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#Post#: 14787--------------------------------------------------
Lamb of God
By: Kerry Date: April 30, 2017, 4:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It should be considered a rule that God is wise and never
created anything that could get so far out of control that it
had no solution. Indeed we can say that God can foresee problems
down the road which we humans do not; and in His Wisdom, He has
already provided the solution.
Thus when we read about Esther, we can believe one of two
things. We can believe she just happened to be there almost by
coincidence; or we can believe that God predicted what was
likely to happen and sent her, as one of His servants, to do the
job she did. We should believe the latter, I think.
Similarly, I believe God had His servants ready and waiting when
other problems arose, people like Pharaoh's daughter who rescued
Moses and Cyrus. Even if they are Gentiles, when God is ready
to use them, they become aware of Him and convert.
When God gave man free will, He may not have been able to
predict precisely when man would fall and how; but it seems
almost certain to me that given the many millions of men and
women, it was a given certainty that sooner or later, someone
would sin. Thus God in His Wisdom needed a solution for when
they did.
What then of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?
First let me say that the Jews believe the ram Abraham saw
caught by his horns in the thorns of the briars had existed
before the six days described in Genesis 1. Notice the briars,
a symbol of the thorns and thistles that sprang up. Compare too
to the crown of thorns at the Crucifixion.
The Jews also say this was the same sheep that Abel sacrificed.
How so? They say this sheep had been living in Paradise after
Abel sacrificed it. It showed up at the moment when Abraham
needed it.
This doesn't answer all the questions. Indeed it raises some.
Why did Abel sacrifice a sheep? Was it a sacrifice for his own
personal sins? If so, what sins had Abel committed?
#Post#: 14789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: paralambano Date: May 1, 2017, 4:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]It should be considered a rule that God is wise and never
created anything that could get so far out of control that it
had no solution. Indeed we can say that God can foresee problems
down the road which we humans do not; and in His Wisdom, He has
already provided the solution.
Thus when we read about Esther, we can believe one of two
things. We can believe she just happened to be there almost by
coincidence; or we can believe that God predicted what was
likely to happen and sent her, as one of His servants, to do the
job she did. We should believe the latter, I think.
Similarly, I believe God had His servants ready and waiting when
other problems arose, people like Pharaoh's daughter who rescued
Moses and Cyrus. Even if they are Gentiles, when God is ready
to use them, they become aware of Him and convert.
[/quote]
I agree that the divine solution is there with the apparent
problem. I would add that people who do God's will already have
an understanding that what is good is worthwhile perhaps in some
mysterious sense and thus in part have a rudimentary
understanding of God.
[quote]When God gave man free will, He may not have been able to
predict precisely when man would fall and how; but it seems
almost certain to me that given the many millions of men and
women, it was a given certainty that sooner or later, someone
would sin. Thus God in His Wisdom needed a solution for when
they did. [/quote]
I take one of the sins to be the belief that people could "hide"
from God's presence. When the Temple veil was torn in two at the
crucifixion, Paul says that believers enter the Holy of Holies
by the veil of Jesus' flesh also rent. It's not by matter that
one enters.
[quote]What then of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the
world? First let me say that the Jews believe the ram Abraham
saw caught by his horns in the thorns of the briars had existed
before the six days described in Genesis 1. Notice the briars,
a symbol of the thorns and thistles that sprang up. Compare too
to the crown of thorns at the Crucifixion. [/quote]
There's some discrepancy as to how Rev 13:8 might be read. Some
have it as the names written from the foundation of the world
and others the Lamb slain from then. Paul says it happened once
for all not many times (Hebrews 9:26). In any case, it's through
the rending of the flesh (matter) that one gets God
consciousness I believe.
[quote]This doesn't answer all the questions. Indeed it raises
some. Why did Abel sacrifice a sheep? Was it a sacrifice for
his own personal sins? If so, what sins had Abel committed?
[/quote]
Abel sacrificed from the purest, most innocent of his flock, the
firstlings. He was best reflective of and sending back to God
what he understood of God Himself, Life.
para . . . .
#Post#: 14792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: Kerry Date: May 1, 2017, 8:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1208.msg14789#msg14789
date=1493675777]
I agree that the divine solution is there with the apparent
problem. I would add that people who do God's will already have
an understanding that what is good is worthwhile perhaps in some
mysterious sense and thus in part have a rudimentary
understanding of God.[/quote]I think Abel was one of those
people who have an intuitive knowledge or understanding.
I don't insist that others agree with me -- but I am not sure
it's safe to read the early chapters of Genesis too literally.
For example, when we read that Cain offered the "fruit of the
ground" as his sacrifice. This had been "cursed" earlier. So
I see the "thorns and thistles" somewhat in this passage also.
But what did he offer? I think it was his physical body or
something somehow associated with the "vegetable body" -- that
body that stay alive even when awareness left, in a "vegetative"
state. The Jews say not only was this produce from the cursed
earth, it wasn't the best Cain had received. He gave of the
worst.
If we see this as relating to Passover, we could say Cain
offered yeast up as part of his sacrifice rather than try to get
rid of all the yeast to leave the best grain.
I see Abel as offering something of his "animal soul." For
me, he was partaking of the "flesh" of the "Son of man."
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto
you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his
blood, ye have no life in you.
"Man" there would be "adam" and the whole expression "ben
ha'adam."
The animal soul of the sheep/lamb/ram is peaceful. We cannot
offer something that is angry and rampaging up as a sacrifice to
God.
Let us also acknowledge that mystically everyone in the Body of
Christ forms One Body. Abel received his lamblike "animal
soul" from the Lamb of God -- and nurtured it and then offered
it up as a living sacrifice, not selfishly thinking he could
"own" it the way Anaias and Sapphira thought they could receive
from the One Body but then hold out and not be willing to commit
their all.
