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#Post#: 554--------------------------------------------------
Religious Discussion
By: Codrew Date: July 26, 2013, 9:58 pm
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According to Soviet, I have to go about this in a respective
manor and I expect the same from you guys.
I want to begin by telling you what this post is NOT. It is not
a debate; we are not trying to convince anybody that their
beliefs are wrong or evil or whatever else. This is not mean to
offend people; if sensitive topics offend you regardless of what
side you are on, then there is some maturing that you need to do
before coming here. This post is not meant to judge; I don't
judge people soul on their religion and I most definitely will
not judge you according to what is posted here. What this post
IS meant for is to attempt to decrease the amount of attention
it gets on the KGM website during games. I go there to play and
make games, not debate religion. I hope that during our
conversation we may ALL (theist and atheists alike) keep an open
mind to what the other sides are presenting. Now, let's get
started shall we?
I (obviously) will go first. Despite what I think about
religion, I like to know how people's minds work. The mind is an
incredible piece of our bodies that doesn't function quite the
same way as anybody else's. I am an Atheist on all accounts of
higher power (typically the christian god or Ala). Before I give
any reason as to why I do believe in such deities, I want to
hear why you guys believe whatever it is that you believe. Like
I said, I want to know how your minds work. Seeing the reason
behind why a christian is a christian or an atheist is an
atheist is important to me because I am the type of person who
gets a kick out of logic and reason. Please feel free to post
questions or "evidence" you have down below. I will be keeping
tabs on this post, so chances are that I will see all of or most
of the replies. Have fun kogas.
#Post#: 557--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: -TheFallenGamer Date: July 26, 2013, 10:06 pm
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I don't know what exactly you were trying to get out of this but
what think you were mainly asking us to do is post are beliefs,
Aye?
Ok, ill tell you what i believe.
I am an atheist because I believe that a person should have
faith in themselves other than a Figment of there imagination.
#Post#: 559--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: Codrew Date: July 26, 2013, 10:15 pm
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[quote author=-TheFallenGamer link=topic=83.msg557#msg557
date=1374894372]
I don't know what exactly you were trying to get out of this but
what think you were mainly asking us to do is post are beliefs,
Aye?
[/quote]
Kind of but not really. I don't typically care what a person
believes, this is about the why. I would love to review or
research new evidence to either side I may have looked over
before. I have studied the bible and generally know more about
it than actual Christians/Mormons/Catholics do. I have done
minimal research on Paganism (I LOVE Wiccans, you people are so
sweet), and I am probably going to at least read the Quran
sometime in the future just to see what they are all about. I
like to study this stuff, but I can't see why somebody would
take this book seriously and not take the magic school bus books
seriously.
#Post#: 603--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: MrSovietOnion Date: July 27, 2013, 4:58 pm
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Welp, probably gonna get some hate for this, but I am, in fact,
a Christian. But before you start hounding me with "where's the
evidence" questions, let me explain to you why I believe what I
believe.
First of all I just want to say that I'm a Christian simply
because I choose to be. It's not because I had some "divine
interference" experience or anything like that. I flat out just
want to be one. Before I explain why, let me give you a little
background on myself. I was born in a Christian home, and I've
been going to a Christian school. My dad is highly conservative
and works at a church. For the majority of my life, I just
accepted God as truth and didn't really consider the opposing
side. Earlier this year, and I mean like, much much much before
Christmas, I became an atheist. I started to question the Bible
and became a generic "I have actual evidence and I'm going to
rub it in your face all day long because I'm a jackass" atheist.
I even did a report for extra credit in Science on evolution and
started one on the Big Bang Theory with a friend. Then, not too
too long ago, when I had finally become satisfied by figuring
out pretty much all the God vs. No God arguments (pretty basic
stuff, honestly) I stopped giving a crap entirely. Before then I
was a pretty passionate atheist, but then I came to a point
where I just got bored of it. I literally knew enough about both
sides of the debate to successfully crush almost anyone my age
(some older, too) in an argument about religion. Interestingly
enough, I still immensely enjoy making both Christians and
Atheists look like idiots for not knowing jack about their
beliefs. But anyway, I was asked by my dad to start praying
again, and decided to do it every once in a while because I was
open to the idea. Nothing to lose, really. Guess what happened?
