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#Post#: 956--------------------------------------------------
Loving Life
By: bənê hāʼĕlōhîm
Date: October 18, 2012, 11:55 pm
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[center]Everybody want to go to Heaven
BUT
Nobody wants to DIE[/center]
How is this a logical statement??? It seems very logical that
nobody wants to die... BUT... If we believe that we live in an
imperfect world that is full of evil, misery, and pain; And when
we die if we have accepted Christ we will go to Heaven, a
perfect place where evil,misery,and pain don't exist... Why do
we thrive to survive??? Fight for life??? How can death be a
punishment if, it is what gets us to perfection??? Death to Adam
was punishment because he was made perfect, he was not made a
mortal physical being but an immortal Soul... So when he fell
and became mortal death was a punishment...
We are born in the aftermath, we are born mortal physical
beings. We believe that threw death we can regain that state of
immortal perfection... The only way back to what we were
originally meant to be is through death...
How does one make sense out of loving life and wanting to go to
heaven???
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the
lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father,
but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that
doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
#Post#: 960--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: Laurie Date: October 19, 2012, 8:13 am
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Yikes---I wish I had more time this morning! ;D
I know I've had a change of mind on a lot of things I was told
was truth when I was younger.
Life and death certainly aren't what I once thought.
#Post#: 964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: Runner Date: October 19, 2012, 1:47 pm
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George , it is obvious that you are much younger than some of us
are!
I am over 70 now and one realizes on some days that one is
indeed dying.
I mean by the obvious lack of vitality/life!!
I don't know of any Believer who does not want to go to heaven,
or any that actually fear 'being dead'.
What I find is feared, is the DYING PROCESS itself.
This is where the faith comes in, I think.
If we all had the assurance that we could- 'pull up our feet
into the bed and give up the ghost', like Abraham ....many would
be lined up to go!! Who wishes to stay in this nasty world.
Everybody does want to go to 'heaven'. Nobody wants to risk the
dying experience itself.
The thing is, we know that right now we don't have that
"dying-grace" upon us, because right now we aren't crossing
over!
Today we have grace to live by...when the time comes we must
trust that He will give us the grace to die by.
I have watched three Christians die, I can't say that they all
died with 'smiles on their faces'. But, if they could do it, I
can do it too...the actual letting go part was easy...the hard
part was the previous weeks of lead up to the event....
"The dying by inches" part. I am not one who does well with
pain....it is pain, not death, which is feared.
#Post#: 965--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: James Date: October 19, 2012, 3:59 pm
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Who says you go to heaven when you die? ? ?
James
#Post#: 970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: Kerry Date: October 19, 2012, 6:06 pm
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[quote author=Runner link=topic=117.msg964#msg964
date=1350672427]
I don't know of any Believer who does not want to go to heaven,
or any that actually fear 'being dead'.
What I find is feared, is the DYING PROCESS itself. [/quote]I
agree with you that the dying process is something that may be
feared than being dead; but if that was the only obstacle, we
could all take drugs that made us unconscious while we faded
away, couldn't we?
#Post#: 983--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: Runner Date: October 19, 2012, 10:14 pm
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[quote]QUOTE James..Who says you go to heaven when you die? ? ?
James[/quote]
Okay Mr clever clogs ...BTW nice to see you back :)
...you are obviously referring to 'the new earth' ...which would
still be 'heavenly' would it not? ....so you can't cop out with
that...speak up!! ;D
#Post#: 986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: bənê hāʼ&#277
;lōhîm Date: October 19, 2012, 10:47 pm
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[quote author=Runner link=topic=117.msg964#msg964
date=1350672427]
Everybody does want to go to 'heaven'. Nobody wants to risk the
dying experience itself.
[/quote]
When rewording the quote originally stated like this... It makes
perfect logic!!!
[quote author=James link=topic=117.msg965#msg965
date=1350680365]
Who says you go to heaven when you die? ? ?
James
[/quote]
Well I said we "BELIEVE" it is what we are taught and what the
bible leads many to "BELIEVE".... But that is exactly why I said
"BELIEVE" because nobody that matters has told me personally...