The Passover requires bread too. I see Cain and Abel as a
pair, and if the two of them had cooperated, they would have
been celebrating Passover with both. But Cain did not have
"bread" -- only grain. He had not received the Heavenly Bread
that comes down from Heaven -- and lacked the means therefore to
prepare his own bread by imitating the Christ Spirit.
[quote]I take one of the sins to be the belief that people could
"hide" from God's presence.[/quote]
It is a fantastic belief, is it not? Idolatry has entered the
mind at that point since the god being imagined is not the True
One God, and I can only conjecture that the person who believes
he can hide from the Presence of God is fantastically imagining
that he can outdo God.
Cain did not hold to that view the way his parents had. There
is something I love about Cain, even with his flaws. He was
disappointed that his sacrifice had not pleased God; but his
reaction was not appropriate. He was also downcast when told
he would be driven away. "My punishment is greater than I can
bear." I put a positive spin on that -- that he did not want
to leave the Presence of the LORD." Perhaps I'm naive, but I
see something positive in Cain and thus I see why the LORD gave
him protection. He wanted God's approval and to be in His
Presence, but he hadn't reached the point of becoming like a
sheep. There was something of "the beast" about him that he
had been warned about before murdering Abel. I do not see God
as driving him away. Nor can we really interpret this too
literally:
Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD,
and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
This was how he experienced things -- in his reality -- in his
mind -- not in the ultimate True Reality where God is
everywhere.
If we behave like "the beast," we have his mark on our heads to
some extent and on our hands too. We are in an area of
delusion, of denying the truth. God is "out there" allegedly
because we can't "see" Him where we are.
[quote]When the Temple veil was torn in two at the crucifixion,
Paul says that believers enter the Holy of Holies by the veil of
Jesus' flesh also rent. It's not by matter that one
enters.[/quote]I think I understand what you're saying. For me,
it's only when we ourselves become like sheep that we "enter"
the Holy of Holies. We cannot do this by ourselves. We need
help. Once any delusion or sin enters the world, the
spiritual reality can become so blurred we need help to see
things rightly. Thus the need for the Lamb to have been slain
before the foundation of the world.
[quote]There's some discrepancy as to how Rev 13:8 might be
read. Some have it as the names written from the foundation of
the world and others the Lamb slain from then. [/quote]
It took me a while to decide this. The names were there from
the foundation as we see elsewhere:
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were
not written in the book of life from the foundation of the
world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet
is.
Whose names are these? In Revelation, it's the 144,000. These
are the "male virgins" -- neither male nor female. But if you
divide each one into two, male and female, you have 288,000.
The names of these 288,000 souls are shown here where the word
"moved" adds to 288 by gematria.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and
darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God
moved upon the face of the waters.
[quote]Paul says it happened once for all not many times
(Hebrews 9:26). In any case, it's through the rending of the
flesh (matter) that one gets God consciousness I
believe.[/quote]
I don't read it that way. On the contrary, I read it the
opposite way.
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world
hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
I read that to mean Jesus did suffer often since the foundation
the world. He did what was possible, but until mankind was
ready to receive the Christ Spirit, he was limited in what he
could do.
Some things are true already in Heaven but the earth is still
waiting to have them become true here.
1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with
corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain
conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without
blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the
world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the
dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in
God.
If it was foreordained in Heaven before the foundation of the
earth, I see it as already true in Heaven. It is a question of
when it manifests on the earth.
So I read it both ways: The names were there from before the
foundation and the Lamb was also slain before the foundation.
[quote]Abel sacrificed from the purest, most innocent of his
flock, the firstlings. He was best reflective of and sending
back to God what he understood of God Himself, Life.
[/quote]If we aren't on the same page, we're close. Perhaps he
offered himself up as a living sacrifice?
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken
and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Am I going too far by comparing Abel to the Lamb of God and Cain
with the beast of the earth and his mark?
Has Jesus fully become the Lamb of God here on the earth? I'd
say not quite yet. He still retains something of the "Lion of
the tribe of Judah."
Genesis 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son,
thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as
an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from
between his feet, until Shiloh <peace> come; and unto him shall
the gathering of the people be.
When all things are overcome and peace is established, the Lion
can disappear leaving the Lamb. We see something of this also
in Revelation.
Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not:
behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath
prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals
thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the
four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it
had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the
seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Look and see the Lion, John is told; and when he looks, he sees
a Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes.
So why is Satan also described as a lion? He hasn't been tamed,
does not yet even wish to be tamed. His goal is to devour the
innocent. The Divine expression of the Lion, that of the
tribe of Judah, exists to produce change on the earth, change
for the better; and when peace comes, the Lion no longer rules
by acting like a lion.
#Post#: 14805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: paralambano Date: May 3, 2017, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Kerry -
[quote]I think Abel was one of those people who have an
intuitive knowledge or understanding.
I don't insist that others agree with me -- but I am not sure
it's safe to read the early chapters of Genesis too literally.
For example, when we read that Cain offered the "fruit of the
ground" as his sacrifice. This had been "cursed" earlier. So
I see the "thorns and thistles" somewhat in this passage also.
But what did he offer? I think it was his physical body or
something somehow associated with the "vegetable body" -- that
body that stay alive even when awareness left, in a "vegetative"
state. The Jews say not only was this produce from the cursed
earth, it wasn't the best Cain had received. He gave of the
worst.
If we see this as relating to Passover, we could say Cain
offered yeast up as part of his sacrifice rather than try to get
rid of all the yeast to leave the best grain. [/quote]
That's a good way of putting it about Cain. Cain sacrificed by
the consciousness he thought God possessed - - a lower one.