Hardly anything, honestly. I guess the only reason I decided to
be a Christian is because of the following reasons.
1. My best friends are all Christians. Specifically, someone
I've gotten so close to that I would die for her, is a
Christian. The thought of spending an eternity in some divine
dimension or whatever pleased me greatly. That's as far into
that as I'm going to get, because that'll get ultra personal.
2. I'm terrified of hell. Seriously, I thought too much about it
as a kid and it's a legitimate phobia of mine among other
things. Might as well just not bother taking the risk.
3. Pascal's wager, though that can sort of be categorized under
the above reason. If you're an atheist or a theist and don't
know what Pascal's Wager is, you seriously need to do some
freaking research, because this is basic stuff.
4. Prayer might work. I don't know if it does or not, but it
might.
5. I see literally nothing to lose by believing in God except
the respect of some dense atheists; if they're that shallow
anyway then I don't really need their respect at all.
Despite being a Christian, I still seriously dislike the whole
church community. For some reason, I feel like almost everyone
there is being a "holier than thou" douche, and it pisses me
off. So, you know what? I don't pray before every meal. I don't
constantly talk about how God does stuff for me, like I have
some sort of umbilical chord to him. I hardly talk about my
beliefs at all unless I feel like some atheist/theist needs to
shut up, and believe me; it's extremely easy to make them look
and feel like an absolute idiot. Now, you may ask, what do I
believe scientifically?
Well, to be honest, I'm not sure. I think that most modern day
scientist-atheists get a little too caught up in their atheism
and forget about the science part. If you want proof, look at
Richard Dawkins. Believe it or not, he's actually some sort of
biological scientist or something. Yes, I do believe the
universe is 13.7 billion years old. Using light as a measurement
for time is HIGHLY accurate and I really do think that
Christians who believe that the universe was created in 6 days
and that the earth has only existed for about 6,000 years are,
for the most part, simpletons. There's scientific evidence that
denies that in its entirety, choosing not to look at that is
simply arrogant on their part. As it pertains to the age of the
earth itself, I'm not sure exactly what I believe and therefore
I don't claim to *know* anything, about anything at all for that
matter. What I HAVE learned is that carbon dating as a time
measurement is only accurate for about 30,000 years; beyond that
it's not so reliable. I DO think that the earth is millions if
not billions of years old, but I'm not sure what I think of the
whole 4.54 billion figure. From what I've seen, that hasn't been
supported by enough evidence to be considered proof. And on to
the evolution theory; I honestly don't know. Obviously
microevolution exists, that's a given. But macroevolution, I'm a
bit iffy on. It's not that I'm uninformed on the matter; I know
damn well what the theory entails. It's just that, it has SOME
evidence, but not QUITE enough evidence for me to feel either
way about it.
I could really write a book about all the complex things I
believe in, but instead I'll just stop it here with a quick
laymen's statement that sums it up.
God might be real. God might not be real. I choose to believe in
God simply because I want to believe in God. Do I have evidence?
Not necessarily. Am I claiming that I have evidence? Hell no.
It's just personal preference.
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If you have any questions at all, feel free to ask me. I love
talking about this sort of thing. :)
#Post#: 620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: DevinEngland Date: July 27, 2013, 9:14 pm
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I'm atheist simply because I don't believe in anything else.
Trying to reason it all out, and make it make sense to me, it
just doesn't work for me.
