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#Post#: 2007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Aknot
Date: September 4, 2014, 7:13 am
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--- Quote from: Spider link ---
>
> LOL The Zombies are on lower settings than what they are on
Mads, only thing changed is some of the loot settings.
>
> o and we have been playing a couple of RL days and have only
died like once each when we tried to enter the city.
>
--- End Quote ---
Again maybe it is different when there are more people on and 3
people are working together. However as you notice in most of my
posts and some of others we are concerned about the single
player.
No doubt you will come back stating how you solo survived and
how well you can play the game at these challenging settings. I
say good for you. Its something you like.
Me we will see however if MMs server turns out anything like I
expect I probably wont stay around.
For the record I was forced towards the outskirts of the biome
as that is the best chance to get food/water. I wasnt even
coming close (that I could tell) to the city. I was trying to
bounce back and forth between the plains biome (safer? HA!) to
the destroyed biome.
#Post#: 2008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Spider
Date: September 4, 2014, 7:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ya we didn’t even get to see the city sky line either. We died
just inside the destroyed zone too. We were unprepared. The game
difference is the starting with nothing and the constant stress
to survive because of it. I personally like that new players
can’t run straight into the destroyed Biome and grab high end
loot in the first game day. The settings we are trying are
slowing down getting to that spot where you can go anywhere and
loot anything anytime you want without stress or danger
(boring). Logging back on and not finding extra bounce loot in
the house you just looted before you logged out is really
helping to stretch out the interesting game play and slow down
the overabundance of resources.
#Post#: 2009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Aknot
Date: September 4, 2014, 7:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Honestly I dont think any new player can run into the city. The
Police Spitters alone would take care of that. If someone is
getting into the Police Station (or high rise for that matter)
with a stone axe more power to them.
However I think you are over stating/over exaggerating that a
new player can walk into the city/destroyed biome and grab high
end loot.
I was in the desert to start and as soon as I spawned I crouched
as It was night. Then came the spawning. They were all around
me. I wasnt even near the destroyed biome. As I attempted to
make my way there it was evident it was going to be
"challenging" (as you put it) so I had no choice but to attempt
to chance going to the outskirts where I knew at least food and
water could be obtained.
Again you mention over abundance and resources...... if the map
is infinite the loot will always be over abundant.
Which brings me to another thought... why did you want Army
bases in the game when the ammo boxes were already spawning in
the Police Stations? Isnt that more or less creating an over
abundance of loot (or chance there of?). (I think it was you
that supported it)
What I see happening is someone that plays a lot will ALWAYs get
the upper hand in loot. That as I stated before is not good for
the life of a server.
#Post#: 2013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Aknot
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is a copy and paste from Reddit that kind of sums it all
up..... referring to PvP Rust and 7 days....
Your one exciting experience in a city was from inexperience.
You went to a city with nothing. Once you learn the game better
you wouldn't do that. If you had just made a simple crossbow and
some wood frames you could have scaled to the top of any of the
buildings and used the crossbow that shoots like a railgun to
kill those players. Those other players shooting each other in a
city was also from inexperience as neither needed anything the
other had.
Also I know it's easy to let the imagination go wild with
speculation but none of those imagined scenarios would happen.
There are no secrets in a game where anyone can clip through the
world to see underground bases and passages. Fortresses are fun
to build but offer nothing worth fighting over. Any "excitement"
that might be had as PvP surely is quick to fade when you come
to the realization that weapons are infinite, ammo is infinite,
resources for building are infinite, food and drink are
infinite, and the world itself is infinite. If all I wanted to
do was fight other players in this game it would be incredible
shallow. No reason to build since I'd be ignoring zombie. No
reason to fight since the only things I need is a crossbow and
crossbow bolts and food I can get from killing animals and
cooking them quickly on an easily made campfire in the open.
In truth there is zero reason to fight other players in this
game as it is currently designed but that makes sense as coop is
the design goal. If you run across another player and kill them,
you are doing it for no reason other than grief or self-defense
from a griefer. You don't need anything the other players have
and they don't need anything you have. It's a crafting game and
working with others to craft bigger things is interesting but
otherwise injecting PvP into that dynamic makes no sense. It's
also a bit asymmetric when you think about as someone can spend
5 hours building something that you can spend 15 minutes
destroying. Does that sound interesting? Maybe to the sadist,
but not to the person who was just playing the game as intended
(tower defense vs a zombie threat).
