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#Post#: 12987--------------------------------------------------
Religious Leaders and Politics
By: Kerry Date: October 3, 2016, 7:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Remember when Jerry Falwell, Sr. said he wanted to clean up the
smut and talked about a possible boycott of businesses which
sold magazines like Playboy? From 1981, upi.com/archives
HTML http://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/01/09/The-Rev-Jerry-Falwell-says-his-Moral-Majority-has/6669347864400/:
[quote]He said the coalition will enlist some 1,000 people to
monitor television programming for some three months -- possibly
beginning in March -- to formulate a list of objectionable shows
that will be targeted for extinction.
Falwell also lashed out at Hugh Hefner, publisher of the
Chicago-based Playboy Magazine, as one who is 'making a living
from smut and running a smut pool.'
He said Moral Majority members may promote a nationwide boycott
of corporations which advertise in Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler
and 'other smut papers' to rid magazine racks of such
publications.[/quote]
Now his son hobnobs with Donald Trump with a copy of Playboy in
the background.
HTML http://media.al.com/news_impact/photo/trump-falwell-playboyjpg-972da5730a94b2e2.jpg
We've heard the talk about Donald's wife, but have you heard
about Donald's appearance in a softcore Playboy movie? Thank
goodness, Donald kept his clothes on even if the girls didn't.
Ha, ha, and he told us to check out the sex tape Miss Universe
Alicia Machado made! From the Hill:
[quote]Trump's role in the start of the video consists of him,
over a caption that reads "entrepreneur," saying “Beauty is
beauty, and let’s see what happens with New York.”
He then pops a bottle of champagne and pours it over a Playboy
bunny logo on a limo with women surrounding him.
BuzzFeed found the footage on an online New York-based adult
video store.
Trump on Friday blasted the former Miss Universe Alicia Machado
for her "sex tape," apparently a reference to her appearance on
a reality TV show in the 1990s.
Trump cited the "sex tape" as evidence of the model's
"disgusting" personality after Machado publicly criticized the
GOP nominee for his comments regarding her weight. [/quote]
What did Falwell, Jr. have to say of it when asked? He compared
himself to Jesus! From the Blaze
HTML http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/06/22/jerry-falwell-jr-responds-to-controversy-surrounding-playboy-cover-appearing-in-photo-of-him-and-trump/<br
/>(don't expect me to quote from this site too often):
[quote]But several hours later, Falwell, who participated
Tuesday in a forum between Trump and hundreds of other
evangelical leaders, finally took to Twitter to respond to his
detractors, saying he was “honored” because the “same hypocrites
who accused Jesus of being a friend of publicans and sinners”
were “targeting” him over the Playboy cover.
That comment alone set of a torrent of responses, many of which
were digs at the high-profile Trump endorser. Much of the social
media back-and-forth late Tuesday night was between Falwell and
conservative writer Ben Howe, who is obstinately opposed to
Trump.
The two men exchanged barbs about Falwell’s father, Jerry
Falwell, Sr., who famously lead the Moral Majority in the 1970s.
It is important to note that, ironically, the elder Falwell was
close personal friends with Hustler publisher Larry Flynt, who
the televangelist iconically took to court over a satirical
article published in the pornographic magazine that outlined a
fake incestuous relationship between him and his mother.[/quote]
How times have changed!
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4ziZVeuj9w
It amazed me how he brags (shortly after the 2:30 mark) how
Liberty University has become "the largest and most prosperous
Christian university in the world." What he doesn't say is
that the American taxpayer is footing much of the bill.
HTML https://thinkprogress.org/conservative-americas-favorite-christian-university-is-thriving-because-of-progressive-policies-a6ffd1670b7a#.y9w6ct1yt
HTML http://www.politicususa.com/2015/07/18/american-taxpayers-fund-largest-christian-college-america-world.html
My guess is Falwell thinks Trump is the best bet to keep all the
government money flowing into Liberty University.
