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#Post#: 16083--------------------------------------------------
Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: HOLLAND Date: September 2, 2017, 11:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The storytelling behind this cinematic scene is very good. One
is a samurai, Master Akatsuka, at the top of his social class,
the other is Zatoichi, a blind swordman, a masseur by trade,
nearly at the bottom socially, if not an outcast.
The scene is good because it is a story about mercy. I hope you
all like it!
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hvc1Ae-YCU
#Post#: 16085--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: Kerry Date: September 3, 2017, 4:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I took it as a story of shame too because the samurai tells his
assistant to kill the man the masseur is fighting to protect.
Not very manly, eh? And his assistant winds up dead since the
masseur killed him by throwing his sword. I take that to mean
he could have probably killed the samurai just as quickly if he
had wanted but didn't.
#Post#: 16090--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: HOLLAND Date: September 3, 2017, 8:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1268.msg16085#msg16085
date=1504429346]
I took it as a story of shame too because the samurai tells his
assistant to kill the man the masseur is fighting to protect.
Not very manly, eh?[/quote]
I'm not sure of the answer to this question, Kerry, since I have
not seen the full movie. I understand that the Bushido Code
demands compliance to one's daimyo in all matters and so if the
daimyo demands, in obedience to the shogun, the death of
someone, it is to be carried out. These governmental killings
would be without distinction and could involve unarmed men,
women and children. The only people that would be exempt from
this killing, or partially exempt, would be the higher social
orders, where some restrictions would apply. Zatoichi, a feared
swordsman, would have some status, but the family he was
guarding would not have any status. It is not a reflection of
manhood on the part of the samurai how the family would be
killed. The question of manhood would be the contest between
Akatsuka and Zatoichi. If either man behaved cowardly, then
that man's honor could be questioned.
[quote]And his assistant winds up dead since the masseur killed
him by throwing his sword. I take that to mean he could have
probably killed the samurai just as quickly if he had wanted but
didn't.
[/quote]
This I think is unlikely in that, historically, skilled samurai
swordsmen were known to be able to defeat spears thrown at them
by blade deflection technique. A cane sword, not made for
throwing, makes for a slow moving missile as the scene seems to
indicate. We can see that the sword was thrown at the back of
the other samurai who couldn't defend against it because he was
unaware of it. If Akatsuka had been the target of a thrown cane
sword, I think that he would have deflected it with his blade
and cut Zatoichi down.
I think that within the context of Japanese culture, the act of
mercy portrayed in the scene is highly radical on the part of
Master Akatsuka. I think he realized at a certain point that
there is a humanity in the lower classes that has to be
affirmed. In this insight, he transcends his culture and enters
into universal human values. (I am sure that both he and
Zatoichi, at a certain level, regretted the death of the samurai
who had died in the course of his duty to his daimyo. But
again, a samurai is united with death in the course of his duty.
A samurai knows he must die at some point in his career.
Bushido is a culture of death, both men would have understood.)
The last part of the scene is haunting. Zatoichi, though blind,
knows that he has injured Akatsuka, and is concerned for the man
he has injured. The mercy, in a final sense, encompasses all of
the persons in the scene . . .
#Post#: 16091--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: Kerry Date: September 4, 2017, 7:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1268.msg16090#msg16090
date=1504489003]
I'm not sure of the answer to this question, Kerry, since I have
not seen the full movie. I understand that the Bushido Code
demands compliance to one's daimyo in all matters and so if the
daimyo demands, in obedience to the shogun, the death of
someone, it is to be carried out. These governmental killings
would be without distinction and could involve unarmed men,
women and children. The only people that would be exempt from
this killing, or partially exempt, would be the higher social
orders, where some restrictions would apply. Zatoichi, a feared
swordsman, would have some status, but the family he was
guarding would not have any status. It is not a reflection of
manhood on the part of the samurai how the family would be
killed. The question of manhood would be the contest between
Akatsuka and Zatoichi. If either man behaved cowardly, then
that man's honor could be questioned. [/quote]I don't know if
there is anyone you could call a clearly defined Bushido Code
that held true throughout time and across all Japan. It seems
to have had variations.