I do think there is a compelling case that the tech in this game
can make an interesting PvP game and the devs have described
some of their ideas for PvP. But there needs to be a different
game mode to make it competitive and to give an actual reason to
want to engage other players. They have not given much details
on how they plan to implement PvP other than you'll be able to
play as a human, bandit, or zombie.
Rust on the other hand is being crafted for PvP and if you were
mostly interested in a fun PvP game Rust will likely have a more
complete experience than 7DTD. The Rust experimental branch is
trying to do more with crafting and such. But that game, like
7DTD is a long long ways from finished. But again Rust is a PvP
game and 7DTD is a coop game currently. Trying to coop in Rust
is a huge disappointment. Trying to PvP in 7DTD is also a
disappointment.
#Post#: 2014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Spider
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"Honestly I dont think any new player can run into the city. The
Police Spitters alone would take care of that. If someone is
getting into the Police Station (or high rise for that matter)
with a stone axe more power to them."
*The City is the first place I look for and loot, as you
obviously tried to do too.
"I was in the desert to start and as soon as I spawned I
crouched as It was night. Then came the spawning. They were all
around me. I wasnt even near the destroyed biome. As I attempted
to make my way there it was evident it was going to be
"challenging" (as you put it) so I had no choice but to attempt
to chance going to the outskirts where I knew at least food and
water could be obtained. "
*As far as I know it has always been game mechanics that spawn
zombies around you when you log in especially the first time you
log in.
"Again you mention over abundance and resources...... if the map
is infinite the loot will always be over abundant. "
*Not overabundant but yes loot is also infinite (which is one of
the reasons respawning loot is redundant) with these changes
loot will be equal to the work you put into getting it. This is
not the case with respawning loot.
"Which brings me to another thought... why did you want Army
bases in the game when the ammo boxes were already spawning in
the Police Stations? Isnt that more or less creating an over
abundance of loot (or chance there of?). (I think it was you
that supported it)"
*I was lobbing for Army bases in 9.1 when Police Stations did
not have ammo crates. They do now that is why I have not
bothered Mad with fixing the code. We have a plethora of ammo
boxes in the City’s now.
"What I see happening is someone that plays a lot will ALWAYs
get the upper hand in loot. That as I stated before is not good
for the life of a server."
*Shouldn’t the person that plays more have more? Do you really
want to play a game where you play for hours and a person logs
on a few minutes and is your equal? The only games like this
that are not that way make you pay money to have more instead of
time. At least with these settings loot equals the work you put
into getting it and you can’t just log on every day and get free
loot without work.
**Loot = Work - Good
**Loot= No Work - Bad
Like I said I’m done debating this issue with you Aknot you are
a self-described PVE Carbear who is debating the best setting on
a PVP sever and have been closed minded on any way of playing
but your own during this whole debate. I am just reporting the
game play I experienced while testing the game with different
setting on the test server.
#Post#: 2015--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Madman
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That is an interesting Reddit post. While I agree with the
overall thoughts expressed, I disagree that there can be no good
reason for PVP in 7dtd. Even if it was only PVP for an air drop,
the chance that it might carry a keystone is a good reason
alone. I also don't think PVP is only for griefing either as it
adds to your player kill stats which if you have a competitive
spirit like most people that is important as well. I don't think
it should be the main focus of the game but because the AI is
not very intelligent yet, it adds suspense and thrill to the
gameplay to know in the back of your mind that you may be being
stalked and possibly killed as you you traverse through the
world. It's all about having fun in the end. There is no right
or wrong.
#Post#: 2016--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Spider
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aknot link ---
>
> Here is a copy and paste from Reddit that kind of sums it all
up..... referring to PvP Rust and 7 days....
>
> Your one exciting experience in a city was from inexperience.
You went to a city with nothing. Once you learn the game better
you wouldn't do that. If you had just made a simple crossbow and
some wood frames you could have scaled to the top of any of the
buildings and used the crossbow that shoots like a railgun to
kill those players. Those other players shooting each other in a
city was also from inexperience as neither needed anything the
other had.
>
> Also I know it's easy to let the imagination go wild with
speculation but none of those imagined scenarios would happen.
There are no secrets in a game where anyone can clip through the
world to see underground bases and passages. Fortresses are fun
to build but offer nothing worth fighting over. Any "excitement"
that might be had as PvP surely is quick to fade when you come
to the realization that weapons are infinite, ammo is infinite,
resources for building are infinite, food and drink are
infinite, and the world itself is infinite. If all I wanted to
do was fight other players in this game it would be incredible
shallow. No reason to build since I'd be ignoring zombie. No
reason to fight since the only things I need is a crossbow and
crossbow bolts and food I can get from killing animals and
cooking them quickly on an easily made campfire in the open.