Do you know what else Falwell said? Every terrorist in the
world will crawl under a rock" if Trump is elected. Yes, he
said that. (Video at RightWingWatch
HTML http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/falwell-every-terrorist-world-will-crawl-under-rock-when-trump-becomes-president.)<br
/>
I believe the exact opposite. I think ISIS wants Trump to be
elected. They think his actions would be good PR for them.
From Time
HTML http://time.com/4480945/isis-donald-trump/:
[quote]This year, ISIS isn’t simply a passive observer of
American politics. Since the group’s rapid rise in 2014, ISIS
has established a far-reaching, sophisticated propaganda
machine. Its members rely on social media to shape public
opinion, recruit new members and mobilize followers to carry out
attacks. Now, some of them are using those channels to advocate
for Trump. In August, one ISIS spokesman wrote: “I ask Allah to
deliver America to Trump.” Another supporter declared: “The
‘facilitation’ of Trump’s arrival in the White House must be a
priority for jihadists at any cost!!!” ISIS is working to drum
up support for the candidate it has called “the perfect enemy.”
That may come as a surprise to some. After all, Trump has spent
this election season making a series of combative and bellicose
comments on terrorism—from his pledge to kill the families of
terrorists, his plans bring back torture of suspected terrorists
and his call to ban all Muslims from entering the United States.
But the truth is, Trump’s statements and extreme policies aren’t
just contrary to our values—they play right into the hands of
ISIS.
Trump’s anti-Muslim proposals are likely to inspire and
radicalize more violent jihadists in the U.S. and Europe.
Specifically, his calls for a ban on Muslims visiting our
country and for blanket spying on mosques reinforce ISIS’s view
that the U.S. is hostile to all Muslims. As a former ISIS
fighter told Revkin and Mhidi: “When Trump says hateful things
about Muslims, it proves that jihadists are right to fight
against the West, because the West is against Islam.” As a
result, his ideas fuel the group’s efforts to radicalize and
mobilize its followers to take action. In fact, Trump himself
has been featured in ISIS propaganda videos following the
Brussels attack and the Orlando massacre.
Trump’s statements also serve to isolate and alienate the same
Muslim Americans who must be our partners in this fight. They’re
often on the front lines against ISIS in its effort to
radicalize those who are disaffected or otherwise susceptible to
its hateful message. And they are in the best position to
recognize the signs of radicalization and to intervene before
it’s too late. Marginalizing these Americans sows distrust of
the government and law enforcement, and makes it more difficult
to identify and disrupt attacks. Terrorist groups around the
world are eager to capitalize on this opportunity: the al-Qaeda
group in East Africa released a video quoting Trump to convince
American Muslims to join the group because they are not welcome
in their own country.[/quote]
#Post#: 12989--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: Kerry Date: October 3, 2016, 9:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's what the Pope had to say about the American election as
reported by Huffington Post
HTML http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pope-francis-election-advice_us_57f1eb0de4b0c2407cde7f5a?:
[quote]Vote your conscience.
Pope Francis weighed in on the U.S. election on Sunday, but he
didn’t endorse or criticize either candidate.
“I never say a word about electoral campaigns,” the pope told
reporters aboard his plane, according to the National Catholic
Reporter. “The people are sovereign. I will only say: Study the
proposals well, pray and choose in conscience.”
Although Pope Francis didn’t mention Donald Trump or Hillary
Clinton by name, he did say there were “difficulties” with each,
Reuters reported. He also warned of the dangers of an electorate
becoming too politicized:
[quote]“When in any country there are two, three or four
candidates who don’t satisfy everyone, it means that perhaps the
political life of that country has become too politicized and
that it does not have much political culture.
People say ‘I’m from this party’ or ‘I’m from that party,’ but
effectively, they don’t have clear thoughts about the basics,
about proposals.”[/quote][/quote]
[hr]
Wow, that's in sharp contrast to Trump's new "Catholic liason"
for Catholic affairs, Joseph Cella. From churchmilitant.com
HTML http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/trump-appoints-33-catholic-advisors:
[quote]DETROIT (ChurchMilitant.com) - Catholic influence is
increasing on Donald Trump's presidential campaign as he
announced the appointment of 33 respected conservative Catholic
leaders to form a Catholic advisory council.