[quote]Cain did not hold to that view the way his parents had.
There is something I love about Cain, even with his flaws. He
was disappointed that his sacrifice had not pleased God; but his
reaction was not appropriate. He was also downcast when told
he would be driven away. "My punishment is greater than I can
bear." I put a positive spin on that -- that he did not want
to leave the Presence of the LORD." Perhaps I'm naive, but I
see something positive in Cain and thus I see why the LORD gave
him protection. He wanted God's approval and to be in His
Presence, but he hadn't reached the point of becoming like a
sheep. There was something of "the beast" about him that he
had been warned about before murdering Abel. I do not see God
as driving him away. Nor can we really interpret this too
literally:
Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD,
and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
[/quote]
Nod in Hebrew means "to wander". In our terms the Land of Nod
means to fall asleep where we wander in our dreams. Cain has
left the presence of the Lord by having thought he could take
Abel's life away by killing him physically/materially. He's an
example of the materialist who believes that life exists in
matter. This is what's in part a murderer from the beginning.
[quote]This was how he experienced things -- in his reality --
in his mind -- not in the ultimate True Reality where God is
everywhere.[/quote]
Ya, this is what I believe about it. He's not driven out; he
goes out. God wants him back.
[quote]I don't read it that way. On the contrary, I read it the
opposite way.
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world
hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
I read that to mean Jesus did suffer often since the foundation
the world. He did what was possible, but until mankind was
ready to receive the Christ Spirit, he was limited in what he
could do. [/quote]
We'll have to agree to disagree here. For me, the verse can't be
excised from what comes before it by contrast:
It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to
be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things
themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did
not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy
of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us
in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself
again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy
Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise
Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of
the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination
of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face
judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of
many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to
bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
The High Priest went in year-after-year to offer the sacrifice
in the Temple but Jesus Christ offered Himself once by
suffering. I don't know how this can be read any other way.
[quote]Some things are true already in Heaven but the earth is
still waiting to have them become true here. [/quote]
Yep.
[quote] 1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not
redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your
vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without
blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the
world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the
dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in
God.
If it was foreordained in Heaven before the foundation of the
earth, I see it as already true in Heaven. It is a question of
when it manifests on the earth.
So I read it both ways: The names were there from before the
foundation and the Lamb was also slain before the foundation.
[/quote]
If it truly is that he was slain from the foundation of the
earth, I take it to mean it was foreordained, not de facto
accomplished on earth or in heaven. It came in a particular
manner at a certain time.
[quote]If we aren't on the same page, we're close. Perhaps he
offered himself up as a living sacrifice?
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken
and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Am I going too far by comparing Abel to the Lamb of God and Cain
with the beast of the earth and his mark?
[/quote]
No, I don't think you're going too far. I think Abel was able to
see more clearly past the veil of his flesh to Spirit and
probably yearned for the higher consciousness and therefore the
spiritual universe and him and all in it. The thing is, he
received it by Cain's act. Abel wasn't probably enthralled by
death by what he gave of his sacrifice and understanding of God.
He was born of the physicality of his "parents" not by the
action of the Holy Spirit but might have some inkling of God as
Father and his parents as his brother and sister. This would
come later by another.
[quote]Has Jesus fully become the Lamb of God here on the earth?
I'd say not quite yet. He still retains something of the "Lion
of the tribe of Judah."
Genesis 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son,
thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as
an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from
between his feet, until Shiloh <peace> come; and unto him shall
the gathering of the people be.
When all things are overcome and peace is established, the Lion
can disappear leaving the Lamb. We see something of this also
in Revelation.
Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not:
behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath
prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals
thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the
four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it
had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the
seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Look and see the Lion, John is told; and when he looks, he sees
a Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes. [/quote]
Although I think these verses are specific to a time and place
gone, I think we might be able to say that one must be a lion
when it comes to seeing evil as illusion giving it no quarter.
As it's conquered by Christ Mind, the lion rises and becomes a
lamb in a new consciousness where there is no roaring evil or
any at all.
para . . . .
#Post#: 14810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: Justaname Date: May 3, 2017, 4:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I liked what Para said ( going right back) about Abel choosing
the lamb. I think that he had the same spirit as K.David...he
prophetically knew the 'type' that the Lamb represented that was
yet to come. Maybe Cain even saw this 'goodness' gifting that
Abel had, and it prompted him to kill and quieten the righteous
seed. Yet the righteous blood still has a loud voice when
spilled.
I believe that the Lamb was already 'slain' in God own heart
before He even created anything upon the earth. As you said
Kerry, He has the solution and foresaw the Fall. We know the
Fall didn't take Him by surprise, everything was part of The
Plan of salvation.
#Post#: 14862--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: Kerry Date: May 9, 2017, 1:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Helen link=topic=1208.msg14810#msg14810
date=1493848630]
I liked what Para said ( going right back) about Abel choosing
the lamb. I think that he had the same spirit as K.David...he
prophetically knew the 'type' that the Lamb represented that was
yet to come. Maybe Cain even saw this 'goodness' gifting that
Abel had, and it prompted him to kill and quieten the righteous
seed. Yet the righteous blood still has a loud voice when
spilled.[/quote]I hadn't considered this kind of anger; but it
is surely a big obstacle when a "evil" person is angry when he
sees "goodness" in others. Surely this has to be one of the
obstacles to be overcome before the "evil" man can become
"good'. It's not a reasonable anger, is it? If you want to
be good, why be envious? Why not change for the better and
become come yourself instead of stewing in anger?