[b]
Some versions of Bushidō include compassion for those of
lower station, and for the preservation of one's name.[9] Early
bushidō literature further enforces the requirement to
conduct oneself with calmness, fairness, justice, and
propriety.[9] The relationship between learning and the way of
the warrior is clearly articulated, one being a natural partner
to the other.[9]
Other pundits pontificating on the warrior philosophy covered
methods of raising children, appearance, and grooming, but all
of this may be seen as part of one's constant preparation for
death—to die a good death with one's honor intact, the ultimate
aim in a life lived according to bushidō. Indeed, a "good
death" is its own reward, and by no means assurance of "future
rewards" in the afterlife. Some samurai, though certainly not
all (e.g., Amakusa Shiro), have throughout history held such
aims or beliefs in disdain, or expressed the awareness that
their station—as it involves killing—precludes such reward,
especially in Buddhism. Japanese beliefs surrounding the Samurai
and the afterlife are complex and often contradictory, while the
soul of a noble warrior suffering in hell or as a lingering
spirit occasionally appears in Japanese art and literature, so
does the idea of a warrior being reborn upon a lotus throne in
paradise[31]
Eight virtues of Bushidō (as envisioned by Nitobe
Inazō)[edit]
The Bushidō code is typified by eight virtues:[32]
Righteousness (義 gi)
Be acutely honest throughout your dealings with all people.
Believe in justice, not from other people, but from yourself. To
the true warrior, all points of view are deeply considered
regarding honesty, justice and integrity. Warriors make a full
commitment to their decisions.
Heroic Courage (勇 yū)
Hiding like a turtle in a shell is not living at all. A true
warrior must have heroic courage. It is absolutely risky. It is
living life completely, fully and wonderfully. Heroic courage is
not blind. It is intelligent and strong.
Benevolence, Compassion (仁 jin)
Through intense training and hard work the true warrior becomes
quick and strong. They are not as most people. They develop a
power that must be used for good. They have compassion. They
help their fellow men at every opportunity. If an opportunity
does not arise, they go out of their way to find one.
Respect (礼 rei)
True warriors have no reason to be cruel. They do not need to
prove their strength. Warriors are not only respected for their
strength in battle, but also by their dealings with others. The
true strength of a warrior becomes apparent during difficult
times.
Integrity (誠 makoto)
When warriors say that they will perform an action, it is as
good as done. Nothing will stop them from completing what they
say they will do. They do not have to 'give their word'. They do
not have to 'promise'. Speaking and doing are the same action.
Honour (名誉 meiyo)
Warriors have only one judge of honor and character, and this is
themselves. Decisions they make and how these decisions are
carried out are a reflection of whom they truly are. You cannot
hide from yourself.
Duty and Loyalty (忠義 chūgi)
Warriors are responsible for everything that they have done and
everything that they have said, and all of the consequences that
follow. They are immensely loyal to all of those in their care.
To everyone that they are responsible for, they remain fiercely
true.[/b]
I watched it twice and hadn't noticed he got it in the back.
That brings up another question -- how did the masseur know the
other guy had his back to him? It seems hard to believe a
blind could fight that well in hand-to-hand combat let alone be
able to predict the other guy's position. There was an air of
improbability to me in most of the scene. The snow was
distracting -- I kept noticing the "snow" falling in front of
the actors but none was falling on them.
It looked like an idealized version of someone's idea about
Japanese society to me. The Japanese seem keen on ways of
dodging reality and pursuing ideal forms that often run counter
to reality.
So the guy made dirty pictures. The Japanese are famous for
their ability to ignore things like that. It's a society that
demands the ability to "not hear" conversations through paper
walls. If you hear something, you must ignore it and never talk
about it. The Japanese double-thinking about sex is still
around, but in different forms. For example, dirty films are
okay but only if you pixelate certain areas. On the other
hand, it's fine to depict almost anything, even illegal acts
like having sex with children, if it's a drawing and not a
photo. Prostitution is nominally against the law; but oh, there
are so many ways they get around that.
HTML https://matadornetwork.com/nights/inside-japans-freaky-themed-bath-houses-and-bars-nsfw/<br
/>
A Russian Prince, it might have been Nicholas II before he
became the Czar, visited Japan while he was in the Russian Navy.