Members of the council were named September 21 and include such
heavyweights as former Pennsylvania's Republican senator Rick
Santorum and the president of the pro-life Susan B. Anthony
List, Marjorie Dannenfelser, whom Trump recently picked to head
his campaign's Pro-Life Coalition.
Another Catholic council appointee is Joseph Cella, founder of
the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast, who didn't support Trump
in the primaries, but who is now backing his bid for the Oval
Office.
[quote]If you look at the totality of Mr. Trump's positions,
such as preserving and protecting religious liberty, the
sanctity of human life, providing an uplifting and empowering
economic agenda and opening wide the opportunity for school
choice, particularly to Hispanics and African Americans in urban
areas, the difference couldn't be more stark on these core
issues between Mr. Trump and Hillary Clinton.[/quote]
Another council member is Matt Schlapp, a Catholic who chairs
the American Conservative Union. Schlapp observed, "What I am
seeing in my community with my friends, in my church, is that
more and more practicing Catholics, conservatives, Republicans,
independents are waking up to the fact that he's the right
choice to make for president."
Irish Catholic Steve Bannon — on hiatus from running
Breitbart.com — is overseeing Trump's entire campaign, while the
politically savvy Kellyanne Conway, a longtime Catholic from New
Jersey, is manager of the operation.
Trump was fighting an uphill battle trying to obtain the
Catholic vote, which makes up roughly one-fourth of the
electorate. A Pew Research poll in July showed 57 percent of
churchgoing Catholics would vote for Clinton while only 38
percent were leaning towards Trump.[/quote]
What is so very odd about that is how vehemently opposed to
Trump Cella was during the primaries when he signed an
anti-Trump statement. From the National Review
HTML http://:
[quote]In recent decades, the Republican party has been a
vehicle — imperfect, like all human institutions, but
serviceable — for promoting causes at the center of Catholic
social concern in the United States: (1) providing legal
protection for unborn children, the physically disabled and
cognitively handicapped, the frail elderly, and other victims of
what Saint John Paul II branded “the culture of death”; (2)
defending religious freedom in the face of unprecedented
assaults by officials at every level of government who have made
themselves the enemies of conscience; (3) rebuilding our
marriage culture, based on a sound understanding of marriage as
the conjugal union of husband and wife; and (4) re-establishing
constitutional and limited government, according to the core
Catholic social-ethical principle of subsidiarity. There have
been frustrations along the way, to be sure; no political party
perfectly embodies Catholic social doctrine. But there have also
been successes, and at the beginning of the current presidential
electoral cycle, it seemed possible that further progress in
defending and advancing these noble causes was possible through
the instrument of the Republican party. That possibility is now
in grave danger. And so are those causes. Donald Trump is
manifestly unfit to be president of the United States. His
campaign has already driven our politics down to new levels of
vulgarity. His appeals to racial and ethnic fears and prejudice
are offensive to any genuinely Catholic sensibility. He promised
to order U.S. military personnel to torture terrorist suspects
and to kill terrorists’ families — actions condemned by the
Church and policies that would bring shame upon our country. And
there is nothing in his campaign or his previous record that
gives us grounds for confidence that he genuinely shares our
commitments to the right to life, to religious freedom and the
rights of conscience, to rebuilding the marriage culture, or to
subsidiarity and the principle of limited constitutional
government.
We understand that many good people, including Catholics, have
been attracted to the Trump campaign because the candidate
speaks to issues of legitimate and genuine concern: wage
stagnation, grossly incompetent governance, profligate
governmental spending, the breakdown of immigration law, inept
foreign policy, stifling “political correctness” — for starters.
There are indeed many reasons to be concerned about the future
of our country, and to be angry at political leaders and other
elites. We urge our fellow Catholics and all our fellow citizens
to consider, however, that there are candidates for the
Republican nomination who are far more likely than Mr. Trump to
address these concerns, and who do not exhibit his vulgarity,
oafishness, shocking ignorance, and — we do not hesitate to use
the word — demagoguery.