[quote]I believe that the Lamb was already 'slain' in God own
heart before He even created anything upon the earth. As you
said Kerry, He has the solution and foresaw the Fall. We know
the Fall didn't take Him by surprise, everything was part of The
Plan of salvation. [/quote]I've mentioned jigsaw puzzles before
to explain my ideas about things; and I believe what we often
see are the pieces of the puzzle that aren't fit together yet
while God has the whole picture in His Mind.
I am not sure -- really, I'm not -- that God knows everything in
between the beginning and the end -- but the Bible says God
knows the beginning and the end, and I believe that. What we
do is not going to change the end. Everything will fit together
in the end. If we resist, we're punishing ourselves by
refusing to form harmonious relationships which we would enjoy;
but our free will actions are not going to alter the end. In
the end, every knee must bow -- and in adoration too -- and
every tongue confess.
This may be a little more complicated however. Some parts of
the puzzle might be interchangeable. If one of God's servants
rebels and does not "fall into place" as he easily could and
should, God will have another servant ready and waiting to
accomplish that task, so I do believe we can "lose our places"
in the kingdom. But nothing, absolutely nothing, can or will
alter that Divine Picture in the Mind of God. The Heavenly
Picture is real, perhaps more real than what we think of as
real. The concept of man being made in the "image and likeness
of God" is more real than the false pictures we get of people
when they're acting like devils.
God Himself does not see such false pictures of us. Why should
He? He sees us as He intended us to be in the beginning and as
we will be in the end.
Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and
canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them
that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked
devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
We may read that God said this or did that in relationship with
men; but if it involves iniquity, I believe this means God is
acting indirectly either through His Son or His angels. In my
theology, God rested on the seventh day and is still resting.
He has no need to do anything. His Son and angels will do
things and we will do things.
#Post#: 14863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: Kerry Date: May 9, 2017, 3:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1208.msg14805#msg14805
date=1493828706]
Kerry -
That's a good way of putting it about Cain. Cain sacrificed by
the consciousness he thought God possessed - - a lower one.
Nod in Hebrew means "to wander". In our terms the Land of Nod
means to fall asleep where we wander in our dreams. Cain has
left the presence of the Lord by having thought he could take
Abel's life away by killing him physically/materially. He's an
example of the materialist who believes that life exists in
matter. This is what's in part a murderer from the
beginning.[/quote]
I think we agree that Cain became deluded when he did not guard
himself as God suggested he should. Helen pointed out how he
may have been angry or jealous perceiving Abel was righteous. I
agree with that -- and if that is so, it adds to the idea of how
Cain got overwhelmed by irrationality. If we find ourselves
deficient in some way, it's irrational to get angry at someone
else who isn't. We can take steps to correct the matter.
We should accept the fact that we are God's children and thus
not unworthy. Feeling "unworthy" is believing a lie. It is a
lie about ourselves and about God.
[quote]Ya, this is what I believe about it. He's not driven out;
he goes out. God wants him back.[/quote]
What does the "image and likeness of God" do if it makes the
wrong decision and then wants to "be right" so much that it
refuses to admit making a mistake? I think this is when the
conscience burns. We can pretend to be angry about good people
and angry about God; but the conscience knows the truth and
drives us away from the good. We leave the Presence, knowing it
is better to leave so we do not defile it further. Indeed this
is true too -- since to persist in evil in the Presence of God
would prove disastrous. Is not God an all consuming Fire?
[quote]We'll have to agree to disagree here. For me, the verse
can't be excised from what comes before it by contrast:
It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to
be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things
themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did
not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy
of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us
in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself
again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy
Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise
Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of
the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination
of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face
judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of
many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to
bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
The High Priest went in year-after-year to offer the sacrifice
in the Temple but Jesus Christ offered Himself once by
suffering. I don't know how this can be read any other
way.[/quote]
Does your idea have Jesus sitting in Heaven doing nothing for
thousands of years? It is a problem for many theological
systems; and most systems seem unwilling to address it
preferring to ignore it, dismissing it with a bland and
uninstructive statement like, "That's the way it was." But I
put it to you. If the appearance of Jesus as Christ
accomplished such good, why did he wait so long before coming?
My own ideas follow. First that passage is not about Jesus the
physical man with his physical blood. Heavenly things cannot be
purified with physical human blood. I would call that physical
blood, "the blood of Jesus." I call the Spiritual Blood, the
witness in Heaven, the Blood of Christ. I cannot here and now
give all my ideas about the Book of Hebrews; but to sum it up,
it appears to have been originally written in Hebrew -- and
possibly too have had passages added and/or changed. The
expression "blood of Jesus" appears unique to this book. In the
other books, it's either the Blood of Christ or the Blood of
Jesus Christ.
[quote]If it truly is that he was slain from the foundation of
the earth, I take it to mean it was foreordained, not de facto
accomplished on earth or in heaven. It came in a particular
manner at a certain time.[/quote]
I ask why would we pray then, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be
done on earth as it is in Heaven"? If God's Will is being done
in Heaven and not yet on earth, then something is true in Heaven
but not yet true on earth.
Take this example. Who was being described as the "prince of
the world"?
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the
prince of this world be cast out.
John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is
judged.
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the
course of this world, according to the prince of the power of
the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of
disobedience:
Compare that to what David wrote:
Psalm 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the
world, and they that dwell therein.
I believe the earth was not the LORD's when David sang and wrote
that -- but his singing and writing it helped make it so. David
was speaking with a "new tongue" -- the pure tongue. There is
even something similar to the Gospel in that.
