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       #Post#: 1732--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: rasool083
       Date: December 28, 2012, 6:57 am
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       it must work in factory and I must have some powder that mix
       with water there and then I can see result then.
       how I must test it?
       #Post#: 1733--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: Michel
       Date: December 28, 2012, 9:03 am
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       I think you need to dissolve the CaCO3 before going on with the
       reaction, else it might be uneconomical. why not try Shiva's
       suggestion, or do you not have HCl solution?
       --- Quote from: rasool083 link ---
       >
       > it must work in factory and I must have some powder that mix
       with water there and then I can see result then.
       > how I must test it?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       you can do a pilot test in the lab then see how it goes
       #Post#: 1735--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: Shiva
       Date: December 28, 2012, 9:51 am
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       or you can use dilute sulfuric acid on the surface which will
       leave poorly soluble Calcium sulfate on the surface. Then, you
       need not to add oxalic acid after all. Again, try on the sample
       first.
       Shiva
       #Post#: 1736--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: rasool083
       Date: December 28, 2012, 9:56 am
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       I have some limitation.one of them is that I must do all
       reaction in one step
       I was test oxalic acid and it was good.but in the higher speed
       the quality will decrease,
       I am thinking if I can have an accelerator in the process it
       will work in high speed condition
       I can not divide it in to tow separate step
       #Post#: 1737--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: rasool083
       Date: December 28, 2012, 10:17 am
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       the calcium oxalate must bonded on the surface of stone so I
       must rub the oxalic acid in the form of brick on the stone in
       present of water
       do you have any question about it?
       #Post#: 1739--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: Michel
       Date: December 28, 2012, 11:42 am
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       try grinding the CaCO3 brick surface to very fine particles; ie
       decrease the individual particle size so the reaction rate can
       be higher. add little quantities of dilute HCl intermittently on
       the brick surface, then add the oxalic acid
       #Post#: 1742--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: rasool083
       Date: December 28, 2012, 1:37 pm
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       could I add a HCl salt to oxalic acid brick ? I can not using
       liquid.perhaps I can using a salt that release HCl in the water
       what is the HCl duty?
       #Post#: 1743--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: Michel
       Date: December 28, 2012, 2:14 pm
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       I was suggesting adding HCl solution to increase the
       concentration of Ca2+, so that the rate of the reaction is
       increased
       the HCl solution will react with the CaCO3 to produce CaCl2
       which will precipitate calcium oxalate on adding oxalic acid.
       however since addition of HCl solution will most likely degrade
       your marble further, you can try adding a layer of ammonium
       oxalate to the marble sample. the ammonium oxalate solution has
       a neutral pH and will not decompose the stone. it will react
       with the calcium carbonate to precipitate a film of calcium
       oxalate on the surface of the marble.
       Ammonium carbonate, the other product of this reaction is
       immediately decomposed and the film of Calcium oxalate remains.
       What do you think?
       #Post#: 1744--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: Shiva
       Date: December 28, 2012, 2:23 pm
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       Yes Mich. Instead of Ammonium oxalate, what about using Sodium
       oxalate? as the side product ammonium carbonate decomposes
       slowly into ammonia. I'm sure none likes it.
       Shiva
       #Post#: 1745--------------------------------------------------
       Re: an accelerator for calsium oxalate formation
   DIR By: Shiva
       Date: December 28, 2012, 2:37 pm
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       Also, oxalate compounds are cheaper than Oxalic acid. I tell you
       what Rasool, the problem with your reaction is Calcium carbonate
       -AN INSOLUBLE SALT. Of course, you will get Calcium oxalate on
       the surface but the reaction won't be a complete one. It is just
       like dissolving Calcium carbonate in sulfuric acid. As Insoluble
       compounds are on both sides (reactants & products), it will slow
       down your reaction and the reaction may not be completed.
       Shiva
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