He didn't aim to meet the Japanese Emperor -- but he did. When
he met the Imperial family, he tried out some of the Japanese he
knew. Up went the ladies' fans along with tittering when he
started speaking in Japanese because everyone at court knew
where he had picked up his Japanese -- in the red-light
district. Yet officially no one paid any attention to it.
[quote]I think that within the context of Japanese culture, the
act of mercy portrayed in the scene is highly radical on the
part of Master Akatsuka. I think he realized at a certain point
that there is a humanity in the lower classes that has to be
affirmed.[/quote]I interpreted it to mean that he couldn't kill
the masseur and retain his honor.
The guy he wanted to kill also was honorable, offering to allow
himself to be killed so the masseur wouldn't be in danger. All
he asked was for the woman and child to be taken care of. I
think that was another factor bringing about the change in his
attitude.
[quote]In this insight, he transcends his culture and enters
into universal human values. (I am sure that both he and
Zatoichi, at a certain level, regretted the death of the samurai
who had died in the course of his duty to his daimyo. But
again, a samurai is united with death in the course of his duty.
A samurai knows he must die at some point in his career.
Bushido is a culture of death, both men would have understood.)
The last part of the scene is haunting. Zatoichi, though blind,
knows that he has injured Akatsuka, and is concerned for the man
he has injured. The mercy, in a final sense, encompasses all of
the persons in the scene . . .
[/quote]I had so many questions in my mind, I didn't reach a
real conclusion. I think you're right that this is likely the
conclusion or lesson intended by the scene; but I ask what kind
of person was that fellow who made the dirty pictures? He had
had sex with the woman and forgotten all about her, didn't know
he had a child. How did that happen? Should we believe that he
suddenly became a different man because he found out he had a
son?
#Post#: 16096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: Kerry Date: September 5, 2017, 4:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That scene may be relevant today in a way it couldn't have been
in the past. The samurai expresses the idea of strict obedience
and of how the law does not allow mercy. In other words, he's
almost reduced himself to an automaton without free will or
feeling. He was trying to be a robot. Today that kind of
automaton which obeys the powers that be without question is
becoming possible with the development of robot soldiers and
robot policemen.
Computer algorithms have been shown to have a racist bias. Do
we want police robots that reflect similar biases and who obey
their algorithms automatically?
HTML http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2017/09/04/the-regulatory-future-of-algorithms/
There is an increasing number of reports that automated
decisions can bring about negative consequences for individuals.
A classic example of this is the system used by US courts to
predict the likelihood of a convicted criminal committing
another crime in the future, where the arrested person must
answer a number of very detailed questions about their life,
family, education, and friends. Each answer is assigned a
specific score and a specially prepared mathematical model
estimates the person’s likelihood to reoffend. This assessment
is submitted to the court and may affect the decision on further
detention (in due course of the trial) and in some states even
affects the extent of the penalty. An investigation conducted by
the ProPublica portal found that the whole model is based on
many misconceptions and duplicates racist stereotypes.
Journalists have proven that black people were judged worse than
white, even though they committed the same offences and did not
have previous convictions.
Algorithmic bias isn’t a new problem. Accusations of
discrimination were directed towards London’s St George’s
Hospital Medical School back in the 1980s. In an attempt to
manage the recruitment process, the college decided to implement
an automated candidate assessment system. This new solution was
supposed to be faster and more objective. Unfortunately, as it
turned out after time, the system discriminated against women
and people with non-European-sounding names. The creator of the
model underlying the new admissions process had decided to use
data on how admissions staff made decisions in the past. However
the problem was that these old decisions were fraught with
prejudices: for example, independent of their academic
qualifications, women overall were less likely to be considered.
#Post#: 16112--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: HOLLAND Date: September 5, 2017, 6:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1268.msg16091#msg16091
date=1504526508]
I don't know if there is anyone you could call a clearly defined
Bushido Code that held true throughout time and across all
Japan. It seems to have had variations.
. . . [/quote]
That is correct, Kerry.