There are three heavens and the earth. What is true already in
the third Heaven of Fire may be partly true and partly not yet
true in the second Heaven of Air and even less true in the
lowest of Water; and on the earth, dismally not in line with the
Truth of Heaven. I read Genesis 1 as a revamping or repairing
of the three heavens, and Revelation as showing the end of how
God's Truth in the third Heaven filters down to the earth via
the Seals of Fire, the Trumps of Air, and the Vials of Water.
When those are accomplished fully, we see earth being addressed
completely.
I think Genesis 1 can also be read as prophecy since it has not
yet become fully true on earth. Things which were made true in
the Third Heaven of Fire have not filtered down to the earthly
level yet. One day in Heaven can be read to be a thousand years
on the earth. Thus there are six days or six thousand years
preceding the Thousand Year Reign when mankind enters the
perpetual rest.
God never fell short. When man was ready to advance on the
earth, God provided what they could use and what they were ready
for. It would have been pointless for Jesus to appear as King
Messiah before the Flood of Noah. There was scarcely room for
him when he was born. I'll go even further: I don't believe
when it was ordained that Jesus come when he did that he was to
act as Christ to the Gentiles. All that could be predicted was
that six thousand years was given in the plan, and Messiah could
come for the Gentiles at any time before the end of those six
thousand years but not later. If the world was ready,
"softened up" so to speak, he could appear earlier. The
plan could be ahead of schedule but it would not be allowed to
fall behind. That's a typical Jewish idea, and I adopt it
because Jesus said he didn't come to minister to the Gentiles.
But we see him changing his mind, don't we? We can't believe
God's plan changed or that Jesus altered course on a whim. What
we see is a Gentile woman asking for something when it wasn't
part of God's plan at the time. A dark power -- in a high place
-- had become tame and friendly. My guess is this was the same
spiritual power in its high place that had guided Jezebel.
Don't forget Jesus himself was a descendant of Jezebel . . .
through her daughter who married into the Messianic line. And
then Jesus ran into this woman from Canaan who had a problem
with her daughter, saying she was vexed with a devil. There is
irony here; and further irony in that dogs ate Jezebel and Jesus
talks about dogs. I would also say Jesus put himself through
some suffering -- dealing with the earthly elements he had
inherited from Jezebel and her daughter. I think he spotted
some inherited interior darkness (nothing that was his fault, of
course) and dealt with it. He killed that bit of darkness --
in himself first and then in the woman and her daughter.
Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against
thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth
herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to
commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she
repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit
adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of
their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches
shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts:
and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
But there are two kinds of death. When Jesus did this, I
believe he killed the inherited interior darkness and thus knew
how to do it in others (being tempted in all things, and thus
educated), and so he could bring Light to the Gentiles.
Altering course a bit now, many have noted the similarity of the
Trumps with the Vials. The explanation is simple to me. Things
first become true in the second Heaven of Air (the region Satan
was once said to be prince of); and after that is done the plan
calls for those things to become true in the lowest Heaven of
Water.
Altering course again, going back to Genesis, I see the same
three Heavens and the earth. I don't see Eden as being on the
material earth at all. It is the Garden, the Heavenly City. Am
I not right? Isn't the Tree of Life there? Doesn't Revelation
tell us the Tree of Life is in the Holy City? John describes
it as "coming down" in the present tense. It has been coming
down since Genesis. It is still coming down. Similarly Jesus
is described in the present tense as "coming." I say he is
"the coming one." We cannot restrict him to one event. He is
constantly coming.
Genesis needs to be read in the context of those three Heavens.
The context can change too. Thus at first we read that God
created the heavens and the earth. Later we read the earth
came out of the waters!
Why didn't God just create billions of humans and start the
Thousand Year Reign then and there? And returning to the
Hebrews passage, "he will appear a second time, not to bear sin,
but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him," I ask
why is he waiting and making others wait for him? The
explanation must be that he has a good reason. Mercy is
involved. More good can be accomplished by his waiting.
In line with that, I must believe Jesus wanted to come earlier,
wanted to help humanity sooner, wanted to see more good sooner,
but the earth was not yet ready for it. So I see him doing what
he could to help and that included suffering. That also
included the suffering of animals being sacrificed, something
which did not make God or Jesus happy. Yes, I realize the
animals had agreed to it when they made covenant in Noah's day
and that they will have their reward; but it was still not a
happy solution.
I believe Jesus' love made him suffer when the world was not yet
ready to receive him. For thousands of years, he suffered with
that, and I also think he gave of himself in other ways that one
could say made him suffer -- but doing nothing would have been
greater suffering and betrayal of the correct image and likeness
of God. When he was able to give his all, that meant an end to
many kinds of suffering -- his own for one, and the end of
animal sacrifices was also made possible, and the correction of
man's spiritual problems which had to be solved by changing the
patterns of things in "one" of the heavens.
[quote]No, I don't think you're going too far. I think Abel was
able to see more clearly past the veil of his flesh to Spirit
and probably yearned for the higher consciousness and therefore
the spiritual universe and him and all in it. The thing is, he
received it by Cain's act. Abel wasn't probably enthralled by
death by what he gave of his sacrifice and understanding of God.
He was born of the physicality of his "parents" not by the
action of the Holy Spirit but might have some inkling of God as
Father and his parents as his brother and sister. This would
come later by another.[/quote]I am not sure, myself, that Abel
sacrificed a physical lamb. I do not believe Abraham sacrificed
a physical "ram." I believe he and Isaac ascended to heaven.
But what of Cain? Are you certain of your view? Do you think
Eve was mistaken?
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and
bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
There may be an exception here or there; but as a rule, when the
Bible says a man knew his wife, it describes a spiritual event.
