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#Post#: 12608--------------------------------------------------
Transcendence
By: coldwar Date: July 22, 2016, 11:43 am
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This is a spin-off from the Moses / Jesus discussion.
I know with no doubt that I must be almost completely a
rationalist, especially if "transcendence" means that what we
are conscious of is like one big computer simulation, and to
become "awake", one must seek enlightenment to escape it. Those
like David Icke would have us believe that "reptilians" have us
living in a holographic existence, where we are not aware of
what "they" are doing. Icke sounds compelling, and has a great
way with words, and even sounds rational when he's discussing
real world issues like "Brexit" but, in spite of his huge
following, I can only conclude he's spouting utter nonsense.
"Holographic", like "photographic" is about our sense of sight.
Yet for the younger generation who are experienced with "the
Matrix" movies and games, they might be the ones who believe
that this is the reality we live in, in spite of the obvious
that sound, taste, touch and smell are all combined in our
sensation of things. When I go to a movie theatre, I'm aware of
the wonderful smell of buttered popcorn that has nothing to do
with the movie being projected on the screen.
I've recently met a man who believes this way, a "Regression
Therapist" among other things, - his age is probably early 60's,
so he's not of the Matrix generation, yet, he does believe in
our perceptions as being "nothing but vibrations", and we are
indeed perceiving things in a "holographic" way. Now, from a
purely Physical science standpoint, I do agree that all matter
is empty space, with vibrations of different arrangements of
extremely small particles. I also agree that molecules can even
be changed by simply changing the spins and orbits of the
particles. But I see this same man dealing with the reality
around him, cursing under his breath as he tries to assemble a
new piece of equipment in his Holistic Health clinic. He's
encountering the real facts of our existence that plastic is
plastic, metal is metal, and blood trickles from our bodies when
we skin our knuckles while tightening bolts.
So what happens when we claim to experience transcendence,
enlightenment or awakening? For me, this is a change of how I
perceive the unknowable, or more importantly grow to follow
changes in how I perceive the unknowable. Those who cannot grow
in their perception of the unknowable are "stuck", but I would
not necessarily say they are asleep.
Some have said that what I would call "the known" is not real,
but the unknowable is what is real. This is nothing new - a bit
of research reveals this line of thought has been around for
thousands of years, and generally, there is a "religion" tied to
it not far away. As a lover of God, and His Holy Mysteries, I am
convinced that both knowable and unknowable "exist", but it's no
more complicated than this - the "knowable" is known and the
"unknowable", in spite of being believed in, is still unknown,
yet we must in some way reach for it, if we are human.
Observe the lovable creatures we know as the house cat. I live
with six of them, and it's so funny to watch how much they're
all different from each other. Cats are absolute masters of
perception. They are all capable of jumping from the floor to
the top of a bookcase without disturbing the objects on top of
the shelf - that's a feature of their Feline species. Yet, only
one of them will watch for hours the clothes going around in our
glass-front washing machine as if it were a TV show. Another one
loves watching TV itself, especially if the show has horses in
it. Still another loves laying on top of his cat-tree and when I
say "gimme a high five" he will press his front paw against my
hand.
Occasionally, I have simple, low-level moments of transcendence.
When I go back from the small town I live in now to the city
whee I grow up, I "feel" things in my heart that makes me smile,
in spite of having a very bad childhood at home there. I love
that city - I love what they're doing there, and yet I'm
convinced that what I "feel" comes from the "unknowable".
#Post#: 12609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: Kerry Date: July 23, 2016, 7:40 am
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I got my cat Milhaus to wink at me when I winked at him. I
have another cat now who won't wink back at me when I wink at
her; but if she wants food, then she'll look at me and wink.
My intention is to say, "I am here, and I see you over there --
and I know you are real and aware. Will you send me a signal
that you see me and know I'm real?" There are levels of
awareness. One is being aware of being aware. There are
people who are aware in their own way; but they're not aware of
being aware. They do not know what they are. Some even
believe awareness is a by-product of matter. I would say these
people are asleep -- or even dead in spiritual terms.
Delivering pizzas, I meet dogs. When some of them look at me,
their eyes seem to question me. Am I real or are they
imagining me -- and what am I if I am real? Do I know they're
real? Animals can and do benefit from associating with
people.