[quote]I watched it twice and hadn't noticed he got it in the
back. That brings up another question -- how did the masseur
know the other guy had his back to him? It seems hard to
believe a blind could fight that well in hand-to-hand combat let
alone be able to predict the other guy's position. There was an
air of improbability to me in most of the scene.[/quote]
For blind people, hearing can become acute. If you understand
how feet placement, distance and the sound of the manipulation
of how a sword is being handled, it can become plausible to a
knowing swordsman. Zatoichi utilized a backhand sword defense
that heavily involved deflection of slashing blows. He seems to
have had a repertoire that worked on that fact that the katana
sword is primarily used for slashing distance blows. Japanese
sword technique does not utilize the Western technique which
involves the riposte in which a blind person (or a Japanese
swordsman) would have no defense against. If you noticed,
Zatoichi closed in towards the man with his shorter sword
seeking to stab him from behind where he is usually defenseless.
From all this I see how the swordfight scene was logically
connected. The only improbable thing I saw was when Zatoichi
split the log in two with a downward stroke with his sword in
the backhand position. That can't be done. The backhand
position is only used for sword deflection, not for cutting.
It is most likely that the full story line will indicate that
Zatoichi was probably a gifted swordsman prior to or after his
blindness or was taught by a gifted teacher.
[quote]The snow was distracting -- I kept noticing the "snow"
falling in front of the actors but none was falling on
them.[/quote]
That's right. It was a special effect added later to the scene.
:D
[quote]It looked like an idealized version of someone's idea
about Japanese society to me. The Japanese seem keen on ways of
dodging reality and pursuing ideal forms that often run counter
to reality.[/quote]
I agree
[quote]So the guy made dirty pictures. The Japanese are famous
for their ability to ignore things like that. It's a society
that demands the ability to "not hear" conversations through
paper walls. If you hear something, you must ignore it and
never talk about it. The Japanese double-thinking about sex is
still around, but in different forms. For example, dirty
films are okay but only if you pixelate certain areas. On the
other hand, it's fine to depict almost anything, even illegal
acts like having sex with children, if it's a drawing and not a
photo. Prostitution is nominally against the law; but oh, there
are so many ways they get around that.
HTML https://matadornetwork.com/nights/inside-japans-freaky-themed-bath-houses-and-bars-nsfw/<br
/>[/quote]
I would agree. I haven't seen the movie and I interpreted the
forbidden illustrations as not involving pornography but rather
designs for Western gunpowder weapons. In that period of
history, there was little concern for pornography. The
paintings and block prints from that time were and continue to
be famous and in demand. Weapons and weapon designs that could
endanger the Shogunate would be another matter. It is very easy
to call something a scandal if it involves the possibility of
upsetting the balance of power in Japanese society. Scandal in
this instance could be considered a euphemism of a deeper, more
serious issue.
[quote]. . .
The guy he wanted to kill also was honorable, offering to allow
himself to be killed so the masseur wouldn't be in danger. All
he asked was for the woman and child to be taken care of. I
think that was another factor bringing about the change in his
attitude.[/quote]
I think that this is important for interpreting the scene. A
samurai would always be impressed with bravery. He had to know
the man was scared but still offered to sacrifice himself to
protect the masseur and his family. This changes a samurai's
estimation of a person even if it is not disclosed.
[quote]I had so many questions in my mind, I didn't reach a
real conclusion. I think you're right that this is likely the
conclusion or lesson intended by the scene; but I ask what kind
of person was that fellow who made the dirty pictures? He had
had sex with the woman and forgotten all about her, didn't know
he had a child. How did that happen? Should we believe that he
suddenly became a different man because he found out he had a
son?
[/quote]
These are good questions. I'm thinking that the scene does
disclose answers. She is clearly bonded to the man. The man is
very protective of his young son by the way he was holding him.
He is a different man, possibly. We have to remember that he is
a victim of coercion.
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1268.msg16096#msg16096
date=1504605095]
That scene may be relevant today in a way it couldn't have been
in the past. The samurai expresses the idea of strict obedience
and of how the law does not allow mercy. In other words, he's
almost reduced himself to an automaton without free will or
feeling. He was trying to be a robot.[/quote]
I think that this is correct. Historically, samurai obedience
was suppose to be unquestioning. A samurai is suppose to
suppress his feelings in the carrying out of his duty. This is
where Akatsuka is so contrary to his own values. He moves into
universal human values by offering mercy and conceding to
Zatoichi that the masseur had won. Akatsuka had affirmed his
own humanity.