Yes, it could be physical too; but there seems to be spiritual
significance in that word "knew". I think Eve was right in
saying Cain was part of a plan of the LORD. The untamed urge,
what we may call the "evil" urge, is a gift from God. If tamed,
the way Peter tamed it under the direction of Jesus, it becomes
a wonderful thing. Adam and Eve both appeared to have some of
that untamed "evil urge." God's plan was that if they didn't
tame it, it would enter Cain so he would have the opportunity
to tame it; and if he didn't tame it, future generations would
be protected so they could try.
[quote]Although I think these verses are specific to a time and
place gone, [/quote]Surely, but that time goes at least from the
time of Jacob and Judah up to the time John had his revelation.
And has Shiloh yet come?
Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a
lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him
shall the gathering of the people be.
[quote]I think we might be able to say that one must be a lion
when it comes to seeing evil as illusion giving it no quarter.
As it's conquered by Christ Mind, the lion rises and becomes a
lamb in a new consciousness where there is no roaring evil or
any at all.[/quote]There may be a clue to it in the story about
Tamar. She quietly and calmly informed Judah of facts, not
responding to his accusation with her own angry accusation.
Judah responded most wonderfully, "She hath been more righteous
than I." How easily he admitted it when he saw his own "evil
as illusion." Talk about repenting quickly.
#Post#: 14868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: paralambano Date: May 10, 2017, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Kerry -
[quote]We should accept the fact that we are God's children and
thus not unworthy. Feeling "unworthy" is believing a lie. It
is a lie about ourselves and about God.[/quote]
I agree: I know that everything God does will endure forever;
nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does
it so that people will fear (be in awe of) him (Ecclesiastes
3:14).
We were created in the image and likeness of Infinite Spirit.
This is something that God does. Anything less is the lie that
God is a failure - - that in Infinite Love's Perfection,
Infinite Spirit failed to have His creation reflect Him - -
that actual corrupt fruit fell from a Good Tree. God is not
Henry Ford building beautiful models all destined for the scrap
heap. This is God in man's image. I say "actual" relative to
free will where we are free to choose illusions.
[quote]What does the "image and likeness of God" do if it makes
the wrong decision and then wants to "be right" so much that it
refuses to admit making a mistake? I think this is when the
conscience burns. We can pretend to be angry about good people
and angry about God; but the conscience knows the truth and
drives us away from the good. We leave the Presence, knowing it
is better to leave so we do not defile it further. Indeed this
is true too -- since to persist in evil in the Presence of God
would prove disastrous. Is not God an all consuming Fire?
[/quote]
One has to admit the mistake first before moving on but one
can't even do that without knowing the truth about it first or
else one is forever lost. Yes, perhaps one's conscience burns if
it hasn't been dulled already by repetitive errors. Even more
so, one remains at the mercy of one's "evil" since sin is
self-destructive, a destroyer. This is hell-fire: wrongful
thinking and its consequences. I don't think of it as God
actually burning anyone up but one's sins hurting oneself. God I
believe is always present whether we believe it or not.
[quote]Does your idea have Jesus sitting in Heaven doing nothing
for thousands of years? It is a problem for many theological
systems; and most systems seem unwilling to address it
preferring to ignore it, dismissing it with a bland and
uninstructive statement like, "That's the way it was." But I
put it to you. If the appearance of Jesus as Christ
accomplished such good, why did he wait so long before coming?
[/quote]
No, it's not "just the way it was" for me. Seen carnally, it's
an apparent question of time since in the dream we believe in
time. Understood from another perspective, it's something else
entirely.
The only past or future we have exists now in our present
consciousness. There are only Now moments in reality for all.
This is the way in heaven or God-consciousness. From the carnal
perspective, the Now appears fragmented and linear so we "wait"
but from the higher consciousness the Now happens immediately.
The answer appears with the question.
Second, the Christ (Truth/God/my synonyms as I understand God)
is Eternal. The prophets and others had glimpses of it by
consciousness; Moses experienced It at the bush and mount;
Elijah translated. They were able to do heavenly things as a
result in their now. These things were also good. They
understood that God was/is always calling His reflection out of
their delusion(s). The blessed mother also saw the Christ
however humbly she received Truth divine. It isn't a question of
waiting; it's a question of what Truth one possesses now. It's a
spiritual download we already possess. One NDE or dead
experiencer (sic) said that it would take years for him to
"unpack" what he learned by his trip. And his experience is so
close to my paradigm.
Scripture records it as time in consciousness now and it also
says that some were expecting the Saviour from the beginning and
those who had this hope would see Him. Those too are in our now.
Jesus entered the dream as Christ for all but some were still
choosing their delusions in time. Carnally, Jesus the man was
the highest form of man who had the Christ/Truth anointing more
than any other. Jesus the Christ was the reflection of God, Son
of God. All roads lead back to the subjective consciousness and
what one is thinking.
[quote]My own ideas follow. First that passage is not about
Jesus the physical man with his physical blood. Heavenly things
cannot be purified with physical human blood. I would call that
physical blood, "the blood of Jesus." I call the Spiritual
Blood, the witness in Heaven, the Blood of Christ. I cannot
here and now give all my ideas about the Book of Hebrews; but to
sum it up, it appears to have been originally written in Hebrew
-- and possibly too have had passages added and/or changed. The
expression "blood of Jesus" appears unique to this book. In the
other books, it's either the Blood of Christ or the Blood of
Jesus Christ. [/quote]
I agree, it's His spiritual blood. I had written that all things
seen here in the dream are inverted, matter-images or symbols of
actual, real and perfect concepts of God. You wrote it; you
surmised that all is God. I agree. It's easy to say for anyone
but it's anybody's "job" to demonstrate this fact. I would add,
it's all God and His reflection. Big C and small C consciousness
(Spirit/spirit). Cause and effect. That is all. There's nothing
( nothing really not possible) without Infinite awareness and we
in our true estate reflect Big C consciousness. God is the
Thinker; we are his pure, very good thinking. Not material but
spiritual beings through and through because God is All.