When your cat puts up a paw to give you a high five, isn't that
unknowable in its own way? It's a form of communication which
lets you both get a sense that the other is real. But can you
say how it works? I can't. But I think it safe to say
intention is involved. If you say something, you have the
"intention" to be understood by another "awareness unit." If
your cat puts up his paw, he has the intention that you
understand the gesture.
I know I'm aware; and I "believe" that I'm not inventing
everything in my "reality" -- it's not all hallucinations on my
part. I believe there is "other awareness" out there that is
also making things happen in the "shared reality." I follow
L. Ron Hubbard'a definition of reality as agreement. Agreement
is based on communication and a feeling of being close. So by
my lights, you and your cat are creating a "reality" when you do
what you do.
Why does matter seem so real? Because almost everyone believes
and agrees that it's there. There are various kinds of
reality. Each person has his own personal universe -- of how
things are. Then you have groups of people, maybe only two or
three, who agree on something -- while the rest of the world
doesn't. They may not be able to make happen what they want to
happen in the physical world.
[quote]But I see this same man dealing with the reality around
him, cursing under his breath as he tries to assemble a new
piece of equipment in his Holistic Health clinic. He's
encountering the real facts of our existence that plastic is
plastic, metal is metal, and blood trickles from our bodies when
we skin our knuckles while tightening bolts.[/quote]We have lost
many abilities because we abused them when we had them. Our
consciences told us it was better for us not to have them.
The "crime" involved was always failing to obey the Golden Rule.
There are planes where you can make objects appear just because
you want them to. And you can make them disappear too. The
crime is fighting with others -- like he wants an object to be
there because he put it there and you want to make it disappear.
On this material plane, the agreement is that we can move and
manipulate our bodies. If we want to move other things, we
have to use our bodies to do it. It's like a game-board -- and
your body is the only piece you can move by the rules. Any
other moves are unlawful. What we call "miracles" are unlawful
in their own way to one degree or another. Seriously, every
person on the planet has the ability to perform "miracles" but
they have hidden those abilities from themselves -- and that's a
good thing. We are trapped here -- or imprisoned -- until we
learn how to respect the free will of others -- obeying the
Golden Rule.
Have you ever experienced lucid dreaming where you could make
things happen -- perhaps even make objects appear or disappear?
#Post#: 12610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: paralambano Date: July 23, 2016, 7:45 am
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coldwar -
Matter is apparently deeply entrenched in so many different ways
in our conscious/subconscious minds. It's reinforced
moment-by-moment by our apparent material senses, so it's a
closed circuit but not unbreachable (miracles). There's also the
beliefs of the race, heredity, and psychological factors (fear
mostly) tending to weigh heavily on producing a belief in matter
as something that's real. This is why I still curse when I hurt
myself. I have so far to go. In reality, the accident never
happened, but I can do something about the pain by bypassing the
carnal mind producing it.
I suppose a place to start is to deny the reality of matter by
putting in its place omnipresent Spirit, what you might call the
unknowable if I've understood you correctly. Not side-by-side
with matter; not producing matter. I believe that matter is a
misconception of Spirit. It might sound silly to some at first
but it could be tested in some small ways. One can start by
faith by what others experienced and wrote about it. My faith
tells me that Omnipresent Spirit or Consciousness is knowable. I
know it's real because I have experienced it, not by
matter-body, seen a manifestation of it (not by my matter-eyes)
and heard it (not by my matter-ears). "It" contains all we ever
need and more. Some start from faith and then move into
understanding. How deeply entrenched is this in us?
[quote]Occasionally, I have simple, low-level moments of
transcendence. When I go back from the small town I live in now
to the city whee I grow up, I "feel" things in my heart that
makes me smile, in spite of having a very bad childhood at home
there. I love that city - I love what they're doing there, and
yet I'm convinced that what I "feel" comes from the
"unknowable".[/quote]
Absolutely, coldwar. This is what's real, what you always have
with you - what is Good. Jesus said that the kingdom is within
you (your consciousness) and it's very Good there since Good is
the only reality, permanent. Bad things eventually vanish.
para . . . .
#Post#: 12612--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: paralambano Date: July 23, 2016, 8:28 am
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Kerry wrote:
[quote]Some even believe awareness is a by-product of matter. I
would say these people are asleep -- or even dead in spiritual
terms. [/quote]
[quote]Why does matter seem so real? Because almost everyone
believes and agrees that it's there. There are various kinds
of reality. Each person has his own personal universe -- of
how things are. Then you have groups of people, maybe only two
or three, who agree on something -- while the rest of the world
doesn't. They may not be able to make happen what they want to
happen in the physical world. [/quote]
To which paralambano wholly agrees.
para . . . .