[quote]Today that kind of automaton which obeys the powers that
be without question is becoming possible with the development of
robot soldiers and robot policemen.
. . .
[/quote]
I agree. That is something that can make the future a dark
place if it is not prevented . . .
#Post#: 16119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: Kerry Date: September 7, 2017, 8:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1268.msg16112#msg16112
date=1504655091]
For blind people, hearing can become acute. If you understand
how feet placement, distance and the sound of the manipulation
of how a sword is being handled, it can become plausible to a
knowing swordsman.[/quote]Possibly, possibly, but it seemed
improbable to me. However, that might be irrelevant to a
certain extent. The real point, perhaps, is that the apparently
blind man could see more than the apparently sighted man.
Which one was truly blind? [quote]Zatoichi utilized a backhand
sword defense that heavily involved deflection of slashing
blows. He seems to have had a repertoire that worked on that
fact that the katana sword is primarily used for slashing
distance blows. Japanese sword technique does not utilize the
Western technique which involves the riposte in which a blind
person (or a Japanese swordsman) would have no defense against.
If you noticed, Zatoichi closed in towards the man with his
shorter sword seeking to stab him from behind where he is
usually defenseless. From all this I see how the swordfight
scene was logically connected. The only improbable thing I saw
was when Zatoichi split the log in two with a downward stroke
with his sword in the backhand position. That can't be done.
The backhand position is only used for sword deflection, not for
cutting. [/quote]
I didn't notice which side of the sword was used there. That
might have been the actor's mistake. It looked to me as if the
log had already been split and was there waiting for a blow to
separate it.
[quote]It is most likely that the full story line will indicate
that Zatoichi was probably a gifted swordsman prior to or after
his blindness or was taught by a gifted teacher.[/quote]Another
unanswered question. But really, sometimes films can be too
obvious.
[quote]That's right. It was a special effect added later to the
scene. :D [/quote]Do you think? I know Hollywood sometimes
uses cornflakes that have been painted white to simulate snow.
It looked like corn flakes to me. 8)
[quote]I would agree. I haven't seen the movie and I
interpreted the forbidden illustrations as not involving
pornography but rather designs for Western gunpowder weapons.
In that period of history, there was little concern for
pornography. The paintings and block prints from that time were
and continue to be famous and in demand. Weapons and weapon
designs that could endanger the Shogunate would be another
matter. It is very easy to call something a scandal if it
involves the possibility of upsetting the balance of power in
Japanese society. Scandal in this instance could be considered
a euphemism of a deeper, more serious issue. [/quote]
I found out it was pornography from a movie review at
jlwroot.woodpress.com
HTML https://jlwroot.wordpress.com/2014/06/14/zatoichi-challenged-dir-kenji-misumi-1967/:
In the tradition of Chess Expert, the opening of Challenged
establishes an important character within the plot. A mysterious
ronin observes Ichi’s opening scuffle with some bounty-hunting
yakuza, and commends his sword skills. This warrior, Akatsuka,
continuously comes and goes from the narrative, and shifts from
being a new friend of Ichi’s to becoming his foe. His actions
greatly affect Ichi’s involvement in yet another conspiracy.
After coming across a dying woman at an inn, Ichi takes her six
year old son (Ryota) to be reunited with his father. But he is
an artist who is being coerced by yakuza to make lurid designs
on pottery for a pornographic black market (as the shogunate
forbade such items in nineteenth century Japan). In the end,
Akatsuka’s intervention in this plot clashes with Ichi’s
involvement.
I was taken aback a bit by that piece of information. I
wondered if it was historically true. I thought the Japanese
found their racy pillow books quite acceptable and always had.
I just discovered that apparently, this prohibition against
pornography was a historical fact.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Empire_of_Japan
With the Meiji Restoration, the focus of state censorship of
information shifted to protection of the Emperor and the
fledgling Meiji government. Ideals of liberal democracy were
considered dangerously subversive, and were targeted with the
Publication Ordinance of 1869 (出版条例
Shuppan Jōrei), which banned certain subjects (including
pornography), and subjected publications to pre-publication
review and approvals. Initially intended to serve as a copyright
law, it was quickly adopted as a method of controlling public
anti-government criticism.