[quote]I ask why would we pray then, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will
be done on earth as it is in Heaven"? If God's Will is being
done in Heaven and not yet on earth, then something is true in
Heaven but not yet true on earth.
Take this example. Who was being described as the "prince of
the world"?
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the
prince of this world be cast out.
John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is
judged.
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the
course of this world, according to the prince of the power of
the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of
disobedience:
Compare that to what David wrote:
Psalm 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the
world, and they that dwell therein.
I believe the earth was not the LORD's when David sang and wrote
that -- but his singing and writing it helped make it so. David
was speaking with a "new tongue" -- the pure tongue. There is
even something similar to the Gospel in that.
There are three heavens and the earth. What is true already in
the third Heaven of Fire may be partly true and partly not yet
true in the second Heaven of Air and even less true in the
lowest of Water; and on the earth, dismally not in line with the
Truth of Heaven. I read Genesis 1 as a revamping or repairing
of the three heavens, and Revelation as showing the end of how
God's Truth in the third Heaven filters down to the earth via
the Seals of Fire, the Trumps of Air, and the Vials of Water.
When those are accomplished fully, we see earth being addressed
completely.
I think Genesis 1 can also be read as prophecy since it has not
yet become fully true on earth. Things which were made true in
the Third Heaven of Fire have not filtered down to the earthly
level yet. One day in Heaven can be read to be a thousand years
on the earth. Thus there are six days or six thousand years
preceding the Thousand Year Reign when mankind enters the
perpetual rest.
[/quote]
The earth not being the Lord's yet I take to mean that
consciousness in some has not yet been redeemed. It's
consciousness that is changed first then what it's projecting
improves. One has "evil", disasters, accidents, etc removed from
one's awareness since awareness is first, not the other way
around. And God said let there be light - -
Intelligence/Wisdom. Our trouble is that we believe that there's
another mind or intelligence (carnal) on its own apart from the
only One that actually exists. It is purely a hypothetical one
that all who have "fallen" believe to be true (actual).
My paradigm has only one heaven and one earth since anything
that exists exists by consciousness/thinking. There's only one
creation - - the spiritual one. The trouble is that we have
swallowed a lie - - that the creation is a material one in
declination. We have swallowed the lie that God has actually
allowed all this misery here when He hasn't. We see matter where
we ought to be seeing by the inner-Eye, the spiritual and then
instead of taking the side of the spiritual, we argue for matter
and the so-called reality of evil. This is called the veil in
scripture. I refer to it as a dream and so does David suggest:
As for me, I will be vindicated and will see your face; when I
awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness.
There's no waiting for tomorrow or death to solve the question
of being (salvation). There's only now. Jesus lamented over
Jerusalem. How he would have given her rest.
Yes, God never fell short but some who say this like "that's
just the way it was" are suggesting He does when asked to
explain ongoing evil here. They have no answer since they
believe evil is actual - - an actual power apart from God when
God has clearly said that there is none other but He (Perfect
Good/Love, etc.) and we understand Him to be Omnipresent.
[quote]Why didn't God just create billions of humans and start
the Thousand Year Reign then and there? And returning to the
Hebrews passage, "he will appear a second time, not to bear sin,
but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him," I ask
why is he waiting and making others wait for him? The
explanation must be that he has a good reason. Mercy is
involved. More good can be accomplished by his waiting.
In line with that, I must believe Jesus wanted to come earlier,
wanted to help humanity sooner, wanted to see more good sooner,
but the earth was not yet ready for it. So I see him doing what
he could to help and that included suffering. That also
included the suffering of animals being sacrificed, something
which did not make God or Jesus happy. Yes, I realize the
animals had agreed to it when they made covenant in Noah's day
and that they will have their reward; but it was still not a
happy solution.
[/quote]
Yes, mercy is involved. It's ongoing and eternal. But all roads
lead back to one's awareness and what one is thinking about
these things. I don't have any memories of what it was like back
then because "back then" and waiting and all these things in the
Book of Revelation are "images" of the past in my subjective
consciousness. Try as I might carnally, I can't go back there -
- I only have my awareness now and what I am aware of in it.
It's ME who needs to take advantage of that mercy. It's ALL
subjective consciousness(es) that need to do it since this way
of thinking is the only Intelligence that truly exists: Christ
Mind and the ascension of consciousness. Jesus didn't fly off
into space when he ascended. You know it already. He
"disappeared" from the lower consciousness. The lower
consciousness(es) couldn't perceive Him any more and in
ascending, Jesus consciousness no longer was attached to the
dream so this world vanished for Him as we see it. His lower
consciousness was sublimated in the only One that actually
exists - - Infinite Intelligence. The carnal mind, however,
projects a picture of many separate minds, some thinking evil or
erroneous thoughts but this false mind is an illusion wanting to
be "creator" and it holds us captive by our belief in it. There
is only One, infinite Intelligence and that Intelligence is
really and truly One with us.
[quote]I believe Jesus' love made him suffer when the world was
not yet ready to receive him. For thousands of years, he
suffered with that, and I also think he gave of himself in other
ways that one could say made him suffer -- but doing nothing
would have been greater suffering and betrayal of the correct
image and likeness of God. When he was able to give his all,
that meant an end to many kinds of suffering -- his own for one,
and the end of animal sacrifices was also made possible, and the
correction of man's spiritual problems which had to be solved
by changing the patterns of things in "one" of the heavens.