#Post#: 12623--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: coldwar Date: July 24, 2016, 10:57 am
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"Have you ever experienced lucid dreaming where you could make
things happen -- perhaps even make objects appear or disappear?"
I have never experienced lucid dreaming, although I knew a
person who did and described it to me. I generally do not
remember dreams - only occasionally, and I seem to recall
writing about that here a while ago. I was attempting to
dream-journal for awhile, but my memory of the dreams fade so
fast when I wake up, I seldom even had time to reach for my pen
and paper.
But it was different for me as a child. At a very young age, I
had nightmares which I still remember now. The most frequent
one was being in a very dark place - it was like a shoreline
with sand and ocean (possibly before I had even seen sand and
ocean - I was only 4 or 5 years old). From out of the sand,
there were these giant snake-like feathers towering over me,
writhing around and threatening me. Do you recall the kind of
feathers they used to put in pillows - duck feathers I think
which were light brown and black like zebra stripes. I had a
pillow like that when I was a kid, and that's what the giant
feathers looked like in my nightmares. It made me so afraid of
these feathers that would sometimes work their way out of the
pillow that my mother had to buy me a foam pillow - I would not
go to bed without a fuss until she changed my pillow. Now where
did that come from???
#Post#: 12626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: coldwar Date: July 24, 2016, 12:20 pm
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"Kerry wrote:
Quote
Some even believe awareness is a by-product of matter. I would
say these people are asleep -- or even dead in spiritual terms.
Quote
Why does matter seem so real? Because almost everyone believes
and agrees that it's there. There are various kinds of
reality. Each person has his own personal universe -- of how
things are. Then you have groups of people, maybe only two or
three, who agree on something -- while the rest of the world
doesn't. They may not be able to make happen what they want to
happen in the physical world.
To which paralambano wholly agrees."
With all due respect, these things have not been my experience.
I know this is what so many people are talking about in our
days, but I've not experienced reality in this manner. For me,
it's an everyday physical universe, which is wonderful enough -
even too wonderful to comprehend, without adding mystical
realities which mankind might have once had, but lost. My
reality is unchanging and solid - the highway i drive on today
is the same as the one I drove on yesterday, except maybe they
added some pavement patches.
Let's re-visit our musical friend Van Morrison. For the longest
time, he seemed to be putting out albums of songs that were very
mystical - Astral Weeks, Wavelength, Veedon Fleece, Moondance
(esp. the song "Into the Mystic"). Then suddenly there was
Avalon Sunset where he sings a duet with Cliff Richards called
"Whenever God Shines His Light on Me" - a very standard
"Evangelical" thing. After that he re-releases "Enlightenment -
Don't Know What It Is". It seems like his reality suddenly
changed in much the same way mine did - a conversion experience,
generally called re-birth. Being from Belfast, with it's
extremes of Protestantism that went political under Prime
Minister Ian Paisley, it's amazing that, as a mystical seeker,
he would even give any consideration to re-birth christianity,
but "there you go domino".
Maybe new birth christians experience a loss of life, like a DNA
change - "whosoever will lose his life for my sake will save
it".
#Post#: 12627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: coldwar Date: July 24, 2016, 12:23 pm
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhTM9PL9Mow
#Post#: 12629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: Kerry Date: July 24, 2016, 2:50 pm
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[quote author=coldwar link=topic=1111.msg12623#msg12623
date=1469375855]
"Have you ever experienced lucid dreaming where you could make
things happen -- perhaps even make objects appear or disappear?"
I have never experienced lucid dreaming, although I knew a
person who did and described it to me. I generally do not
remember dreams - only occasionally, and I seem to recall
writing about that here a while ago. I was attempting to
dream-journal for awhile, but my memory of the dreams fade so
fast when I wake up, I seldom even had time to reach for my pen
and paper.