Mr. Trump’s record and his campaign show us no promise of
greatness; they promise only the further degradation of our
politics and our culture. We urge our fellow Catholics and all
our fellow citizens to reject his candidacy for the Republican
presidential nomination by supporting a genuinely reformist
candidate. [/quote]
So now Cella is supporting and advising someone he said this
about less than a year ago?
[hr]Also named to Trump's panel of Catholics advisors was
Marjorie Dannenfelser who signed an even more scathing letter
earlier in the year. From sba-list.org
HTML https://www.sba-list.org/home/pro-life-women-sound-the-alarmdonald-trump-is-unacceptable:
[quote]Dear Iowans,
As pro-life women leaders from Iowa and across the nation, we
urge Republican caucus-goers and voters to support anyone but
Donald Trump. On the issue of defending unborn children and
protecting women from the violence of abortion, Mr. Trump cannot
be trusted and there is, thankfully, an abundance of alternative
candidates with proven records of pro-life leadership whom
pro-life voters can support. We have come to this conclusion
after having listened patiently to numerous debates and news
reports, but most importantly to Donald Trump’s own words.
The next president will be responsible for as many as four
nominations to the Supreme Court. Mr. Trump has given us only
one indication about the type of judges he would appoint, and it
does not bode well for those who would like to see the court
overturn Roe v. Wade. Mr. Trump has said his sister, Judge
Maryanne Trump Barry, who struck down the Partial Birth Abortion
Ban in New Jersey, would be a “phenomenal” choice for the court.
Earlier this month, Mr. Trump also said he thought pro-choice
Senator Scott Brown would make a “very good” Vice President. If
one truly believes, as we do, that abortion is the taking of an
innocent human life and is committed to the pro-life priorities
of ending abortion after five months, and defunding the nation’s
largest abortion business, Planned Parenthood, it would be a
disaster to have a vice president who disagrees.
Moreover, as women, we are disgusted by Mr. Trump’s treatment of
individuals, women, in particular. He has impugned the dignity
of women, most notably Megyn Kelly, he mocked and bullied Carly
Fiorina, and has through the years made disparaging public
comments to and about many women. Further, Mr. Trump has
profited from the exploitation of women in his Atlantic City
casino hotel which boasted of the first strip club casino in the
country.
America will only be a great nation when we have leaders of
strong character who will defend both unborn children and the
dignity of women. We cannot trust Donald Trump to do either.
Therefore we urge our fellow citizens to support an alternative
candidate.[/quote]
That letter is right about Trump being behind the first strip
club casino. July 4, 2013 -- from nj.com
HTML http://www.nj.com/atlantic/index.ssf/2013/07/strip_club_coming_to_atlantic_city_casino_reports_say.html:
[quote]The country’s first strip-club-in-a-casino will open in
August.
Scores, the New York-based franchise, will open its $25 million
entertainment complex in the Trump Taj Mahal in August,
according to a company spokeswoman.
The site was about two years in the making and will be 36,000
square feet of adult entertainment, the company said in a
release.
Scores will be located on the second floor of the Trump casino,
in a space that was formerly occupied by three restaurants.
There will be eight distinct areas – including a main showcase
area, a sports bar, a nightclub, a lounge, a cabaret and a male
revue.
"It is certain to become a distinct competitive advantage in the
Atlantic City marketplace," said Bob Gans, a managing partner of
Scores Atlantic City.
The state Division of Gaming Enforcement ruled way back in
December 2011 to allow the club inside the Taj Mahal Casino
Resort. At that time, officials said the it would be a $3
million project.
At the time the project was approved, the division said dancers
could strip down only to a G-string and pasties. Lap dances
would be prohibited, as would any simulation of sexual activity.
However, the state Division of Gaming Enforcement has since
agreed to allow a form of "modified" lap dancing not involving
touching in the new club, said Cathleen Kiernan, a spokeswoman
for Scores Atlantic City.[/quote]
Did the strippers and lap dancers save the Taj Mahal? Nope.
