting kids, healing
victims, and exposing corruption."
The members of the "Dirty Dozen" cardinals, according to SNAP,
are: Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras), Norberto
Rivera (Mexico), Marc Ouellet (Canada), Peter Turkson (Ghana),
George Pell (Australia), Tarcisio Bertone (Italy), Angelo Scola
(Italy), Leonardo Sandri (Argentina), Dominik Duka (Czech
Republic), Sean O'Malley (United States), Timothy Dolan (United
States), and Donald Wuerl (United States).
...Victims in Mexico also singled out Cardinal Rivera, who is
among SNAP's "Dirty Dozen.".....Italian Cardinal Domenico
Calcagno is among the many who advocates say should not
participate in choosing the next pope. He is singled out for
"complete and utter failure to act against **** priests ... in
which he allowed (them) to act like wolves in a flock of
sheep,"....
Victims in Chile said recently said Cardinal Francisco Javier
Errazuriz failed to act on accusations that they were abused by
one of the country's most popular priests, even refusing to meet
them in person, reports the Associated Press.
HTML http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57572798/groups-name-dirty-cardinals-ahead-of-papal-conclave/
SNAP has also said they’re rejecting all “Curia” candidates for
the papacy, which essentially means anyone who works in
administration at the Vatican. Unsurprisingly, their list of
more acceptable candidates is quite short. The group released a
companion list of the “least worst” candidates for pope on
Thursday.
Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of the Phillipines and Cardinal
Christoph Schonborn of Austria have shown up on other papibile
lists. A third candidate on the list is an outsider because
he’s not a cardinal. Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Ireland is
not without popular support although his outspoken advocacy for
church reform in the face of the abuse scandal probably hasn’t
endeared him to the
Vatican.
HTML http://therevealer.org/archives/17081
also see:
HTML http://www.snapnetwork.org/
I wanted to find out more about Archbishop Diarmuid Martin and I
found this 60 minutes video interview.
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DHN3g5lP8
#Post#: 4126--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: Kerry Date: March 13, 2013, 8:17 am
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These odds were taken from some wagering site.
Cardinal Peter Turkson (Ghana) 5/2 -- He made a comment saying
he was ready to accept being Pope -- that comment was indiscreet
and probably hurt his chances.
Archbishop Angelo Scola (Italy) 7/2 -- The connections with
possible criminals is awkward. Too risky.
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone (Italy) 7/2 -- Bertone was behind at
least one of the problems in Milwaukee. I also think he may
have overplayed his hand, being a little too aggressive. I'd
be very surprised if he were elected.
Cardinal Marc Ouellet (Canada) 8/1 The deaf school scandal was
handled poorly. Although he is not accused ofcovering up, his
refusal to meet victims was odd. I wouldn't say he has no
chance, but this may hurt.
Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco (Italy) 16/1 The odd priest in Genoa,
Don Gallo, may have killed his chances. His recommendation that
they elect a gay Pope was strange to say the least.
Cardinal Leonardo Sandri (Argentina) 20/1 -- His connection with
Sodano and the Legionaries problem would make him an awkward
choice.
Cardinal Sean O'Malley (United States) 25/1 -- I was surprised
he was on the list -- most people think he's done a good job
reforming Boston and getting a strong anti-abuse policy in
place.
Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras) 33/1 -- Probably a
long shot
Cardinal Timothy Dolan (United States) 33/1 -- I don't think he
has even a remote chance. He's too flamboyant and the scandal
is still unresolved. He was giving a deposition right before he
boarded a plane for Rome.
Cardinal George Pell (Australia) 66/1[/u] Slim chance. His
history of denial of problems can't help him.
Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera (Mexico) 80/1 -- No chance if
you ask me.
Cardinal Dominik Duka (Czech Republic) 100/1 -- Long shot. SNAP
seemed annoyed by his remark that only 10% of cases were proved.
Cardinal Donald Wuerl (United States) 150/1 -- Not a chance.
One of my least favorite Cardinals.
Let me work some more, and I may come up with a list of
contenders. I think some of these Cardinals can be eliminated.
#Post#: 4127--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: guest6 Date: March 13, 2013, 11:57 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=129.msg4126#msg4126
date=1363180660]
Cardinal Sean O'Malley (United States) 25/1 -- I was surprised
he was on the list -- most people think he's done a good job
reforming Boston and getting a strong anti-abuse policy in
place.
[/quote]
I was surprised too. I checked SNAP's site to see why he was on
the list.