But it was different for me as a child. At a very young age, I
had nightmares which I still remember now. The most frequent
one was being in a very dark place - it was like a shoreline
with sand and ocean (possibly before I had even seen sand and
ocean - I was only 4 or 5 years old). From out of the sand,
there were these giant snake-like feathers towering over me,
writhing around and threatening me. Do you recall the kind of
feathers they used to put in pillows - duck feathers I think
which were light brown and black like zebra stripes. I had a
pillow like that when I was a kid, and that's what the giant
feathers looked like in my nightmares. It made me so afraid of
these feathers that would sometimes work their way out of the
pillow that my mother had to buy me a foam pillow - I would not
go to bed without a fuss until she changed my pillow. Now where
did that come from???
[/quote]You saw things which come "out of the sea."
Nightmares are real if you ask me, but the rational part of the
mind is missing. The reality on the astral plane can be
influenced by us -- with or without our conscious control. We
are apt to whip up some scary reality which then can emerge "out
of the sea." The question with some dreams if if we created
the objects in them or if someone else did.
Even scarier perhaps, if enough people agree with you that
objects exist on the astral plane, they tend to come into
existence in the material world. When I saw a man emerging
from mud in Venezuela, my guess is I was seeing something in
between "coming out of the sea" and "coming out of the earth."
I still expect some "savior" to emerge there. I did not create
that, but I saw it.
What happens to our awareness when we dream is a clue about what
happens after our physical body dies and awareness separates
from it. The "spiritually asleep" person is apt to drift off
to some nightmare where his rational mind is missing. Thus the
line:
Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the
grave who shall give thee thanks?
The soul which was godless in this life is not likely to
remember God in the grave. He can be trapped there unless
someone prays for him and angels go to get him. Those who can
remember God in this life are not apt to forget Him after they
die or if they visit hell in a vision or dream. Thus we read
Jonah called out to God from hell; and David said God was with
him in the grave and brought him up.
Psalm 30:3 O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave:
thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
Jesus obtained the right and power to "sound the trump" that
could "wake the dead." Thus many who "slept" in the grave were
awakened. Confusion exists over the afterlife if we
misinterpret what "sleep" means. Some Bible passages appear to
contradict others.
Confusion also exists over "souls" -- which can die. Spirit
does not die, but soul can.
Confusion also exists over the book of Jonah with many giving it
a literal physical reading. The events in the book of Jonah
are not describing physical things. Look at the size of the
city! Look too how the animals repent and so on. And Jonah
tells us he was in hell when the "great fish" swallowed him.
He then went on to preach in hell just as Jesus did. It makes
sense that Jesus compared himself to Jonah.
#Post#: 12630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: Kerry Date: July 24, 2016, 10:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=coldwar link=topic=1111.msg12626#msg12626
date=1469380820]
Let's re-visit our musical friend Van Morrison. For the longest
time, he seemed to be putting out albums of songs that were very
mystical - Astral Weeks, Wavelength, Veedon Fleece, Moondance
(esp. the song "Into the Mystic"). Then suddenly there was
Avalon Sunset where he sings a duet with Cliff Richards called
"Whenever God Shines His Light on Me" - a very standard
"Evangelical" thing. After that he re-releases "Enlightenment -
Don't Know What It Is". It seems like his reality suddenly
changed in much the same way mine did - a conversion experience,
generally called re-birth. Being from Belfast, with it's
extremes of Protestantism that went political under Prime
Minister Ian Paisley, it's amazing that, as a mystical seeker,
he would even give any consideration to re-birth christianity,
but "there you go domino".[/quote]
Some artists mistake things in their lives. I believe some
artists are meant to "channel" music. It's their connection
with Heaven; and if they do it well, they've made the world a
better place. Some are born with talent and meant to "channel"
inspiring and positive music. The Dark Side knows this and
attacks them -- very often with disastrous results, wrecking
lives and preventing them from accomplishing what they were
meant to.
I would not call myself a fan of Led Zeppelin; but I'd say this
song is semi-inspired.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHFxncb1gRY
Or what about this? "The Song Remains the Same." Personally, I
think they could have done better if they had put more work into
it -- but when asked about the album, "House of the Holy,"
Page said, “It’s about all of us being houses of the Holy
Spirit, in a sense.” I could be wrong though -- perhaps that
style of music got through to people who would have ignored
music in a style I prefer.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3emvHepgU
For good or bad, music can affect culture perhaps more
powerfully than most sermons. People underestimate the power of
music.
Some music can come directly from Heaven -- as Handel said The
Messiah did. He had visions when he was writing that.
