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       #Post#: 2007--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Aknot
       Date: September 4, 2014, 7:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Spider link ---
       >
       > LOL  The Zombies are on lower settings than what they are on
       Mads, only thing changed is some of the loot settings.
       >
       > o and we have been playing a couple of RL days and have only
       died like once each when we tried to enter the city.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Again maybe it is different when there are more people on and 3
       people are working together. However as you notice in most of my
       posts and some of others we are concerned about the single
       player.
       No doubt you will come back stating how you solo survived and
       how well you can play the game at these challenging settings. I
       say good for you. Its something you like.
       Me we will see however if MMs server turns out anything like I
       expect I probably wont stay around.
       For the record I was forced towards the outskirts of the biome
       as that is the best chance to get food/water. I wasnt even
       coming close (that I could tell) to the city. I was trying to
       bounce back and forth between the plains biome (safer? HA!) to
       the destroyed biome.
       #Post#: 2008--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Spider
       Date: September 4, 2014, 7:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ya we didn’t even get to see the city sky line either. We died
       just inside the destroyed zone too. We were unprepared. The game
       difference is the starting with nothing and the constant stress
       to survive because of it. I personally like that new players
       can’t run straight into the destroyed Biome and grab high end
       loot in the first game day. The settings we are trying are
       slowing down getting to that spot where you can go anywhere and
       loot anything anytime you want without stress or danger
       (boring). Logging back on and not finding extra bounce loot in
       the house you just looted before you logged out is really
       helping to stretch out the interesting game play and slow down
       the overabundance of resources.
       #Post#: 2009--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Aknot
       Date: September 4, 2014, 7:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Honestly I dont think any new player can run into the city. The
       Police Spitters alone would take care of that. If someone is
       getting into the Police Station (or high rise for that matter)
       with a stone axe more power to them.
       However I think you are over stating/over exaggerating that a
       new player can walk into the city/destroyed biome and grab high
       end loot.
       I was in the desert to start and as soon as I spawned I crouched
       as It was night. Then came the spawning. They were all around
       me. I wasnt even near the destroyed biome. As I attempted to
       make my way there it was evident it was going to be
       "challenging" (as you put it) so I had no choice but to attempt
       to chance going to the outskirts where I knew at least food and
       water could be obtained.
       Again you mention over abundance and resources...... if the map
       is infinite the loot will always be over abundant.
       Which brings me to another thought... why did you want Army
       bases in the game when the ammo boxes were already spawning in
       the Police Stations? Isnt that more or less creating an over
       abundance of loot (or chance there of?). (I think it was you
       that supported it)
       What I see happening is someone that plays a lot will ALWAYs get
       the upper hand in loot. That as I stated before is not good for
       the life of a server.
       #Post#: 2013--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Aknot
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Here is a copy and paste from Reddit that kind of sums it all
       up..... referring to PvP Rust and 7 days....
       Your one exciting experience in a city was from inexperience.
       You went to a city with nothing. Once you learn the game better
       you wouldn't do that. If you had just made a simple crossbow and
       some wood frames you could have scaled to the top of any of the
       buildings and used the crossbow that shoots like a railgun to
       kill those players. Those other players shooting each other in a
       city was also from inexperience as neither needed anything the
       other had.
       Also I know it's easy to let the imagination go wild with
       speculation but none of those imagined scenarios would happen.
       There are no secrets in a game where anyone can clip through the
       world to see underground bases and passages. Fortresses are fun
       to build but offer nothing worth fighting over. Any "excitement"
       that might be had as PvP surely is quick to fade when you come
       to the realization that weapons are infinite, ammo is infinite,
       resources for building are infinite, food and drink are
       infinite, and the world itself is infinite. If all I wanted to
       do was fight other players in this game it would be incredible
       shallow. No reason to build since I'd be ignoring zombie. No
       reason to fight since the only things I need is a crossbow and
       crossbow bolts and food I can get from killing animals and
       cooking them quickly on an easily made campfire in the open.
       In truth there is zero reason to fight other players in this
       game as it is currently designed but that makes sense as coop is
       the design goal. If you run across another player and kill them,
       you are doing it for no reason other than grief or self-defense
       from a griefer. You don't need anything the other players have
       and they don't need anything you have. It's a crafting game and
       working with others to craft bigger things is interesting but
       otherwise injecting PvP into that dynamic makes no sense. It's
       also a bit asymmetric when you think about as someone can spend
       5 hours building something that you can spend 15 minutes
       destroying. Does that sound interesting? Maybe to the sadist,
       but not to the person who was just playing the game as intended
       (tower defense vs a zombie threat).