With the establishment of the cabinet system of government, the
Home Ministry was assigned this task, and issued a variety of
regulations aimed specifically at newspapers. The growth of the
Freedom and People's Rights Movement caused a reaction by
conservative elements within the government to pass strict libel
laws in 1875, and also a draconian Press Ordinance of 1875
(新聞紙条例 Shimbunshi Jōrei)
that was so severe that it was labeled the “newspaper abolition
law” as it empowered the Home Minister to ban or shut down
offending newspapers which the government deemed offensive to
public order or state security. The ordinance was further
strengthened in revisions of 1887, which extended penalties to
authors as well as publishers, and also restricted the import of
foreign language newspapers with objectionable material.
I found the use of the word "scandal" interesting since it
seemed to me that sending agents around killing people could
create more of a scandal. Surely people would talk about the
killed people.
[quote]I think that this is important for interpreting the
scene. A samurai would always be impressed with bravery. He
had to know the man was scared but still offered to sacrifice
himself to protect the masseur and his family. This changes a
samurai's estimation of a person even if it is not disclosed.
[/quote]
Yes, it's something the viewer has to supply for himself.
[quote]These are good questions. I'm thinking that the scene
does disclose answers. She is clearly bonded to the man. The
man is very protective of his young son by the way he was
holding him. He is a different man, possibly. We have to
remember that he is a victim of coercion.[/quote]
This could be romanticizing the situation. After all, he could
have reported the organized crime gang who forced him to
produce the pornographic images. I can understand the woman
thinking and hoping all would be well when the father got
returned to her; but I think the Japanese can be overly
sentimental at times.
How prepared were they to be parents when the masseur has to
tell them to cover the child's eyes? He seemed to be thinking
more about the child's welfare than they were.
[quote]I think that this is correct. Historically, samurai
obedience was suppose to be unquestioning. A samurai is suppose
to suppress his feelings in the carrying out of his duty. This
is where Akatsuka is so contrary to his own values. He moves
into universal human values by offering mercy and conceding to
Zatoichi that the masseur had won. Akatsuka had affirmed his
own humanity.[/quote]I think honor would go before obedience.
Ritual suicide might be preferred over blind obedience to what
you know is wrong. On that point, the samurai received a
lesson from two individuals who preferred death with honor over
doing what was wrong or injurious to others.
I learned at Wikipedia that the samurai class was under assault
during the Meiji Restoration. Most were losing their
positions. I wonder if this fellow thought he had to be blindly
obedient because his own safety of working within the government
bureaucracy depended on it.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration
Whatever their true intentions, the oligarchs embarked on
another slow and deliberate process to abolish the samurai
class. First, in 1873, it was announced that the samurai
stipends were to be taxed on a rolling basis. Later, in 1874,
the samurai were given the option to convert their stipends into
government bonds. Finally, in 1876, this commutation was made
compulsory.[citation needed]
To reform the military, the government instituted nationwide
conscription in 1873, mandating that every male would serve for
four years in the armed forces upon turning 21, followed by
three more years in the reserves. One of the primary differences
between the samurai and peasant classes was the right to bear
arms; this ancient privilege was suddenly extended to every male
in the nation. Furthermore, samurai were no longer allowed to
walk about town bearing a sword or weapon to show their status.
This led to a series of riots from disgruntled samurai. One of
the major riots was the one led by Saigō Takamori, the
Satsuma Rebellion, which eventually turned into a civil war.
This rebellion was, however, put down swiftly by the newly
formed Imperial Japanese Army, trained in Western tactics and
weapons, even though the core of the new army was the Tokyo
police force, which was largely composed of former samurai. This
sent a strong message to the dissenting samurai that their time
was indeed over. There were fewer subsequent samurai uprisings
and the distinction became all but a name as the samurai joined
the new society. The ideal of samurai military spirit lived on
in romanticized form and was often used as propaganda during the
early 20th century wars of the Empire of Japan.However, it is
equally true that the majority of samurai were content despite
having their status abolished. Many found employment in the
government bureaucracy, which resembled an elite class in its
own right. The samurai, being better educated than most of the
population, became teachers, gun makers, government officials,
or military officers. While the formal title of samurai was
abolished, the elitist spirit that characterized the samurai
class lived on.
