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#Post#: 5547--------------------------------------------------
A light hearted thought
By: James Date: July 4, 2015, 4:09 pm
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Please do not take this to seriously and start thinking I am
about to "give up".
I was thinking of those I know who need prayer, now that is a
value laden phrase.
I thought of prayer chains, prayer groups and all the teaching
on praying as a weapon in the Christians armour.
So my thought went like this:- if we were able to get all the
christians in the world praying at the same time for a specific
need would we see a miracle?
If the answer is yes, does that mean that it is quantity of
prayer that gets the job done?
On the other hand if the answer is no then why do we ask others
to pray when we feel we have a need, since it is not numbers
that moves the hand of God?
Am I the only one who has these odd thoughts, seems so.
#Post#: 5548--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Pat Date: July 4, 2015, 5:49 pm
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There are a number of multiple prayer efforts like National Day
of Prayer and Worship, the Women's World Day of Prayer and the
Global Day of Prayer to name but a few that I found on Google.
The bible tells us that if two of you on earth agree about
anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in
heaven. So obviously this must be the thinking behind these
communal days of prayer that the more agree then the more likely
God is to answer.
And we ask others to pray with us to help hold up our arms I
think, as Hur and Aaron did with Moses.
My own opinion though, is that God will only answer those
requests that are according to his will so it is important so
ask what that is before we pray. Words alone, no matter how
eloquent don't cut it with God and yet a simple request which is
in line with his will he will hear.
#Post#: 5549--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Helen Date: July 4, 2015, 9:02 pm
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That is indeed a very good opening post ...not only a good
thought, but a very interesting one! :)
As Pat says...they have tried doing it by quantity. But I guess
not many people know IF they got the answer they were praying
about? Do you know Pat?
We have been told and have read of, the day King George called
England to pray...and 'they' say the tide of the war turned
because of it.
Of course one mind quickly goes to :- 2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble
themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their
wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive
their sin, and will heal their land. That sound collective I
think.
Yet I have to believe that one person in the mind and Spirit of
God, can speak His word and it be done. Thinking now of Elisha
and Elijah.
I have always puzzled over Elijah. Did he hear a word before he
spoke it, or did he just speak it in faith and pray it into
being? Talking here of three years of drought ..then the
announcement of the sound of rain... (which wasn't 'naturally'
but spiritually, as all there was was a 'tiny- cloud' after he
had prayed 7 times!!! If God had spoken it to his inner ear,
why did he have to pray so hard to see the answer if God wanted
it anyway?
Same with Elisha and the widows son...he declared
something..then had to travail through to actually see it. Did
he 'hear' it first, or did he speak in faith and birth it into
being? If that is the way around..what is the ingredient which
causes God to be moved to act?
"Elijah was a man of like passion". We all have the same
faith...yet we don't seem like we do , do we?...as we don't see
Elijah or Elisha stuff happening!
Many of the 'greats'...Reece Howells, C.Bevington , 'Praying
Hyde', Spurgeon, S. Wiggleworth etc etc were all one man prayers
and got wonderful answers.
2 Chron 16 9 "For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout
the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them
whose heart is perfect toward him."
So is the power within the collective or in the cluster? Well
we know that power is in GOD not in us...but we have His Name!!
Yet there is a great drought in the land, that is for sure.
...........H
#Post#: 5552--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: James Date: July 5, 2015, 4:12 am
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Good thoughts Pat.
[color=black]There are a number of multiple prayer efforts like
National Day of Prayer and Worship, the Women's World Day of
Prayer and the Global Day of Prayer to name but a few that I
found on Google.
Yes there are, I know lots of groups that pray and I myself
receive daily request from the CMA prayer chain for my added
prayers.
The bible tells us that if two of you on earth agree about
anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in
heaven. That’s true. So obviously this must be the thinking
behind these communal days of prayer that the more agree then
the more likely God is to answer.
That’s where it goes wrong, one can be a majority with God, take
the ‘children of Israel’ v Moses as an example.
And we ask others to pray with us to help hold up our arms I
think, as Hur and Aaron did with Moses.
Yes we do, we do “feel” the uplift, so is more people praying to
benefit us rather than to get God to move?
My own opinion though, is that God will only answer those
requests that are according to his will so it is important so
ask what that is before we pray. Words alone, no matter how
eloquent don't cut it with God and yet a simple request which is
in line with his will he will hear.
This takes me back to Helen’s post on the immutability of God,
his unchanging will. If we know something is his will then it is
never wrong to pray. Such as for salvation of others or healing.
#Post#: 5553--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Pat Date: July 5, 2015, 6:06 am
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[quote=James]That’s where it goes wrong, one can be a majority
with God, take the ‘children of Israel’ v Moses as an
example.[/quote]
Agreed James. Anybody can seem to pray but I think God will
only answer those who are truly praying in line with his will
and with faith. And also I think that the person praying must
be righteous, not only in the scriptural sense that they are
made righteous by the blood of the lamb but by living righteous
and Godly lives. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful
and effective. James 5:16
[quote]so is more people praying to benefit us rather[/quote]
I would say that often when we pray for somebody we may not feel
led to pray for healing but we can always pray for God's will to
be done and for strength to cope and for fortitude and peace and
in that way we are [quote]supporting our friends.
