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#Post#: 16046--------------------------------------------------
Job 41
By: Dave Date: January 1, 2023, 6:38 pm
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I’ve been looking at this chapter concerning Leviathan but a
few verses before 41 the Lord makes a statement to Job; “Behold
now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.”
Where did that take place I ask?
This Leviathan creature is mentioned also in Ps 74 vs 13, Ps 104
vs 26 and in Isa 27 vs 1 it is named as a piercing and crooked
serpent, and a dragon, all this came from an old booklet on
deliverance that I came across this Christmas, and in it they
give examples of this serpent as being active in the world and
in people, which took me to looking at a book written in 1651
called Leviathan: Or, The Matter, Forme and power of the
commonwealth by Thomas Hobbes, he also has a book on Behemoth:
in his Leviathan is where the writer raises a whole lot of stuff
taking place today, in his day it came under political
philosophy, not having access to his work it would be
interesting to know if he saw it as a spirit in his day.
This is probably a “ you had to be there moment” but it had me
thinking “we wrestle not with flesh and blood but———-“ has
anyone had any dealings with a Leviathan?
#Post#: 16047--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: guest71 Date: January 1, 2023, 11:56 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=1053.msg16046#msg16046
date=1672619939]
EDITED
I’ve been looking at this chapter concerning Leviathan but a few
verses before 41 the Lord makes a statement to Job; “Behold now
behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.”
This Leviathan creature is named as a dragon and as a piercing
and crooked serpent, this serpent being active in the world and
in people or, according to Thomas Hobbes, The Matter, Forme and
power of the commonwealth.
This is probably a “ you had to be there moment” but it had me
thinking “we wrestle not with flesh and blood but———-“ has
anyone had any dealings with a Leviathan?
[/quote]
Blimey Dave, you have sure had one of those "things that go bump
in the night" experiences.
Reminds me of Kerry and his thoughts on 'incubus and succubus
nightmares' as defined by wikipedia "Nightmares derives from
'incubus', which is, in male form, a horse like demon that seeks
to have sexual intercourse with sleeping women; the
corresponding spirit in female form being called a 'succubus'.
In medieval Europe, union with an incubus was supposed by some
to result in the birth of witches, demons, and deformed human
offspring."
#Post#: 16048--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: guest71 Date: January 2, 2023, 12:02 am
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Sorry, accidental duplication.
#Post#: 16049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: Rita Date: January 2, 2023, 12:18 am
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Never heard of it before Dave - how would we know we have
encountered this kind of spirit, how would it show itself ?
#Post#: 16050--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: guest71 Date: January 2, 2023, 12:54 am
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[quote author=Rita link=topic=1053.msg16049#msg16049
date=1672640322]
Never heard of it before Dave - how would we know we have
encountered this kind of spirit, how would it show itself ?
[/quote]
Paranormality, in general, seems to 'pass me by', but I have no
answer to the situations wherein a young child (for instance)
has been known to accurately recount historical events, of which
they could not have had any 'normal' prior knowledge.
Leaves me unqualified to suggest how one recognises a 'spirit',
but my guess is that the means might well vary person to person
(there is, however the scriptural advice in 1John 4:1-3)
#Post#: 16052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: Rita Date: January 2, 2023, 7:23 am
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I did look up the passages and links to Job 41, but came away
thinking of something quite different ….
The Leviathan was created by God as part of his original
creation, and it was good. ….however over the years and within
different cultures it had been created into a feared creature, a
monster.
Job would have known what God was talking about when he spoke
about the creature in chapter 41.
However it made me wonder what else people have created as
monsters……it actually made me think of how man has perceived
Satan over the years, all the images and fears that have been
born out of man’s imagination.
#Post#: 16056--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: James Date: January 2, 2023, 11:55 am
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Interesting.
I have found his book and have read some, because of the age,
it is written in a very deferential way with much preamble. I
have not yet come to anything that would confirm or not, that he
saw Leviathan as a spirit of his time.
#Post#: 16057--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: Dave Date: January 2, 2023, 3:10 pm
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Thanks for everybody's 10cents, I pulled him up on wikiP but
if one sees a one world emerging, his philosophy for his day of,
no separation of power, a sovereign must control civil,military,
judicial and ecclesiastical powers sort of fits into what the
'world' is instituting today, we can single out different men
and women with agenda's today, and that raises the question
could the spirit ( as a principality) behind them be the
Leviathan?
Cp 41 ends with He beholdeth all high things, he is king over
all the children of 'pride". Proverbs says 'In the mouth of the
foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall
preserve them' 'pride" now that's another story.
The days of the door knob casting out have fallen by the way,
although it was part of the Lords mandate to his disciples.
Rita, just my musing, if Job was with God at the creation of
Levia'n it would seem to follow it was after Eden, fear is a
great motivator for creating our own monsters, as to satan, you
pay your money and take your choice, as to recognising any
spirit calls for to me, the discerning of spirits, some are
obvious but some are of the more subtle ilk.
Paul exhorts Tim' to stir up the gift, one concludes it was
dormant at that time, maybe the spirits of today also enjoy the
spirit of dormancy too? 'Nuff said as they say.
#Post#: 16059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: Rita Date: January 3, 2023, 12:36 am
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Hi Dave,
I didn’t think Job was with God when the creature was created,
my reference to job knowing what God meant was in reference to
him describing the mythological creature that the Canaanite’s
and others cultures had turned the creature into over the years.
So I still believe the creature was good and there before the
fall.
God was saying to Job, who is above these things……..the things
you fear, who is able to defeat them.
For me personally Looking at the passages spoke to me about
something different to what you were looking at….
Xx
#Post#: 16060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Job 41
By: Dave Date: January 3, 2023, 11:05 am
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[size=14pt]Point taken Rita, assumption on my part based on the
chapter before where the Lord says to Job " Behold now Behemoth
which "I made with thee;"______ " I for one puzzle, if you are
sitting in ashes and not having a good week, why the Lord brings
up the creature at all except and he seems to nearly humanise
it, by saying, Will he speak or make a covenant, other than
bringing Jobs thinking around to acknowledge just how great is
the Lord. Maybe the point being any monster created is inferior
to the God we serve, and they can be slain by the sword.
Isaiah 27 vs 1 is interesting: and also in that John in Rev
writes that he saw a monster in the sea, if we take Rev' as the
end times, the types signify meaning.
[/size
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