It's due to close soon -- October 10. Trump no longer owns the
majority stake; and Carl Icahn has lost a lot of money and is
calling it quits. From Fortune
HTML http://:
HTML http://fortune.com/2016/08/04/atlantic-city-trump-taj-mahal-closing/
[quote]Icahn told The Associated Press this week that he’s lost
almost $100 million on the Taj Mahal in the 18 months since a
federal judge approved a bankruptcy restructuring plan that saw
him take control of the casino’s prior owner, Trump
Entertainment Resort, which had filed for bankruptcy in 2014. At
the time, the Taj Mahal was also threatening to close its doors
unless it received concessions from the Unite Here union
members, who eventually reached a deal to keep the casino open
and the pave the way for Icahn’s takeover.
Icahn previously bought Tropicana Entertainment, which owns the
Tropicana Atlantic City hotel and casino, out of bankruptcy in
2010.
Donald Trump once touted the Atlantic City behemoth, which cost
$1 billion to build in 1990, as the “eighth wonder of the
world.” But, the man who is now the GOP nominee for president
has not been involved in managing the casino that bears his name
since its most recent bankruptcy. As Fortune has written before,
the Taj Mahal and Trump’s other former casino and hotel holdings
also went through multiple previous bankruptcy proceedings that
saw the billionaire’s ownership of Trump Entertainment Resorts
dwindle to a 10% stake.[/quote]
So why would Marjorie Dannenfelser change her mind about Trump?
She was right in pointing out he was behind opening the first
strip club casino, a new low in "entertainment." It's bad
enough to make money encouraging gambling and encouraging people
to drink booze so they gamble more. Did Trump think using sexy
women would be a sort of magic cure-all for the troubled casinos
in Atlantic City?
I can only think Dannenfelser thinks Trump is serious when he
said he switched his position from being "very pro-choice" to
hers. She seems to be convinced, even penning an article about
it at Townhall
HTML http://townhall.com/columnists/marjoriedannenfelser/2016/05/09/the-prolife-case-for-trump-n2160264.<br
/>
This reminds me of Reagan's promises about abortion when he ran.
So far as I can determine, he never seriously tried to do
anything about it except talk.
What almost no one talks about is that the abortion rate has
declined during Obama's term. The number of abortions could be
lowered even further without passing new laws about it but by
addressing poverty and other social factors.
I don't understand some Catholics' position on abortion. Italy
is a good example. The abortion rate declined when it was
legalized -- at least among Italians. Of course, birth control
was also available. The rate of abortions among foreign
workers however who face uncertain futures is a lot higher. So
why hold demonstrations demanding the banning of abortion?
Why not demand better conditions for the foreign workers in
Italy?
#Post#: 12993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: HOLLAND Date: October 3, 2016, 6:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I wonder, Kerry, if religious leaders really matter as much as
before. There is a lot of libertarianism in religion in
America. Religious leaders are still leading, but one can
wonder about the followers.
It is ialso nteresting, Kerry, as a sidelight issue, how many
religious leaders and people are addicted to internet porn.
Given that this is a church problem, it really has an effect on
how the church can make political struggle on issues regarding
sexuality and pornography in the media.
Curiously, Playboy magazine is eliminating the soft port
pictures and focusing on articles. I understand that Playboy
made the determination that there is so much soft and free porn
on the internet that it is no longer profitable to promote and
display soft porn in their magazine.
I suppose one could advocate the censorship and governmental
control of the internet, but I wonder if such a cause could be
successful.
#Post#: 12996--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: Kerry Date: October 3, 2016, 9:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1126.msg12993#msg12993
date=1475539021]
I wonder, Kerry, if religious leaders really matter as much as
before. There is a lot of libertarianism in religion in
America. Religious leaders are still leading, but one can
wonder about the followers.[/quote]
My opinion is that religious leaders have eroded their moral
authority. I think history shows that. The state acts in a
secular way, according to Paul, its role is to stop evil.
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to
the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that
which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
I believe the government is there to protect people from the
evil deeds of others. The role of religion is to encourage
good while respecting free will of everyone. Thus government
depends on its ability to use force and to frighten people while
religion should depend on its appeal to love -- while realizing
you can't force anyone to love or be good.