--In 2008, a national church panel found that, for the second
year in a row, O’Malley was violating the US bishops’ child sex
abuse prevention policy. According to other church officials,
O’Malley was refusing to train all kids in his archdiocese how
to avoid or stop being victimized. O’Malley also failed to
discipline a single individual on his staff for this violation.
HTML http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/03_04/2006_03_10_Levenson_88Victims.htm
--In 2006, in a case with disturbing parallels to many earlier
Boston **** priest cases, O’Malley moved very slowly in the case
of a prominent Catholic hospital official who faces multiple
allegations of sexually harassing employees.
HTML http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/05/21/omalley_reprimands_caritas_chief/
--Under O’Malley’s watch, the archdiocesan abuse policy was
revised, eliminating a provision that required the immediate
removal of accused priests, and severely limited survivors’
access to archdiocesan files about their cases. Also, under
O’Malley’s leadership, the archdiocese “cleared” a very high
percentage of accused priests (45%, whereas most diocese have a
10% clearance rate), and has also failed to rule on at least 15
cases.
HTML http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma_boston/ChildrenFirstPolicyAssessment_060407.pdf
--O’Malley was one of the last US bishops to post the names of
proven, admitted and credibly accused child molesting clerics on
his website, and when he did, he disingenuously left off roughly
one third of the priests – those who worked for religious
orders.
HTML http://www.snapnetwork.org/snap_s_dirty_dozen_list_the_papabile_who_would_be_the_worst_choice_for_children
#Post#: 4128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: Kerry Date: March 13, 2013, 4:10 pm
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Well, the Cardinals made their choice. I had a list but hadn't
posted it here. I figured it wouldn't be someone from Europe,
so I eliminated them from my list.
Cardinal Odilo Scherer (Brazil)
Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines)
Cardinal Sean O'Malley (United States)
Cardinal Francis Arinze (Nigeria)
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Argentina)
Cardinal Claudio Hummes (Brazil)
Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz (Brazil)
Cardinal Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne (Peru)
Cardinal Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino (Cuba)
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin
Archbishop Nicolas de Jesus Lopez Rodriguez (Dominican
Republic)
Cardinal Geraldo Majella Agnelo (Brazil)
I wasn't expecting Bergoglio however.
#Post#: 4129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: coldwar Date: March 13, 2013, 4:44 pm
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So, is there even any remote way in which this could be
construed to validate St. Malachy?
#Post#: 4130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: Kerry Date: March 13, 2013, 5:26 pm
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Time will tell, I guess. Bergoglio has a history of getting
involved in politics. Italy and other European countries are
taking actions that the Vatican may see as unfriendly -- like
the recent decision to start taxing church properties.
Things are so bad that you can't use credit cards now in Vatican
City because of the international sanctions against the Vatican
Bank over possible money laundrying. And we see that Italian
police just moved in their investigation of some of Cardinal
Scola's associates.
So Bergoglio may be facing opposition from political leaders.
He may also face opposition from within. I've read he's not
that popular among the members the Curia. He may have been
elected by the Cardinals out of the hope he would clean house of
the people who oppose reforms.
My impression of Benedict was that he was worn down by his own
Curia. He never cleaned house and put people in who were loyal
to him. If you watched the video with Archbishop Martin in it,
you saw how he said he wouldn't blame the Pope for something?
Martin was probably right -- the Pope got blamed for it, but I
would guess his hands were tied. But he wouldn't clean house.
Things happened in Argentina that Bergogolio may or may not have
been involved in. There are things hard to prove in a court of
law. If he's innocent, he can't prove it; and if he's guilty,
that was not proved.
How far do you go to protect your church? If you can do
something slightly shady and not get caught, is it worth it if
there are benefits? If someone else does something that would
be awkward if made public, do you cover it up if you can? If
it comes out, what do you do? Bergogolio is an ambiguous
figure to me -- I can't tell if he's willing to do risky things
politically to get what he wants. I rather think he may be.
Throwing him into the middle of European politics -- especially
volatile Italian politics -- and the current divisions in the
Curia -- could produce a fulfillment of Malachy's prophecy.
The news about the smuggled documents in the Vatileaks case was
obscured with dramatic details. Not much of real substance ever
came out. We heard about how Benedict felt personally
betrayed, etc. What we didn't hear was what was in the
documents. Supposedly the new Pope has a file on this. The
Cardinals seemed divided before the Conclave -- some wanted to
see it themselves. So the rumors went. It seems as if
Cardinal Bertone was the main force behind trying to suppress
it.
Then there is the matter of the final Fatima secret. No Pope
has yet revealed this, according to some people. I rather think
this is the case myself. That could shake the world -- not
only the Catholic Church.