If the film was set in the time after mandatory conscription was
put into place, that might explain where the masseur picked up
his skill with a sword.
#Post#: 16150--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: HOLLAND Date: September 8, 2017, 7:45 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1268.msg16119#msg16119
date=1504790506]
Possibly, possibly, but it seemed improbable to me. However,
that might be irrelevant to a certain extent. The real point,
perhaps, is that the apparently blind man could see more than
the apparently sighted man. Which one was truly blind?[/quote]
Another question could be asked, Kerry: to what extent was
Zatoichi blind? He could be considered blind but still be able
to distinquish light and shadow. If this is the case, he can
follow and defend against a samurai though a faint sensed
imagery as well as by hearing.
[quote]I didn't notice which side of the sword was used there.
That might have been the actor's mistake. It looked to me as
if the log had already been split and was there waiting for a
blow to separate it. [/quote]
I think you're right on that. I suspect that that is part of
the scene that they should have cut but probably found that they
couldn't make do with the remaining material given how closely
the action points were filmed.
[quote]Another unanswered question. But really, sometimes films
can be too obvious.
. . . I know Hollywood sometimes uses cornflakes that have been
painted white to simulate snow. It looked like corn flakes to
me.[/quote]
Actually, it was a film of a snowstorm that was superimposed
onto the other film. I suspect that a snow making machine was
used to supply the ground snow. I scene was filmed outdoors and
most likely in a Japanese winter.
[quote]8)I found out it was pornography from a movie review at
jlwroot.woodpress.com
HTML https://jlwroot.wordpress.com/2014/06/14/zatoichi-challenged-dir-kenji-misumi-1967/:
In the tradition of Chess Expert, the opening of Challenged
establishes an important character within the plot. A mysterious
ronin observes Ichi’s opening scuffle with some bounty-hunting
yakuza, and commends his sword skills. This warrior, Akatsuka,
continuously comes and goes from the narrative, and shifts from
being a new friend of Ichi’s to becoming his foe. His actions
greatly affect Ichi’s involvement in yet another conspiracy.
After coming across a dying woman at an inn, Ichi takes her six
year old son (Ryota) to be reunited with his father. But he is
an artist who is being coerced by yakuza to make lurid designs
on pottery for a pornographic black market (as the shogunate
forbade such items in nineteenth century Japan). In the end,
Akatsuka’s intervention in this plot clashes with Ichi’s
involvement.
I was taken aback a bit by that piece of information. I
wondered if it was historically true. I thought the Japanese
found their racy pillow books quite acceptable and always had.
I just discovered that apparently, this prohibition against
pornography was a historical fact.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Empire_of_Japan
With the Meiji Restoration, the focus of state censorship of
information shifted to protection of the Emperor and the
fledgling Meiji government. Ideals of liberal democracy were
considered dangerously subversive, and were targeted with the
Publication Ordinance of 1869 (出版条例
Shuppan Jōrei), which banned certain subjects (including
pornography), and subjected publications to pre-publication
review and approvals. Initially intended to serve as a copyright
law, it was quickly adopted as a method of controlling public
anti-government criticism.
With the establishment of the cabinet system of government, the
Home Ministry was assigned this task, and issued a variety of
regulations aimed specifically at newspapers. The growth of the
Freedom and People's Rights Movement caused a reaction by
conservative elements within the government to pass strict libel
laws in 1875, and also a draconian Press Ordinance of 1875
(新聞紙条例 Shimbunshi Jōrei)
that was so severe that it was labeled the “newspaper abolition
law” as it empowered the Home Minister to ban or shut down
offending newspapers which the government deemed offensive to
public order or state security. The ordinance was further
strengthened in revisions of 1887, which extended penalties to
authors as well as publishers, and also restricted the import of
foreign language newspapers with objectionable material.
I found the use of the word "scandal" interesting since it
seemed to me that sending agents around killing people could
create more of a scandal. Surely people would talk about the
killed people. . . . I can understand the woman thinking and
hoping all would be well when the father got returned to her;
but I think the Japanese can be overly sentimental at
times.[/quote]
I have confirmed the film synopsis from other sources as well.