Similarly painters and sculptors can be inspired. William
Blake wrote in his diary that one day he asked himself if
anyone could paint an angel. A voice answered him, saying,
"Michelangelo could." The voice then claimed to be the
Archangel Gabriel who said he had sat as a model once for
Michelangelo. I find that plausible.
HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=jSKfFFr9vBUC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=william+blake+gabriel+archangel&source=bl&ots=PWmkUIMOd0&sig=5HvviOof-xyW5d0di9T7eNvhkwg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0-rTCw43OAhXTdSYKHdx_D9AQ6AEISzAL#v=onepage&q=william%20blake%20gabriel%20archangel&f=false<br
/>
Blake also once told people at a showing of some of his
paintings that they were copies of works he had seen in the
spiritual realms. I can believe it. It makes sense to me.
#Post#: 12632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transcendence
By: coldwar Date: July 25, 2016, 8:33 am
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Even though you're not a Zep fan, I thought you might enjoy
watching this.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDo4CA13LbY
Were you aware that Page once owned Crowley's house at Loch
Ness? He was the last owner before it burned down.
As a teen in High School, I was a huge Zep fan (who wasn't back
then?) But now that I'm much older, and especially have learned
a lot more about music, I'm noticing something strange about
Zeppelin. I don't mean "occult strange" but "technically
strange". I caught a glimpse of it in the above video during the
live clip just before the final segment when it shows Page
jumping from the 12 string to the 6 string to do that immortal
guitar solo - on stage live, he is playing the solo a musical
half-step lower than what is "real", compared with the actual
audio you're hearing. Remember, this was long before digital
recording and filming - this is important, just bear with me*.
Regarding "The Song Remains The Same" studio version contained
in your Post, I haven't listened to this for several Decades,
but here I actually noticed - Robert Plant's voice sounds
remarkably un-natural - generally a "shrieker", nonetheless,
this does not sound at all like his natural shriek, as one hears
at the end of "Stairway to heaven". This could be a studio trick
gone wrong - I'm just guessing, but I think that song was
recorded in a lower key, and at a slower rhythm. I tried playing
along with it and found it to be in key of D. But Plant's voice
sounds so weird here (like "The Chipmunks"), I would bet they
recorded it a full step lower in C, and at a reduced metre and
then sped the master tape up until it got to the key you
actually hear - D. Plant could've been losing his ability to
shriek by this time, so this bit of musical trickery might have
been used to try and make him sound like his old self, but to do
this with a whole step (instead of a half step) is really
pushing it, and in those days of analogue recording, it can go
horribly wrong - and in this example, it did.
But here's another video about plant's voice through the years -
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fi0TWY2lBQ
-all live performances, and one thing I noticed is that
beginning with the old B&W footage of their original formation
(1968?) all the way through a few decades, his voice hasn't
really changed that much - it's a high voice yes, but during
this whole video, I didn't really ever see him break into the
characteristic "shriek" of the studio recordings. Even near the
end segment of the live version of "Stairway to Heaven", he's
singing in his lower voice, and the band's playing in a slower
metre. (BTW - did you notice the second-to-last clip before
Stairway, Plant is singing with former members of Buffalo
Springfield, notably Neil Young and their hit song "For What
It's Worth"? Cool)
*Back to Page's variation from A minor to Ab minor in live
performance, that's a HUGE clue that they were speeding up the
tapes in the studio on a lot of their songs, to make Plant's
voice sound higher than it really is. That may be
"transcendence", but it's done by purely mechanical means. Now
that we have digital recording, this technique is so much
easier. You can try this at home on any ordinary computer - you
can load a song - any song file (common mp3 format) into digital
editing software, such as "Audacity", then do a "Select" on the
entire track, click on "Effects", then "Change Pitch", edit the
parameters the way you want them, click "Go" and then the entire
track will be re-sampled to the higher or lower pitch you
specified, but WITHOUT CHANGING THE SPEED OR TEMPO of the song!
Amazing. I use this method a lot to change songs from A=440 Hz
to A=432 because of this:
HTML http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-fringe-audiophiles-who-want-to-topple-standard-tuning
This is where music becomes transcendent, I believe. A=432
eliminates a lot of even-order harmonics, and it's best to do it
at source by actually tuning the instruments this way. When I
make the change on an entire digital file with software, it
works well on some songs, but on others, it distorts the
harmonics badly.
But here's some true musical transcendence happening - I love
this one, and there's no key change trickery here - Plant is in
natural voice.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeDylD8dV7U
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