I was forced into Christianity as a child, at about 5 years old,
maybe slightly older, but at about 13 years old, or when I was
in 6th or 7th grade, I decided that I was tired of being told
what I believed, and being forced to go places I didn't want to
go. I decided to try and question everything, and no one in the
church could answer my questions. I was just told "You gotta
have faith there, son, God'll do it all for you, it'll make
sense to you when God sorts it out"
And when no one could make it make sense to me, and I refused to
believe an omniscient asshole in the sky created everything, I
was essentially branded atheist by the community. And any church
I went to following that all treated me the same way. It's
almost like they had atheist vision or something.
Anyway, I began to consider Christians as Sheeple. Or Sheep
People. Those who refused to question their surroundings, or
anything in general, and preferred to have their information and
history spoon fed to them by those with more authority. I began
to seriously consider anyone in an authority position's right to
make their claims, especially if all they could say about what
they knew was "I was told to say this" or "That's just how it
works" or "I'm you're 'insert authority title here,' don't
question me."
So at that point, I decided, that for all practical purposes, I
was atheist until something makes sense.
#Post#: 633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: Codrew Date: July 28, 2013, 12:29 am
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I think I have a new-found respect for you Soviet. You are the
first person to be so truthful about the reasons behind your
beliefs. I know that sometimes it is just easier to go along
with what other people believe because you are afraid of loosing
them or just flat out love them to the point where your own
ideas simply don't matter as much (I know where you are coming
from). I don't necessarily agree with the part about how you
submit due to fear of hell, but I have empathy for you there. It
takes a special kind of man to submit to something they aren't
entirely convinced is true for somebody important.
Me on the other hand, I'm pretty much in the same boat as Devin.
For as long as I can remember, my mom and step father have
forced me and my two younger brothers into church and
Christianity (which is fucked up coming from any belief, but
that is for another time), so I was brainwashed for a really
long time. My (real) dad, whom I only see every other week,
Gave me a choice. He told me to do my own research and to
question everything before following it blindly. If I ever
wanted to go to church on his weekends, he would support and
drive me there if I so desired. After months of confusion, fear,
and altering my perspective, I realized that religion (NOT JUST
Christianity) is bogus.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate religion. I would LOVE to
believe that I could spent eternity with the people I love. I
wish more than anything that it was true, but I can't and
shouldn't try to convince myself. There is a girl who I would
want to spend all of eternity with. I want to be able to be with
her forever. This isn't somebody I have necessarily dated, nor
somebody that is a result of infatuation, but somebody I care
about a lot and would do anything for. If there was a way or
possibility to give her eternal life I would do it in a
heartbeat. Any possibility to keep her out of harm's way would
be one worth trying, but religion isn't a "possibility," it is
all just myth, lore, and a way to control the mass population.
I don't "give a crap" about it either. Religion isn't something
I consider important to myself or anybody, but the fact that it
restricts free will and tells you that things we were naturally
made to do are wrong is what bugs me. I do my best to help
people out of the brainwashed state that they were often raised
or tricked into, but the sad truth is that they are usually so
deep and so lost that no amount of assistance will be useful to
them. I feel sorry for those who have been sucked into it, and I
do hope that one day it will disappear.
The only spiritual thing I can still believe in today is the art
of witchcraft (not fireball sorcery like in skyrim). I believe
this because of Astral Projection. I have had OBEs before and it
feels great. The first time I did it, I wondered outside of my
room and into the food pantry to see if I could test the realism
in my experience. I counted 8 cookies in a box that had been
left open. I then willed myself to awaken. I went to the pantry
and counted 8 cookies in the box. This was one of the coolest
experiences of my life. What does this have to do with
witchcraft you ask? Well I did it by means of focus and weeks of
practice and meditation to harness my inner self. My experiences
correlate with the dimensional theory which makes it plausible.
I have to take a shit and don't want to loose all these
words.... so I'll be posting again shortly to continue.
#Post#: 635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: Codrew Date: July 28, 2013, 12:42 am
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Aaaahhhh that was nice. Now where was I?