       I do think there is a compelling case that the tech in this game
       can make an interesting PvP game and the devs have described
       some of their ideas for PvP. But there needs to be a different
       game mode to make it competitive and to give an actual reason to
       want to engage other players. They have not given much details
       on how they plan to implement PvP other than you'll be able to
       play as a human, bandit, or zombie.
       Rust on the other hand is being crafted for PvP and if you were
       mostly interested in a fun PvP game Rust will likely have a more
       complete experience than 7DTD. The Rust experimental branch is
       trying to do more with crafting and such. But that game, like
       7DTD is a long long ways from finished. But again Rust is a PvP
       game and 7DTD is a coop game currently. Trying to coop in Rust
       is a huge disappointment. Trying to PvP in 7DTD is also a
       disappointment.
       #Post#: 2014--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Spider
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "Honestly I dont think any new player can run into the city. The
       Police Spitters alone would take care of that. If someone is
       getting into the Police Station (or high rise for that matter)
       with a stone axe more power to them."
       *The City is the first place I look for and loot, as you
       obviously tried to do too.
       "I was in the desert to start and as soon as I spawned I
       crouched as It was night. Then came the spawning. They were all
       around me. I wasnt even near the destroyed biome. As I attempted
       to make my way there it was evident it was going to be
       "challenging" (as you put it) so I had no choice but to attempt
       to chance going to the outskirts where I knew at least food and
       water could be obtained. "
       *As far as I know it has always been game mechanics that spawn
       zombies around you when you log in especially the first time you
       log in.
       "Again you mention over abundance and resources...... if the map
       is infinite the loot will always be over abundant. "
       *Not overabundant but yes loot is also infinite (which is one of
       the reasons respawning loot is redundant) with these changes
       loot will be equal to the work you put into getting it. This is
       not the case with respawning loot.
       "Which brings me to another thought... why did you want Army
       bases in the game when the ammo boxes were already spawning in
       the Police Stations? Isnt that more or less creating an over
       abundance of loot (or chance there of?). (I think it was you
       that supported it)"
       *I was lobbing for Army bases in 9.1 when Police Stations did
       not have ammo crates. They do now that is why I have not
       bothered Mad with fixing the code. We have a plethora of ammo
       boxes in the City’s now.
       "What I see happening is someone that plays a lot will ALWAYs
       get the upper hand in loot. That as I stated before is not good
       for the life of a server."
       *Shouldn’t the person that plays more have more? Do you really
       want to play a game where you play for hours and a person logs
       on a few minutes and is your equal? The only games like this
       that are not that way make you pay money to have more instead of
       time. At least with these settings loot equals the work you put
       into getting it and you can’t just log on every day and get free
       loot without work.
       **Loot = Work - Good
       **Loot= No Work - Bad
       Like I said I’m done debating this issue with you Aknot you are
       a self-described PVE Carbear who is debating the best setting on
       a PVP sever and have been closed minded on any way of playing
       but your own during this whole debate. I am just reporting the
       game play I experienced while testing the game with different
       setting on the test server.
       #Post#: 2015--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Madman
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       That is an interesting Reddit post. While I agree with the
       overall thoughts expressed, I disagree that there can be no good
       reason for PVP in 7dtd. Even if it was only PVP for an air drop,
       the chance that it might carry a keystone is a good reason
       alone. I also don't think PVP is only for griefing either as it
       adds to your player kill stats which if you have a competitive
       spirit like most people that is important as well. I don't think
       it should be the main focus of the game but because the AI is
       not very intelligent yet, it adds suspense and thrill to the
       gameplay to know in the back of your mind that you may be being
       stalked and possibly killed as you you traverse through the
       world. It's all about having fun in the end. There is no right
       or wrong.
       #Post#: 2016--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Spider
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Aknot link ---
       >
       > Here is a copy and paste from Reddit that kind of sums it all
       up..... referring to PvP Rust and 7 days....
       >
       > Your one exciting experience in a city was from inexperience.
       You went to a city with nothing. Once you learn the game better
       you wouldn't do that. If you had just made a simple crossbow and
       some wood frames you could have scaled to the top of any of the
       buildings and used the crossbow that shoots like a railgun to
       kill those players. Those other players shooting each other in a
       city was also from inexperience as neither needed anything the
       other had.
       >
       > Also I know it's easy to let the imagination go wild with
       speculation but none of those imagined scenarios would happen.
       There are no secrets in a game where anyone can clip through the
       world to see underground bases and passages. Fortresses are fun
       to build but offer nothing worth fighting over. Any "excitement"
       that might be had as PvP surely is quick to fade when you come
       to the realization that weapons are infinite, ammo is infinite,
       resources for building are infinite, food and drink are
       infinite, and the world itself is infinite. If all I wanted to
       do was fight other players in this game it would be incredible
       shallow. No reason to build since I'd be ignoring zombie. No
       reason to fight since the only things I need is a crossbow and
       crossbow bolts and food I can get from killing animals and
       cooking them quickly on an easily made campfire in the open.