[/quote]
Again, Kerry, you write that Jesus suffered for thousands of
years loving people who weren't ready to have him but you're
looking at it from our view of time. Paul writes that Jesus left
his glorious estate to come here. There is no suffering in the
higher consciousness. It's we who suffer by our delusions here.
Jesus said we are to be perfect as God in heaven is Perfect.
Well, what's our understanding of God then? Jesus came to free
the captives, all those bound by satan/devil/lies. He came back
for those who were "now sons of God" - - those who had prepared
themselves for translation (never see death). His was not a
selfish mission because He took others up. And this is what
other believers are to be doing in the NOW.
[quote]Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she
conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the
LORD.
There may be an exception here or there; but as a rule, when the
Bible says a man knew his wife, it describes a spiritual event.
Yes, it could be physical too; but there seems to be spiritual
significance in that word "knew". I think Eve was right in
saying Cain was part of a plan of the LORD. The untamed urge,
what we may call the "evil" urge, is a gift from God. If tamed,
the way Peter tamed it under the direction of Jesus, it becomes
a wonderful thing. Adam and Eve both appeared to have some of
that untamed "evil urge." God's plan was that if they didn't
tame it, it would enter Cain so he would have the opportunity
to tame it; and if he didn't tame it, future generations would
be protected so they could try. [/quote]
All four were in the dream already but it's like our now. Some
dream more deeply and strangely than others. Abel less so. I
don't see the evil urge as a gift from God since God has no evil
to give. He has nothing to do with this illusion. If there was a
single intention or drop of evil in God, he would not be Perfect
and the only Infinite Good.
[quote]Surely, but that time goes at least from the time of
Jacob and Judah up to the time John had his revelation. And
has Shiloh yet come?
Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a
lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him
shall the gathering of the people be.[/quote]
Indeed He has. He took those prepared up.
[quote]There may be a clue to it in the story about Tamar. She
quietly and calmly informed Judah of facts, not responding to
his accusation with her own angry accusation. Judah responded
most wonderfully, "She hath been more righteous than I." How
easily he admitted it when he saw his own "evil as illusion."
Talk about repenting quickly. [/quote]
This sounds right to me. He saw the Truth because Truth is God.
This is how children are before they believe they have something
to hide.
(Done now with slight revision as to verbosity not meaning)
para . . . .
#Post#: 14921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: Kerry Date: May 15, 2017, 2:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I hadn't seen that you had finished, Para. I discovered
another point, related to my idea of the three heavens.
[hr]
I see the Holy City as being originally in the Third Heaven of
Fire. However it does extend downwards, always coming down,
into the two Heavens of Upper Waters and Lower Waters. These
two waters were one and should be one; and some day they will
again be one. Until our thoughts and feelings match, until our
minds and souls both love God only, there is a purpose for
dividing them and establishing a firmament between them.
So the beginning of Holy City begins in Genesis on Day One,
when God said let there be light and there was light. Of this
state, John wrote:
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither
of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten
it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
If you are in the Third Heaven, that is the state you are in.
You are receiving Spiritual Light from God via His Son, the Lamb
of God. You do not need the light of the sun, moon and stars.
Note if you will that the Lamb is defined here as the "light" of
the city. This relates, I believe, to the other statements
about the Lamb being slain from the foundation of the world and
Light appearing on Day One.
If you descend into the Upper Waters or Lower Waters, you no
longer have access to that Light since there was and is a
division between the Third and Second Heavens, the firmament
into which the sun, moon and stars were placed. Stars in the
Bible frequently signify spirits, and I think that is what they
mean in Revelation 1. Genesis describes these seven lights as
the sun, moon and stars without specifying the number of stars,
but there would be five.
Revelation 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and
out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his
countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
. . .
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right
hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the
angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which
thou sawest are the seven churches.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament
of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be
for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to
give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the
day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars
also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light
upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide
the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
The earth, after this, could receive the Divine Light but not
directly from God Himself or even from His Son. The earth could
not bear to view the Glory of the Son directly. Thus there was
a need for the this spiritual "greater light" (or the sun of the
earth) and the "lesser light" (or moon of the earth) and the
five other sources of light. These are not gods, as some might
imagine although by some definitions they could be called that.
They are connected with Jesus -- as shown by the description in
Revelation.
When we read that a statue has different qualities at different
levels, it needs to be interpreted by the various heavens.
Thus the feet of Jesus describe how Jesus as the Lamb of God
relates to the lowest level where it makes contact with the
material earth. When we read that he holds these seven stars in
his hand, it means these stars are not "at the top" in the Third
Heaven but further down.
So is there night in the City?
Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by
day: for there shall be no night there.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need
no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth
them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
The answer is not a simple yes or no. The saints in the City do
not need the spiritual guidance of the "seven stars" which are
the spiritual guides of the seven churches; but when John says
there is no night there, he does not mean there are no periods
of time, that everything is always the daytime. There is no
need of other Light since everyone in the City has all the Light
he needs; but there are still periods of time which can be
called day and night. The periods known as night are not as
bright as those known as day; but they are not complete darkness
either. Things just dim down. I say that there are nights in
Heaven since John said so.
Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings
about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not
day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty,
which was, and is, and is to come.
Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and
serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on
the throne shall dwell among them.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now
is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and
the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast
down, which accused them before our God day and night.
#Post#: 14922--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lamb of God
By: paralambano Date: May 15, 2017, 2:49 pm
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Kerry -
No rush. I'll read through your post to see how it expresses,
adds to or challenges my paradigm. At a quick glance, it looks
okay but I'll examine it more closely as I have time.
para . . . .
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