All I really need here is a conclusion. So religion is bad
because it takes away free will and enslaves those who allow
themselves to fall victim. Paganism/Wicca is good because they
teach you to be in tune with people and energy around you as
well as believing and depending on yourself. That's all I have
to say right now.
#Post#: 638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: Username Date: July 28, 2013, 1:11 am
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Thanks Codrew, in a legit, serious way.You helped me sort out
one of the main issues I had in my life at the moment.
The Cookie event that you had is similar to what I have all the
time. I can predict the future, in a way to an extent. I can see
but a small amount of the event in my head, but I never know the
time, date, year, or huge specifics. Example: In my sleep, I
caught a tiny tidbit of me, my Mimi, and siblings all driving in
her orange Sonic, and we passed a advertisement billboard with
an ad for the Armada Fair.( a fair in MI) I woke up from the
"dream", and went about my business. I didn't remember the
dream, as the same with all the others, until the event that I
predicted would occur, occurs.
The way you helped is confusing, to long and difficult to
explain by typing the words. You kinda have to hear it from my
perspective to get it. Maybe i'll make a video, or skype(if i
ever get it)about it sometime. Just think of this post as
another minor fact about me, or tell yourself that Im a liar,
and post a rude, and witty remark below.
BTW:If you ask me to predict the future for you, I will find
you, and machete you to death. I have utterly no control over if
I have that type of dream or not.
Anyways, thanks for your time, and insult me away.
#Post#: 640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: Codrew Date: July 28, 2013, 1:23 am
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There is no need for insults here (In fact, I frown upon it). I
believe you. There is a bunch of weird shit that happens to us
that we don't quite understand yet. We also can't come up with a
valid reason that time is a thing. for all we know it may just
be an illusion for which we can see through.
Ever since I was a kid, I was very keen on detecting the
presence of another creature near me, something that I guess
most people can't do to this extent. I have also tried telepathy
with people and it does work to a certain extent (feelings are
communicated, not words). By experience I do believe these weird
things to be true and possible. Psychic visions aren't something
I have personally experienced. However I see no reason as to why
it can't happen.
#Post#: 643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Religious Discussion
By: MrSovietOnion Date: July 28, 2013, 5:46 am
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I find myself agreeing with you, Codrew, more than disagreeing.
Honestly, I hate the fact that I was forced into the church and
religion, I hate the fact that everyone follows it like blind
sheep, I know that it is, in fact, used to control people, and
this is mainly why I don't tell the right winged super
conservatives at my church (I'm actually there just hanging out
right now) about what I believe. Another reason is it's over
most of their heads anyway, honestly. You can always tell when
your ideas are over someone's head when they just deny it with
circular reasoning. Like I said, I only choose to believe in God
because there's a chance I might be right and get to go to
heaven. If not, I don't really lose anything. Really, if I were
to call myself anything, it would probably be something along
the lines of an agnostic christianic buddhist apathetic. I'm
pretty content not knowing, I guess. I don't care enough to
really find out, but I also refuse to follow the whole religious
herd blindly.
I guess one of the main things that drove me away from atheism
was the fact that even they failed to answer a lot of the
questions I had. The deeper I got into the atheist community,
the more similarities I found between them and the main
Christian community. At the core, both of them are just circle
jerks of basic information. They never even bother to look at
truly valid points from either side and consider them, they just
sit around with each other all day and praise themselves for the
things they think they know. Bring up an opposing opinion in
either community and they instantly think you're an idiot. Like
it or not, most atheists today are as stupid, arrogant, and
generally just annoying and idiotic as most Christians. I say
most because you guys seem to actually know what you're talking
about. You've both (Devin and Codrew) seen the perspective of
the church and that of atheism and have made something of an
informed decision. Most people aren't capable of doing that,
which is why we have "sheeple" in both communities. It's
freaking annoying.
The upside to believing in God? Among other things, I'm free to
picture him as a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Believing in God is
MUCH more fun and enjoyable if you think of him like the Flying
Spaghetti Monster, trust me.
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