When governments go bad, it means they are not existing to
protect their citizens. They often go in the direction of
fascism or authoritarianism; and when people see the government
is not there to protect them, they are apt to want to rebel or
disobey. In this kind of situation, bad secular leaders often
try to hang onto their power by getting religious leaders to
support them. We see this happening in several countries now.
The religious leader who falls into this, believing his own
influence will be enhanced, has been seduced by Our Lady of
Babylon, that's what I think. He will eventually lose
influence instead. They often retain some followers but not of
the peaceful type. The good shepherd has sheep who follow him
out of love that goes both ways. False shepherds collaborate
with the government a la Revelation 18 -- and their message is
not about love but about fear.
What I find interesting is that as their influence wanes, they
become increasingly irrational; and the more irrational they
become, they lose even more followers. Let's take the
radical fake-Muslims of ISIS for an example. There were
fascinating photos of people after they got routed. Men were
shaving each other's beards on the streets, and women were
smoking cigarettes and taking off their veils. You will never
convince those people that ISIS is worth following. Their crazy
tactics proved to people they were fake, false Muslims.
It may not be that extreme in the US; but if I have time to keep
finding things about it, I think we will see that some of our
religious leaders seem to be losing their minds. For example,
here Jim Bakker is saying the Devil wants to kill Donald
Trump.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r57ePfxdtx0
He appears desperate to me, trying to hang onto some of
influence and trying to make a few bucks at the same time -- I
see he's still trying to sell his food for emergencies.
[quote]It is ialso nteresting, Kerry, as a sidelight issue, how
many religious leaders and people are addicted to internet ****.
Given that this is a church problem, it really has an effect on
how the church can make political struggle on issues regarding
sexuality and pornography in the media.[/quote]It seems to me
the more people rail against something and condemn others for
something, the more likely they are to be guilty of it
themselves. It's popular in some circles to rail against gays;
and people often cite Romans 1 to bolster their views. But
they fail to read on.
Romans 2:2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou
art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou
condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth
against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such
things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment
of God?
Judging others is a dangerous matter. If we think this or that
is such a big problem that Heaven can't handle it, we have
created an idol in our minds where a situation is bigger than
God. The people who who do this often have the base motive of
trying to wiggle out of their own feelings of self-condemnation.
They struggle with something which seems to be bigger than God.
That's why they see it as so big and so powerful. They
haven't mastered it yet in themselves. Thus to look at
someone else and to judge him as "worthless" means we see him as
someone God isn't big enough to help.
I'll go a step further. If someone isn't tempted by a
particular thing but says to himself, "It's safe for me to judge
others on this," he will often begin to be tempted by it. The
more he thinks and talks about it, the more he will find himself
tempted. For all I know, Bishop Eddie Long could have been
almost completely heterosexual when he started out; but the more
he condemned others for it, the more he was tempted himself.
[quote]Curiously, Playboy magazine is eliminating the soft port
pictures and focusing on articles. I understand that Playboy
made the determination that there is so much soft and free ****
on the internet that it is no longer profitable to promote and
display soft **** in their magazine.[/quote]And Penthouse gave
up their print editions, going to online only.
I always found the whole Playboy thing dull. Allegedly it was
to tell men how to experience the finest things in life. Good
grief! If you like a particular wine or brandy, drink it. Do
you really need Hugh Hefner's approval? I happen to like some
really cheap red wines. I haven't bought any lately; but I
don't care what Playboy says about wines. Nor would I go to
Trump's new DC hotel to buy a spoonful of wine for $140. Why
would I do that? Just so I could say I had tasted such-and-such
a wine? I also found the photos of Trump Plaza dull --
pretentious, gaudy, and silly. It also brings the word
"deliciously" to mind:
Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived
deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith
in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no
sorrow.
Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed
fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her,
and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her
burning,
Peddling the idea that happiness depends on such things is
peddling false hope to me.
Proverbs 15:17 Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a
stalled ox and hatred therewith.
Of course, having fine things isn't a sin; but I think it's
misguided if we fall into the trap of thinking acquiring things
or power or living deliciously will make us happy. I would not
want to trade places with either Donald Trump or Hillary
Clinton. I feel sorry for them more than condemn them. I'm
more likely to condemn avaricious religious leaders who, in my
opinion, should know better.