It is strange that the case is described as a "scandal" given
that the Japan of the "pillow book" could hardly be shocked at
anything, sexually. This takes me back to the idea that the
film is actually something more, and that euphemisms are being
used: a story is fabricated to cover over another, more
dangerous story. I guess that the film would have to be seen to
catch the cultural nuances.
[quote]How prepared were they to be parents when the masseur has
to tell them to cover the child's eyes? He seemed to be
thinking more about the child's welfare than they were.[/quote]
This seems to indicate that Zatoichi once had sight and probably
seen something horrific. This would also, partially, explain
some of his talent in swordsmanship.
[quote]I think honor would go before obedience. Ritual suicide
might be preferred over blind obedience to what you know is
wrong. On that point, the samurai received a lesson from two
individuals who preferred death with honor over doing what was
wrong or injurious to others.[/quote]
I would agree.
[quote]I learned at Wikipedia that the samurai class was under
assault during the Meiji Restoration. Most were losing their
positions. I wonder if this fellow thought he had to be blindly
obedient because his own safety of working within the government
bureaucracy depended on it.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration
Whatever their true intentions, the oligarchs embarked on
another slow and deliberate process to abolish the samurai
class. First, in 1873, it was announced that the samurai
stipends were to be taxed on a rolling basis. Later, in 1874,
the samurai were given the option to convert their stipends into
government bonds. Finally, in 1876, this commutation was made
compulsory.[citation needed]
To reform the military, the government instituted nationwide
conscription in 1873, mandating that every male would serve for
four years in the armed forces upon turning 21, followed by
three more years in the reserves. One of the primary differences
between the samurai and peasant classes was the right to bear
arms; this ancient privilege was suddenly extended to every male
in the nation. Furthermore, samurai were no longer allowed to
walk about town bearing a sword or weapon to show their status.
This led to a series of riots from disgruntled samurai. One of
the major riots was the one led by Saigō Takamori, the
Satsuma Rebellion, which eventually turned into a civil war.
This rebellion was, however, put down swiftly by the newly
formed Imperial Japanese Army, trained in Western tactics and
weapons, even though the core of the new army was the Tokyo
police force, which was largely composed of former samurai. This
sent a strong message to the dissenting samurai that their time
was indeed over. There were fewer subsequent samurai uprisings
and the distinction became all but a name as the samurai joined
the new society. The ideal of samurai military spirit lived on
in romanticized form and was often used as propaganda during the
early 20th century wars of the Empire of Japan.However, it is
equally true that the majority of samurai were content despite
having their status abolished. Many found employment in the
government bureaucracy, which resembled an elite class in its
own right. The samurai, being better educated than most of the
population, became teachers, gun makers, government officials,
or military officers. While the formal title of samurai was
abolished, the elitist spirit that characterized the samurai
class lived on.
If the film was set in the time after mandatory conscription was
put into place, that might explain where the masseur picked up
his skill with a sword.
[/quote]
This means of acquiring sword skill on the part of the masseur
is quite plausible. I tend to think that the samurai were glad
to put down the sword at the end of the Shogunate. Mastery of
the sword and its path of death is really too demanding for most
individuals. I think that the samurai class were quite happy to
retain power as they evolved into new social classes when it
could be more profitable and less threatening for them.
#Post#: 16153--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: HOLLAND Date: September 8, 2017, 10:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
^^^I've watched the film, Kerry, on Youtube. It is such as the
reviewers said, a story concerning artistic pornography. I
think that it would be culturally strange to classical Japanese
culture. The movie refers to the cultural change of Japan
during the ending of the Shogunate with its hostility to
pornography. Gonzo was really gonzo, so to speak . . .
#Post#: 16155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Possibly The Greatest Japanese Cinematic Swordfight
By: Kerry Date: September 9, 2017, 7:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1268.msg16150#msg16150
date=1504917908]
Another question could be asked, Kerry: to what extent was
Zatoichi blind? He could be considered blind but still be able
to distinquish light and shadow. If this is the case, he can
follow and defend against a samurai though a faint sensed
imagery as well as by hearing. [/quote]Perhaps he had cataracts.
The blurry look of his eyes might have been meant to indicate
that.
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