       >
       > In truth there is zero reason to fight other players in this
       game as it is currently designed but that makes sense as coop is
       the design goal. If you run across another player and kill them,
       you are doing it for no reason other than grief or self-defense
       from a griefer. You don't need anything the other players have
       and they don't need anything you have. It's a crafting game and
       working with others to craft bigger things is interesting but
       otherwise injecting PvP into that dynamic makes no sense. It's
       also a bit asymmetric when you think about as someone can spend
       5 hours building something that you can spend 15 minutes
       destroying. Does that sound interesting? Maybe to the sadist,
       but not to the person who was just playing the game as intended
       (tower defense vs a zombie threat).
       >
       > I do think there is a compelling case that the tech in this
       game can make an interesting PvP game and the devs have
       described some of their ideas for PvP. But there needs to be a
       different game mode to make it competitive and to give an actual
       reason to want to engage other players. They have not given much
       details on how they plan to implement PvP other than you'll be
       able to play as a human, bandit, or zombie.
       >
       > Rust on the other hand is being crafted for PvP and if you
       were mostly interested in a fun PvP game Rust will likely have a
       more complete experience than 7DTD. The Rust experimental branch
       is trying to do more with crafting and such. But that game, like
       7DTD is a long long ways from finished. But again Rust is a PvP
       game and 7DTD is a coop game currently. Trying to coop in Rust
       is a huge disappointment. Trying to PvP in 7DTD is also a
       disappointment.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes Aknot we are all highly aware that you are on a clearly
       started PVP server and do not like PVP and are doing everything
       in your power to make the server change to suit your PVE play
       style.
       #Post#: 2017--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Spider
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Supposed to say “clearly stated PVP”  Damn spellcheck gets me
       again.
       #Post#: 2018--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: The3rdMan
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Just wanted to make a couple of points:
       The loot re-spawn is turned to 99 days making it "off"
       especially since I expect I will have to update the server
       eventually.
       Zombies are currently set at 125%, so zombies and game spawn
       more frequently.
       We did not start together, we all had to start out on our own.
       Only later did I and Spider hook up, and only later did Soup,
       and 2 absurd catch up with us.   Up until our attempted foray in
       the city, Spider and I both had zero deaths.   Took some
       scrambling to come up with effective strategies to deal with the
       zombie populace.
       A world has infinite resources, and an area does not.
       I am not a masochist - Dying in a video game means I need to try
       harder.
       I am not a Sadist - I always have a reason for taking out
       another player in PvP...it wasn't just to watch them die.
       In my experience 7DTD isn't about PvP necessarily, it's about
       survival.  PvP in this game is one aspect of survival.   Hence
       my current player kill count in MM's server is zero.
       I'm hoping that the 9.2 addition comes out soon cause I am
       excited to see how this works with the additional changes on the
       Kamcraft server.
       #Post#: 2020--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
   DIR By: Aknot
       Date: September 4, 2014, 8:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       1. I did NOT try to go into the city. I never said I tried to go
       into the city. Going into the city is certain death with a stone
       axe. I said I stayed on the outskirts of the biome.
       2. Possibly but I think it also has something to do with how
       many people are on.  Meaning if 5 people are on and established
       and I log on the Z population in my area may be thinner. At
       least that is my experience on MMs server.  However I have never
       entered MMs server and Zs pop like they did on this one.
       3. If loot is infinite (never ending) it means it is over
       abundant. There is no work to be put in. I can just wander
       forever amassing loot til I cant carry anymore. EVEN with no
       respawn.
       4. Roger that on the Ammo crates. I was not fortunate enough to
       get into a city before 9.2 hit. See #1.
       5. A resounding NO especially when is at the expense of what the
       game is portraying. The game is a COOP SURVIVAL game. So when
       you attempt to change the workings of the set parameters you
       create a lopsided server. Especially when items dont respawn and
       those that can only play shorter hours cant get a foothold. You
       (or MM since he will be the ultimate deciding factor) will chase
       people away. So essentially when you attempt to make something
       it is not you change the overall.... when you start making it
       even more not what it is it happens ten fold.
       For example... the game is NOT a PvP game. Yet you can kind of
       make it PvP. Once you start making rules/changes that make it
       more PvP it is more difficult. So now if you make it where it is
       impossible for the 'casual' players to get a foothold because
       the loot respawn is taken away you start to lose the players
       that are casual. If that is the path so be it. Im just letting
       you know.
       6. Sure Spider. Whatever you say. I dont recall you ever saying
       you were done.... at least you diodnt shout in all caps.
       Understand the game as it was created (so far) not as you want
       it to be when it is not.
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