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#Post#: 14791--------------------------------------------------
Trump on the American Civil War
DIR By: HOLLAND
Date: May 1, 2017, 8:27 pm
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Trump appears to have a poor understanding of American (and
probably World) history. He made some curious statements
regarding the American Civil War and seems to have no idea as to
how long the controversy regarding slavery had been going on in
American society, and how intractable the issue was for easy
resolution. I should point out that Andrew Jackson died in 1845
and was not alive when the Civil War started.
As was reported by the Associated Press:
HTML https://www.apnews.com/4d0e9994c6e445c689025e40a8a4308b/Trump-makes-puzzling-claim-about-Andrew-Jackson,-Civil-War
--- Quote ---
> NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump made puzzling claims
about Andrew Jackson and the Civil War in an interview,
suggesting he was uncertain about the origin of the conflict
while claiming that Jackson was upset about a war that started
16 years after his death.
>
> Trump, who has at times shown a shaky grasp of U.S. history,
said he wonders why issues "could not have been worked out" in
order to prevent the secession of 11 Southern states and a war
that lasted four years and killed more than 600,000 soldiers.
>
> "People don't realize, you know, the Civil War, if you think
about it, why?" Trump said in an interview with The Washington
Examiner, according to a transcript released Monday. "People
don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why
could that one not have been worked out?"
>
> Trump ruminated after lauding Jackson, the populist president
whom he and his staff have cited as a role model. He suggested
that if Jackson had been president "a little later, you wouldn't
have had the Civil War."
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 14793--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trump on the American Civil War
DIR By: Kerry
Date: May 2, 2017, 1:04 am
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We might still have slavery in the US if Jackson had been
around and elected President in 1860.
I've largely given up trying to decipher what Trump means. If
his thoughts are coherent, they don't always come out that way.
I heard something the other day on NPR -- and it left me
wondering. He was talking about North Korea's missiles. "And
if that happens, we can't allow it to happen." It it happens,
there is no allowing or forbidding it since it already
happened. In this particular case, I think I know what he
meant to say -- but it didn't come logically.
It seems too that his cabinet doesn't take what he says too
seriously. He talked about South Korea paying for the missile
defense system. It annoyed some South Koreans -- it does look
like a protection racket, doesn't it? Then General McMaster
"clarified" for us all that the US would be paying for it.
It probably shouldn't be too big of a surprise if his knowledge
about the Civil War is sketchy when he doesn't seem that aware
about what is happening now in his own administration. I am
grateful that he has some good people and that generally
speaking he takes their advice.
#Post#: 14800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trump on the American Civil War
DIR By: HOLLAND
Date: May 2, 2017, 8:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kerry link ---
>
> We might still have slavery in the US if Jackson had been
around and elected President in 1860.
--- End Quote ---
I would agree, Kerry. Jackson had little respect for American
Indians and black people. His forcing of the Native tribes to
the West of the Mississippi was particularly shameful and could
be considered criminal - bordering on genocide. Given this, I
think he would not be disposed, or have the steadfastness of
character to bring about the ending of slavery.
--- Quote ---
> I've largely given up trying to decipher what Trump means.
If his thoughts are coherent, they don't always come out that
way. I heard something the other day on NPR -- and it left me
wondering. He was talking about North Korea's missiles. "And
if that happens, we can't allow it to happen." It it happens,
there is no allowing or forbidding it since it already
happened. In this particular case, I think I know what he
meant to say -- but it didn't come logically.
--- End Quote ---
This is characteristic of habitual liars, who, deceiving and
self-deceiving, lose the significance of meaningful utterance.
For such people, words are only something to hang an illusion
on. Because of this, the loss of coherence of thought is an
inevitable consequence.
--- Quote ---
> It seems too that his cabinet doesn't take what he says too
seriously. He talked about South Korea paying for the missile
defense system. It annoyed some South Koreans -- it does look
like a protection racket, doesn't it? Then General McMaster
"clarified" for us all that the US would be paying for it.
--- End Quote ---
Agreed. And it could be considered a "protection racket" . . .
:D
--- Quote ---
> It probably shouldn't be too big of a surprise if his
knowledge about the Civil War is sketchy when he doesn't seem
that aware about what is happening now in his own
administration. I am grateful that he has some good people and
that generally speaking he takes their advice.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully, he will continue to do so, but given he is "a child
of the lie" serving the "Father of all lies", he will walk in
his illusions to the bitter end. Regrettably, he will drag our
country down with him if it all goes badly . . .
#Post#: 14825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trump on the American Civil War
DIR By: Kerry
Date: May 5, 2017, 6:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: HOLLAND link ---
>
> I would agree, Kerry. Jackson had little respect for American
Indians and black people. His forcing of the Native tribes to
the West of the Mississippi was particularly shameful and could
be considered criminal - bordering on genocide. Given this, I
think he would not be disposed, or have the steadfastness of
character to bring about the ending of slavery.
--- End Quote ---
I wouldn't mind in the least if the US Treasury stopped putting
him on $20 bills. I also thought it high time that Democrats
stopped having their Jefferson-Jackson dinners and was glad when
some groups renamed them. I wasn't that enthralled either when
I learned that President Trump was going to Nashville to
celebrate Jackson's 250th birthday. Why bother? Maybe he
learned something about history, but obviously not enough.
Jackson is also known for his ignoring the judicial system and
undermining the checks and balances as much as he could -- and
that case involved his ignoring the rights of the Cherokees and
what the Supreme Court said -- and Trump seems to have a similar
contempt for judges. Thankfully, I doubt Trump would go as
far as Jackson did. No, Jackson isn't my kind of hero.
#Post#: 14830--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trump on the American Civil War
DIR By: HOLLAND
Date: May 5, 2017, 10:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kerry link ---
>
> I wouldn't mind in the least if the US Treasury stopped
putting him on $20 bills.