This to me is one reason I believe some are actually scared of
death itself... "The Unknown"
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=117.msg970#msg970
date=1350687980]
I agree with you that the dying process is something that may be
feared than being dead; but if that was the only obstacle, we
could all take drugs that made us unconscious while we faded
away, couldn't we?
[/quote]
When my dad died, he was given more drugs than needed to kill
several men... Doctors prescribed, and told him to basically
take all he feels he needs to feel comfortable or to try to stop
the pain...
during the whole 3 months he would never take more than what the
bottle said to take... even though the doctors told him to
ignore the bottle and take what he feels he needs, he still
chose to just take what the bottle prescribed...
The last week he was hooked up to a drip morphine and quit
taking any pills, He was getting really bad off at this point...
The last 4 or 5 days he stopped taking any medication or even
using the morphine drip and seemed to not really even be in
pain.
The day before he died he had an episode that scared my mom, I
wasn't there at this time, but the hospice women came and
checked on him, and they adjusted the amount of morphine that he
could give himself through the drip system...(He also had a
bottle of liquid morphine he could have took and several pain
pills) but they told my mom it's not going to be long...
The following night he died, but right before he died for about
an hour it appeared he was totally conscious... and he was
moaning and trying to speak... It appeared that he was in pain,
and I'm sure he was... When we tried to adjust his bed so he
could sit up, you could tell it put him in much discomfort...
My mom called the hospice women and asked what should we do???
She said this is it, he is passing... She told us to hit the
button on the morphine drop every few minutes to help relax him
and ease the pain... So we did...
I can tell you that until his last breath no matter how much
morphine was in his system he appeared totally and completely
conscious about what was happening... towards the final minutes
he started tapping his finger on the wall in a perfect rhythm
tap...tap...tap...tap then he stopped leaned his head over and
took his final breath... In his strive to survive, in his fight
for life, even with the pain he endured, he refused to drug
himself to death...
All this to say, I think the only way to medicate yourself to
face death, would have to be to really make it a point to
overdose... you would have to take a massive amount to the point
you basically committed suicide...
Or if you could get a doctor to induce a comma but for some
reason that was never an option that I heard given to my dad or
a friend of mine who also died at 35 yrs old with cancer...
#Post#: 990--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: Kerry Date: October 19, 2012, 11:51 pm
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^ Basically they were giving him the opportunity to kill himself
by overdosing. People can overdose on morphine; and the
doctors telling him to ignore the instructions on the bottle of
pills was also an invitation to overdose.
Then the question is why some people don't choose to overdose.
It has to be something other than fear of pain during dying.
It's another matter and perhaps not relevant; but I've often
wondered why we don't use overdoses of opiates when
administering the death penalty. People complain about the
pain of people being executed. Why not drug them into a
painless coma and then into death?
#Post#: 991--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: bənê hāʼĕlōhîm
Date: October 19, 2012, 11:58 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=117.msg990#msg990
date=1350708719]
^ Basically they were giving him the opportunity to kill himself
by overdosing. People can overdose on morphine; and the
doctors telling him to ignore the instructions on the bottle of
pills was also an invitation to overdose.
[/quote]
Exactly...
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=117.msg990#msg990
date=1350708719]
Then the question is why some people don't choose to overdose.
It has to be something other than fear of pain during dying.
[/quote]
Exactly...
#Post#: 996--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loving Life
By: Rita Date: October 20, 2012, 2:00 am
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I don't love life - I remember when I was younger a friend of
mine said that ' she was so ready for heaven' she was the same
age as me - I did not understand what she meant, now I do and I
can relate to Paul's expression of truly desiring to be with
Christ, but accepting that he needs to remain here.
This is not the same as me saying ' I do not value life ' - but
, if I am honest, I am so tired of living in a fallen world.
I am weary and inside my desire is to taste true freedom, but
even I know it will not come in this lifetime
Am I missing something, should I feel this way - does it reveal
a flaw in my faith and attitude - guess I will have to ponder
that one !!
Rita
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