[quote]I suppose one could advocate the censorship and
governmental control of the internet, but I wonder if such a
cause could be successful.[/quote]Perhaps we should start a
thread on this. It is possible to an extent that might amaze
you. Governments however often find it useful to let almost
anything appear on the internet -- so they can spy on people and
find people to prosecute. It used to be that the FBI had the
largest collection of child pornography in the world. They'd
run ads so people would buy the stuff; and once it got
delivered, they'd move in to arrest them. Today, the FBI is
still at it, but now on the internet.
HTML http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/31/the-fbi-distributes-child-pornography-to
HTML https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/23/fbi-improved-dark-web-child-porn-site-lawyer/
And let's not forget that the American government invented the
Tor browser.
Ever wonder why sites don't clamp down completely on things like
ISIS? I think governments use those sites to find and track
people. A lot of people seem to get caught by posting stuff on
the internet. If sites closed them down, it might make it
harder for the government to find them.
#Post#: 13000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: Kerry Date: October 4, 2016, 5:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So Ted Cruz showed up on Glenn Beck's radio show trying to
explain his decision to endorse Trump; and Beck was most
unhappy.
But first a little background. Remember how Ted's father Rafael
said God had called Ted to run for President?
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v9JYj4jaA0
Six months in prayer? And then he lost to Trump? Oh well.
Rafael also once said we should end the separation of church and
state, but never mind that for now. Glenn Beck told Rafael
Cruz -- from Right Wing Watch
HTML http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ted-cruz-campaigned-gods-chosen-candidate-conceding-defeat:
[quote]Beck emerged as one of Cruz's most prominent surrogates
and turned his daily radio program into an infomercial for
Cruz’s campaign.
He told his fellow Cruz supporters that they were sure to be
victorious because "we have the Almighty God on our side." He
also insisted that God was using his audience to elect Cruz with
because the senator was "truly raised up for this purpose at
this time."
"Everybody was born for a reason," Beck told Rafael Cruz in an
interview at his radio studio, which he had turned into a
replica of the Oval Office. "As I learned your story and saw the
fruit of that story, now in your son, I am more and more
convinced in the hand of divine providence."[/quote]
And here Beck is telling us God raised up Ted Cruz and we are to
choose between good and evil! Of course, Beck is also the guy
who said God killed Justice Scalia to make us all vote.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRPMaaNfjy0
Beck isn't a minister; but I think his Mormon background may be
influencing his views. But there were ministers who chimed in.
Kenneth Copeland had a very strong feeling that Cruz would be
our next President.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0_KKg6Wh3Q
Now never mind that Beck was off track himself -- predicting
more or less than Cruz was intended by God to be our next
President. Here's the first bit. Beck is relatively calm
during it. I had to laugh when Beck reminded Cruz he had
called Trump a sociopathic liar and asked him if that had
changed. Some of this video is a bit boring.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNjgAUzUwCI
The fireworks started after the commercial break when Beck has a
meltdown.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BshqMopwv2E
I wonder if Beck is going to stop thinking he's a prophet?
#Post#: 13004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: HOLLAND Date: October 4, 2016, 8:31 pm
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^^^^Really interesting material, Kerry. You've spot on with
your observations.
It will be interesting to see how religious leaders take up with
the Vice-Presidential candidates. I suppose there has been some
activity here as well. I suppose that it will be that religious
leaders have diminished influence given the nonsense attached to
the Presidential candidates.
#Post#: 13008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: Kerry Date: October 7, 2016, 5:46 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1126.msg13004#msg13004
date=1475631085]
^^^^Really interesting material, Kerry. You've spot on with
your observations.
It will be interesting to see how religious leaders take up with
the Vice-Presidential candidates.[/quote]I didn't know much
about Pence before this election. When I had a TV and watched
C-SPAN, I had a favorable view of him, seeing him on the floor
of the House arguing to end wasteful spending. I thought that
was his major thing.