#Post#: 4131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: thelowlyfisherman Date: March 13, 2013, 8:01 pm
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Pope Francis does have an Italian blood line. Thats about the
best I can come up with.
#Post#: 4132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: Kerry Date: March 14, 2013, 6:43 pm
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I wasn't expecting someone named Peter necessarily or even
someone from Rome. The way I read it, it was like how John
the Baptist was in the spirit of Elijah.
#Post#: 4133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: coldwar Date: March 15, 2013, 9:29 am
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I think we all need to be reminded of how the track record
appears for modern day prophecies. Think of William Miller, Hal
Lindsay, Harold Camping, Y2K, the Mayan Calendar, and now this.
I'm not saying that pope Francis is, or isn't "Peter the Roman".
It could be that St. Malachy, when he wrote "The End" could have
simply meant "Good Night" if he was in his cups, and simply
dropped his project. Like the Mayan Calendar, everything has to
stop sometime. All I really mean is the Lord himself is the
spirit of prophecy (Rev. 9:10).
On the other hand, we see so many things all converging in our
day. For those of us "watching and waiting", this is one of
those many things that shows we are on the brink of great
tribulation, followed swiftly by the beginning of a whole new
age, with the day star (Christ) ruling over all men. The RC
Church may come to a complete end under Pope Francis. So also
may the Church of England, because when Queen Elisabeth dies,
neither Charles or William are interested in carrying on the
role of head of the church. What remains of both of these may
simply merge back together into a shadow of their former selves.
Who knows?
#Post#: 4135--------------------------------------------------
Re: Prophecies of St. Malachy
By: Kerry Date: March 15, 2013, 12:41 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=129.msg4133#msg4133
date=1363357747]
I think we all need to be reminded of how the track record
appears for modern day prophecies. Think of William Miller, Hal
Lindsay, Harold Camping, Y2K, the Mayan Calendar, and now this.
I'm not saying that pope Francis is, or isn't "Peter the Roman".
It could be that St. Malachy, when he wrote "The End" could have
simply meant "Good Night" if he was in his cups, and simply
dropped his project. Like the Mayan Calendar, everything has to
stop sometime. All I really mean is the Lord himself is the
spirit of prophecy (Rev. 9:10).[/quote]
I believe he had a vision outside of Rome when he was going
there to visit. So the story goes. I think he Peter. The
first shall be last. . . . Jesus prayed his disciples would
stay in the world. I think Peter did.
[quote]On the other hand, we see so many things all converging
in our day. For those of us "watching and waiting", this is one
of those many things that shows we are on the brink of great
tribulation, followed swiftly by the beginning of a whole new
age, with the day star (Christ) ruling over all men.[/quote]
Yes, many things are converging just as they were during the
reign of Adrian VI. He found his task impossible. After he
died, the army of the Emperor entered Rome and took Clement VII
prisoner. Blood ran in the streets of Rome.
[quote]The RC Church may come to a complete end under Pope
Francis. So also may the Church of England, because when Queen
Elisabeth dies, neither Charles or William are interested in
carrying on the role of head of the church. What remains of both
of these may simply merge back together into a shadow of their
former selves. Who knows?[/quote]It may be that the Catholic
Church becomes more the way it was before it was the official
church of the Roman Empire. Each Bishop was more autonomous.
Today, the Vatican is weighed down with appointing Bishops,
transferring them (contrary to traditional canon law), and then
taking the blame for anything that goes wrong.
The number of Cardinals has increased over the years. This may
have been inspired. It's limited now to 120 in theory. These
120 may form the new seeds of the Apostolic Church. Instead of
being rigidly controlled from the center, we may find them
forming unions with the Anglicans and Orthodox. This would a
lot easier without the claims of Rome about this and that.
Some of the more troublesome obstacles to union were the result
of the rise of Protestantism. Up popped the Protestants and
said things; and then the Popes got more dogmatic and made more
doctrines mandatory. The Infallibility of the Pope, and the
Immaculate Conception were not official dogmas until recently;
but they are divisive doctrines. Even how the Catholic Church
talks about the Bible is not that old. They had no official
ruling on this until after Luther began his assault on the books
that had been traditionally accepted without much controversy.
The Catholics struck back, making things official; and their
inclusion of the deuterocanonicals was controversial and a
possible sticking point if Protestants wanted to reconcile.
Catholic views on birth control are based on Augustinian views.
If the Catholic Church were less controlled from the center, I
think we'd see them become less dogmatically opposed to birth
control. Other churches do not see Augustine the same way.
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