>
> In truth there is zero reason to fight other players in this
game as it is currently designed but that makes sense as coop is
the design goal. If you run across another player and kill them,
you are doing it for no reason other than grief or self-defense
from a griefer. You don't need anything the other players have
and they don't need anything you have. It's a crafting game and
working with others to craft bigger things is interesting but
otherwise injecting PvP into that dynamic makes no sense. It's
also a bit asymmetric when you think about as someone can spend
5 hours building something that you can spend 15 minutes
destroying. Does that sound interesting? Maybe to the sadist,
but not to the person who was just playing the game as intended
(tower defense vs a zombie threat).
>
> I do think there is a compelling case that the tech in this
game can make an interesting PvP game and the devs have
described some of their ideas for PvP. But there needs to be a
different game mode to make it competitive and to give an actual
reason to want to engage other players. They have not given much
details on how they plan to implement PvP other than you'll be
able to play as a human, bandit, or zombie.
>
> Rust on the other hand is being crafted for PvP and if you
were mostly interested in a fun PvP game Rust will likely have a
more complete experience than 7DTD. The Rust experimental branch
is trying to do more with crafting and such. But that game, like
7DTD is a long long ways from finished. But again Rust is a PvP
game and 7DTD is a coop game currently. Trying to coop in Rust
is a huge disappointment. Trying to PvP in 7DTD is also a
disappointment.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes Aknot we are all highly aware that you are on a clearly
started PVP server and do not like PVP and are doing everything
in your power to make the server change to suit your PVE play
style.
#Post#: 2017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Spider
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Supposed to say “clearly stated PVP” Damn spellcheck gets me
again.
#Post#: 2018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: The3rdMan
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to make a couple of points:
The loot re-spawn is turned to 99 days making it "off"
especially since I expect I will have to update the server
eventually.
Zombies are currently set at 125%, so zombies and game spawn
more frequently.
We did not start together, we all had to start out on our own.
Only later did I and Spider hook up, and only later did Soup,
and 2 absurd catch up with us. Up until our attempted foray in
the city, Spider and I both had zero deaths. Took some
scrambling to come up with effective strategies to deal with the
zombie populace.
A world has infinite resources, and an area does not.
I am not a masochist - Dying in a video game means I need to try
harder.
I am not a Sadist - I always have a reason for taking out
another player in PvP...it wasn't just to watch them die.
In my experience 7DTD isn't about PvP necessarily, it's about
survival. PvP in this game is one aspect of survival. Hence
my current player kill count in MM's server is zero.
I'm hoping that the 9.2 addition comes out soon cause I am
excited to see how this works with the additional changes on the
Kamcraft server.
#Post#: 2020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
DIR By: Aknot
Date: September 4, 2014, 8:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
1. I did NOT try to go into the city. I never said I tried to go
into the city. Going into the city is certain death with a stone
axe. I said I stayed on the outskirts of the biome.
2. Possibly but I think it also has something to do with how
many people are on. Meaning if 5 people are on and established
and I log on the Z population in my area may be thinner. At
least that is my experience on MMs server. However I have never
entered MMs server and Zs pop like they did on this one.
3. If loot is infinite (never ending) it means it is over
abundant. There is no work to be put in. I can just wander
forever amassing loot til I cant carry anymore. EVEN with no
respawn.
4. Roger that on the Ammo crates. I was not fortunate enough to
get into a city before 9.2 hit. See #1.
5. A resounding NO especially when is at the expense of what the
game is portraying. The game is a COOP SURVIVAL game. So when
you attempt to change the workings of the set parameters you
create a lopsided server. Especially when items dont respawn and
those that can only play shorter hours cant get a foothold. You
(or MM since he will be the ultimate deciding factor) will chase
people away. So essentially when you attempt to make something
it is not you change the overall.... when you start making it
even more not what it is it happens ten fold.
For example... the game is NOT a PvP game. Yet you can kind of
make it PvP. Once you start making rules/changes that make it
more PvP it is more difficult. So now if you make it where it is
impossible for the 'casual' players to get a foothold because
the loot respawn is taken away you start to lose the players
that are casual. If that is the path so be it. Im just letting
you know.
6. Sure Spider. Whatever you say. I dont recall you ever saying
you were done.... at least you diodnt shout in all caps.
Understand the game as it was created (so far) not as you want
it to be when it is not.
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