--- End Quote ---
I agree, Kerry. I think it is time to put someone else on $20
bills. I think that Franklin Delano Roosevelt would be worthy
of that honor. (I think that Ronald Reagan should replace
Samuel Chase on the $500 bill, as well.)
--- Quote ---
> I also thought it high time that Democrats stopped having
their Jefferson-Jackson dinners and was glad when some groups
renamed them. I wasn't that enthralled either when I learned
that President Trump was going to Nashville to celebrate
Jackson's 250th birthday. Why bother? Maybe he learned
something about history, but obviously not enough.
>
> Jackson is also known for his ignoring the judicial system and
undermining the checks and balances as much as he could -- and
that case involved his ignoring the rights of the Cherokees and
what the Supreme Court said -- and Trump seems to have a similar
contempt for judges. Thankfully, I doubt Trump would go as
far as Jackson did. No, Jackson isn't my kind of hero.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree. It could be that Trump likes the man because of the
streak of authoritarianism that is in the man. A demagogue's
lust for power can run pretty deep.
On Morning Joe MSNBC, it was brought up, again, of Trump having
dementia - that Trump is not simply making errors but is
disclosing the mental aberrations of a person who has aged and
is no longer completely functional in his reasoning. The video
is as below:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmnGSvbrWiY
The historian Doris Kearns is one of the greatest authorities on
the Civil War. What she says is going to be definitive. What
is interesting is that for the MSNBC commentators, a lot of
things interconnect here about Trump. The Civil War statements
have to be seen in the larger context of who Trump is and of the
dilemma that he poses for the nation.
#Post#: 14846--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trump on the American Civil War
DIR By: Kerry
Date: May 7, 2017, 11:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: HOLLAND link ---
>
> I agree, Kerry. I think it is time to put someone else on $20
bills. I think that Franklin Delano Roosevelt would be worthy
of that honor. (I think that Ronald Reagan should replace
Samuel Chase on the $500 bill, as well.)
--- End Quote ---
I'm not that big on putting politicians on money. I think I'd
prefer to have Mrs. Roosevelt on it. As well, I think Reagan is
highly overrated. What did he do that was so great? I voted
for him the first time he ran; but then he didn't do much of
what he promised.
--- Quote ---
> I agree. It could be that Trump likes the man because of the
streak of authoritarianism that is in the man. A demagogue's
lust for power can run pretty deep.
--- End Quote ---
I don't doubt this. Trump seems to flatter other men that he
perceives as strong. He also seems baffled when everyone
doesn't like him when he puts on his own authoritarian act.
Me? I don't see this kind of "macho" man as being that strong.
It's mostly a put-on, an act. Often a compensation for feeling
inferior inwardly.
This reminds me of how Saddam Hussein went into a meltdown when
his chauffeur accidentally crossed the Iranian border. He was
so frightened, he asked his chauffeur to shoot him if any
Iranians showed up and it looked as if they would be captured.
Trump also has a habit of talking big; but then he meets the
person, he backs off. In other words, all his big talk is hot
air -- feel free to ignore it. To me, that also shows
something. Allegedly, the phone conversation he had with the
Australian PM wasn't as bad as had been reported; but the latest
oddity is how Trump complimented him, saying Australia had a
better health-care system than the US. Did he mean that or not?
Who knows? A spokesman said he didn't -- he was just being
"complimentary." Huh? What kind of person pays insincere
compliments? I say weak people do that, people who want
approval.
--- Quote ---
> On Morning Joe MSNBC, it was brought up, again, of Trump
having dementia - that Trump is not simply making errors but is
disclosing the mental aberrations of a person who has aged and
is no longer completely functional in his reasoning. The video
is as below:
>
> The historian Doris Kearns is one of the greatest authorities
on the Civil War. What she says is going to be definitive.
What is interesting is that for the MSNBC commentators, a lot of
things interconnect here about Trump. The Civil War statements
have to be seen in the larger context of who Trump is and of the
dilemma that he poses for the nation.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's something -- but I'm not sure it's dementia. He lived for
decades in a bubble where much of time, when he said something,
everyone around him went along with him. He went through
troubled times during the one bankruptcy; but I think the
pattern is still there of his wanting to believe that his ideas
about reality are what matters most. If others don't agree, we
see him calling them names or thinking they're out to get him.
I also reckon his two failed marriages may have wounded him in
ways not easy to spot; and I'm not sure how healthy the present
marriage is. What do you do if you believe the real reason,
perhaps the only reason, people want to be around you or have
you like them is because you're rich and powerful? Being rich,
powerful and famous can create its own mental problems. You
can see this in movie stars. Almost no one really knows the
real person. Even their marriage partners don't. Certainly the
news media doesn't -- so the star reads news stories about
himself that strike him as completely crazy. The rich and
famous can get stuck in a bubble then where they trust no one
else -- leaving them only their own ideas as real to them -- and
those ideas can be strange and become stranger over time when
there is no outside source for their ideas about reality.
I wondered about his claim that he had met Putin once. He later
denied he had. I think he was lying the first time, trying to
make himself look more important by claiming to have met him.
Why the switch then? Well, in a way, that's good news since it
shows he's in touch with reality now to know that claiming to
have met him would not be a positive thing.
The question I have is this: Does President Trump have any
friends or family who are there for him just because they are,
without wanting favors from him, without wanting money or
positions of power? Anyone? Does he feel anyone really loves
him, for himself and not for what they may get from him? I
don't have the answer to that; but he acts like someone who
doesn't trust other people, who thinks everyone else always has
an ulterior motive. When you think like that, you usually
aren't that grounded in reality since you don't trust
information from the outside unless it lines up with your own
ideas.
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