If we know something is his will then it is never wrong to pray.
Such as for salvation of others or healing.[/quote]
I don't think healing is always in God's will. I'm thinking of
a story told in one of Colin Urquhart's books of a man who was
sick and they kept praying for him but then God told them to let
him go and he died.
[quote=Helen]But I guess not many people know IF they got the
answer they were praying about? Do you know Pat? [/quote]
No Helen I don't but I suspect some do and some don't which
seems to be the norm.
A few years ago at our church we had a leader who was a lovely
man but who was ineffective as a leader. Then one day my friend
Dave preached 2 Chronicles 7:14 and most of the church took it
on board. Within days things started to change and within weeks
we had a change of leadership.
[quote]So is the power within the collective or in the
cluster?[/quote]
Perhaps it's in unity of spirit.
#Post#: 5558--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Dave Date: July 6, 2015, 12:13 am
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A light hearted thought!!!!!!! this is serious chewing stuff; to
me praying and then adding if it be thy will is a bit of a
stickler to me; if one prays surely one believes it is God's
will? so unless there's a check in the Spirit I pray; I like the
power of agreement in praying; wether it's two or many; Acts 12
is interesting; Peters in prison and it says in v 5 " but prayer
was made without ceasing of the church of God for him" so how
long is without ceasing? and why were they astonished when
Peter turns up; if they knew beforehand that it was for certain
God's will; one would have thought one prayer would have been
enough and leave the door open; but that's me; but prayer and me
at the moment are at cross purposes.
#Post#: 5559--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Pat Date: July 6, 2015, 4:07 am
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=431.msg5558#msg5558
date=1436159612]
A light hearted thought!!!!!!! this is serious chewing stuff; to
me praying and then adding if it be thy will is a bit of a
stickler to me; if one prays surely one believes it is God's
will? so unless there's a check in the Spirit I pray; I like the
power of agreement in praying; wether it's two or many; Acts 12
is interesting; Peters in prison and it says in v 5 " but prayer
was made without ceasing of the church of God for him" so how
long is without ceasing? and why were they astonished when
Peter turns up; if they knew beforehand that it was for certain
God's will; one would have thought one prayer would have been
enough and leave the door open; but that's me; but prayer and me
at the moment are at cross purposes.
[/quote]
I think adding, "if it be your will." to the end of a prayer is
pointless. Surely we ought to ask, "what is your will in this
situation?" before we pray.
#Post#: 5562--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Amadeus Date: July 6, 2015, 9:27 am
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[quote]Pat: I think adding, "if it be your will." to the end of
a prayer is pointless. Surely we ought to ask, "what is your
will in this situation?" before we pray.[/quote]
[font=courier]Amen! Of course, just the asking of that question
could be a prayer, could it not?[/font]
#Post#: 5563--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: Amadeus Date: July 6, 2015, 9:49 am
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[font=courier]Perhaps it is the quantity of quality prayer that
makes a difference:
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another,
that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a
righteous man availeth much." James 5:1
Who is counted as a "righteous man" in the Lord's eyes?
Consider perhaps first, Pat's question: "What is your (God's)
will in this situation?"
Then, if we are certain it is God's will (or if we are
definitely uncertain), should we then go ahead? If we do and a
dozen others or a thousand others join us, will we accomplish
something good?
If all of us are "righteous men" and all of us are "in his name"
at the moment, how can we miss? We cannot, but when are not
righteous and we are not in his name, what should we expect?
What do we expect?
To have great faith that something is going to happen may also
be a key:
"Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to
day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
more clothe you, O ye of little faith?" Matt 6:30
"And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O YE OF LITTLE
faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and
there was a great calm." Matt8:26
"Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little
faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought
no bread?" Matt 16:8
Notice that in each case, Jesus used the plural pronoun ("Ye" in
the King James Version). It was not one person of little faith,
but more than one.
What does negative faith do to positive faith? That is, if as
someone mentioned, as Moses stood at times seemingly alone in
his faith in God against the multitudes of Israel who murmured
and complained. This is the "quality" of his positive faith, the
faith of one man, but who can stand against God?
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who
can be against us?" Rom 8:31
If we have 10 Moses standing firm with God would they not
accomplish even more than the one?
Consider also these verses:
"Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing
grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will
break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon
it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they
should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith
the Lord GOD." Ezek 14:13-14[/font]
#Post#: 5572--------------------------------------------------
Re: A light hearted thought
By: James Date: July 8, 2015, 8:58 am
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Very good post John and I like the thought that the three big
guns could only deliver themselves, could that situation have
changed after the cross?
I remember Abraham and Gods will to destroy Sodom, he (Abraham)
knew Gods will but he prayed and took God to task to deliver the
city from destruction, much as Moses did when he prayed "God
remove me from your book of life but not this people". Both
these men prevailed in a measure against Gods will. I know we
can not leave out of the equation that the Lord was also seeing
what sort of man was Abraham and Moses, but it does give me hope
in the face of a situation that might look on the face of it as
if the decision is already made in heaven and can not be
changed. We must always impute more grace to God then we think
humanly possible.
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