I did not know he identified himself as a "born-again,
evangelical Catholic" -- I can't say I even understand what that
means. He was born into a Catholic family, but later began
attending an evangelical church.
My impression of him now is not good. I think his signing the
so called Religious Freedom Restoration Act was an attempt to
garner support for his next election as Governor. It was an
absurd law. And when corporations said they'd stop doing
business in Indiana, the bill got rewritten. His commitment to
this idea of religious freedom got flushed down the toilet when
money was at stake. So the religious right lost out again.
His refusal to grant a pardon to Keith Cooper known now to have
been wrongfully convicted is the last straw for me. The fact
that it's a black man also makes me wonder if he's secretly a
bigot. His excuse? Out of respect for the judicial process.
Give me a break. Why are Governors given the power to pardon
then? What a cold heart Pence must have.
Kaine is Catholic; and while I disagree with his views on
abortion, at least he can separate his religious and his
political views. I was also favorably impressed when he quoted
Matthew 6:45: "There is a great line from the gospel: From the
fullness of the heart the mouth speaks . When Donald Trump says
women should be punished, or Mexicans are rapists and criminals,
or John McCain is not a hero, he is showing you who he is.”
#Post#: 13011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: HOLLAND Date: October 7, 2016, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
^^^I would agree, Kerry, concerning Pence for much the same
reasons that you have drawn.
I tend to agree with Kaine in the matter of abortion. I accept
in principle, as normative, the Jewish law spoken of in the
Mishnah, based on Exodus 21:22-25, that until a baby's head
emerges from the birth canal, it's life is not subject to the
law of talion. Until that happens, the life and rights of a
woman cannot be diminished in any way in respect to her yet,
undelivered, offspring. The Jewish law certainly does not
encourage abortion, but considered it, given circumstances, a
necessary evil. Such is my belief in the matter of abortion.
It is interesting that Kaine is going counter to the Catholic
Church on this matter; and, some Catholics are going to be
hostile towards him.
I am struck that the Vice-Presidential debate will be lost in
the hurricane storm hitting the East coast. So how it goes.
#Post#: 13015--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: Kerry Date: October 7, 2016, 6:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There is evidence too that the early Christian church thought
abortion a sin, but they did not equate it to murder from the
moment of conception.
My opinion is that the religious extremists lost ground by being
so extreme and by trying to use religious arguments to make
laws. I argue against abortion by saying no one knows
precisely when a fetus become a person. We should not make
laws that reward acting from ignorance. It is reckless to fire
a gun into a house. Perhaps there isn't a person in it; but
perhaps there is. Similarly running red lights is against the
law, not because you are killing a person every time you run a
light, but because you might.
It is also a dangerous precedent for the government, any
government, to makes rules saying this or that form of human
cells is not a person. Indeed people in the past used to
argue that black people and the Australian aborigine were not
really people.
We could argue that mentally defective people are not persons.
We could say handicapped people who can't take care of
themselves are not persons -- and pro-abortion people make a
similar argument about fetuses, saying it's not a person as long
as it can't live on its own but depends on the mother. While
it may be convenient for some people to ignore the rights of
other people, we are on a slippery slope when we start mounting
arguments based on ignorance. We could also argue that old
people who can't take care of themselves are not persons. The
logic that a fetus being dependent on the mother gives the right
to the mother to terminate it is seriously flawed. . . if the
fetus is a person.
But the people on the right used extreme arguments and tried to
use religion. That is a failing proposition.
I'm not sure you're right about Catholics being hostile to Kaine
about this. Over a quarter of abortions in the US are for
Catholics.
HTML http://reverbpress.com/religion/abortion-rates-highest-among-christians-according-stunning-survey-results/
Church hierarchy may rail about it and Catholic activists on
television may; but they appear to be out of step with many
Catholics over birth control and abortion. We all know that
lots of Catholics use birth control; and I think it's a good
thing since their abortion rate would probably be even higher if
they didn't.
#Post#: 13019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Leaders and Politics
By: paralambano Date: October 8, 2016, 12:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power (1
Corinthians 4:20).
I suppose some could not even talk if it were possible for them.
para . . . .
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